• Tens of thousands march in London against coalition's austerity measures
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[QUOTE]Tens of thousands of people marched through central London on Saturday afternoon in protest at austerity measures introduced by the coalition government. The demonstrators gathered before the Houses of Parliament, where they were addressed by speakers, including comedians [URL="http://www.theguardian.com/culture/russell-brand"]Russell Brand[/URL]and Mark Steel.An estimated 50,000 people marched from the BBC's New Broadcasting House in central [URL="http://www.theguardian.com/uk/london"]London[/URL] to Westminster. "The people of this building [the House of Commons] generally speaking do not represent us, they represent their friends in big business. It's time for us to take back our power," said Brand. "This will be a peaceful, effortless, joyful revolution and I'm very grateful to be involved in the People's Assembly." "Power isn't there, it is here, within us," he added. "The revolution that's required isn't a revolution of radical ideas, but the implementation of ideas we already have." A spokesman for the People's Assembly, which organised the march, said the turnout was "testament to the level of anger there is at the moment". People's Assembly spokesman Clare Solomon said: "It is essential for the welfare of millions of people that we stop austerity and halt this coalition government dead in its tracks before it does lasting damage to people's lives and our public services."[/QUOTE] Source: [URL]http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/21/protest-march-austerity-london-russell-brand-peoples-assembly[/URL]
Good luck, you'll need it. They'll pretend to listen then tell you to fuck off again, as like as not.
[QUOTE]"The people of this building [the House of Commons] generally speaking do not represent us, they represent their friends in big business. It's time for us to take back our power," said Brand.[/QUOTE] What a load of shit. Does he know how many MPs work hard for their constituents and genuinely believe that they're helping the country? I can guarantee him it's a large majority. What a cheap trick it is to tell the people that the only reason that they should hate their politicians is a completely unsubstantiated claim that they work for rich. Austerity was necessary to fix the economy and lower public spending, now of course lower public spending benefits the rich but that is only a natural consequence of austerity, not a cause. Besides protesting austerity is a worthless gesture anyway because austerity has worked, look at our economy compared to France for example where their solution was to raise Public Spending and look what happened, even higher unemployment and stagnation. [QUOTE]"This will be a peaceful, effortless, joyful revolution and I'm very grateful to be involved in the People's Assembly."[/QUOTE] Anyone who thinks revolution can be joyful is living a fantasy.
Not surprised Brand is there, he's a nice guy but so full of shit.
Russell Brand is an idiot, why would anyone take him seriously
Cuts to public services and austerity don't lead to economic growth in themselves afaik The economy has improved on paper but the rich are the main ones who seem to have benefited from that so far and the lower classes are still fucked.
Sounds like the 'million man march' to oust the government in DC.
[QUOTE=The mouse;45182711] Anyone who thinks revolution can be joyful is living a fantasy.[/QUOTE] People keep saying this when history has proven them [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvet_Revolution]wrong[/url] (and I am pretty sure that wasn't the only case).
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;45183740]People keep saying this [B]when history has proven them [/B][URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvet_Revolution"][B]wrong[/B][/URL] (and I am pretty sure that wasn't the only case).[/QUOTE] ok [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Revolution[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolution[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_Revolution[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Revolution[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1848[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Revolution[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinhai_Revolution[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Revolution_of_1917[/URL] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Spring[/url] Some of the bloodiest conflicts in history have come from revolutions, sure you can point to a handful of examples that didn't result in outright conflict, but for the most part revolution results in the destruction of a state resulting in conflict and anarchy. Revolution is intrinsically bloody as without a state to restore order there's nothing to stop anyone from trying to seize power and doing anything to maintain it. Anyone who seriously advocates revolution in a liberal democracy is a moron.
Ocuppy London 2014! Only took a couple years to float over there! Probably little will come of this, here in the states the same crap happened and the only thing to come out of it is an executive order and a bill that's DOA in the senate and house
[QUOTE=The mouse;45182711]What a load of shit. Does he know how many MPs work hard for their constituents and genuinely believe that they're helping the country? I can guarantee him it's a large majority. What a cheap trick it is to tell the people that the only reason that they should hate their politicians is a completely unsubstantiated claim that they work for rich. Austerity was necessary to fix the economy and lower public spending, now of course lower public spending benefits the rich but that is only a natural consequence of austerity, not a cause. Besides protesting austerity is a worthless gesture anyway because [b]austerity has worked[/b], look at our economy compared to France for example where their solution was to raise Public Spending and look what happened, even higher unemployment and stagnation. Anyone who thinks revolution can be joyful is living a fantasy.[/QUOTE] ... I think you're the one living in a fantasy land buddy. Sure, some statistics and GDP and all that bullshit look better but those are totally empty measures of anything but how well our countries industries are doing, not how well our people are doing. None of that wealth is trickling down to the people. We're working shittier jobs and getting paid less and in the mean time the public services we rely on since money is scarcer are getting fucked in the ass. Austerity measures only serve to widen the wealth gap. This economic recovery has been embarrassingly slow because of austerity. It's been double dip. At any rate, it's the executive who are the real problem regarding lobbying in this country, not the rest of parliament. As you say, many MPs are honest real humans. Trouble is, the executive sits on parliament and the whips make sure everyone in the majority party (or as is currently the case, parties) votes together on anything the executive tries to pass. In other words, the executive has all the power so that's where corporations will go to lobby. [editline]22nd June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=The mouse;45184106]ok [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Revolution[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolution[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_Revolution[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Revolution[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1848[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Revolution[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinhai_Revolution[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Revolution_of_1917[/URL] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Spring[/url] Some of the bloodiest conflicts in history have come from revolutions, sure you can point to a handful of examples that didn't result in outright conflict, but for the most part revolution results in the destruction of a state resulting in conflict and anarchy. Revolution is intrinsically bloody as without a state to restore order there's nothing to stop anyone from trying to seize power and doing anything to maintain it. Anyone who seriously advocates revolution in a liberal democracy is a moron.[/QUOTE] Calling people morons is a really great way to get your point across well done. You implied that revolutions are always violent. All it takes is one example of a non violent revolution for that not to be true. You were given one. Sure, there's loads of violent bloody conflicts from revolutions, but there have also been non-violent ones.
Maybe some kind of revolution some day, but when we look at what's happening in the world at the moment, 3/4 of our current conflicts were caused by failed or violent revolutions. Egypt, Syria, Ukraine, now Iraq... The list goes on. If by 'revolution' you mean the dictionary sense of a fairly quick transition of power, then maybe the UK could manage it if we were coordinated enough (not bloody likely), but it seems all protests over here end up turning into riots and then the government and media have an excuse to completely ignore the entire issue.
[QUOTE=The mouse;45184106]ok [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Revolution[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolution[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_Revolution[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Revolution[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1848[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Revolution[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinhai_Revolution[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Revolution_of_1917[/URL] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Spring[/url] Some of the bloodiest conflicts in history have come from revolutions, sure you can point to a handful of examples that didn't result in outright conflict, but for the most part revolution results in the destruction of a state resulting in conflict and anarchy. Revolution is intrinsically bloody as without a state to restore order there's nothing to stop anyone from trying to seize power and doing anything to maintain it. Anyone who seriously advocates revolution in a liberal democracy is a moron.[/QUOTE] I don't think you know what some of the basic words you are using mean. For beginners the word "can". I would recommend returning to elementary school.
[QUOTE=CrumbleShake;45184527]... I think you're the one living in a fantasy land buddy. Sure, some statistics and GDP and all that bullshit look better but those are totally empty measures of anything but how well our countries industries are doing, not how well our people are doing. None of that wealth is trickling down to the people. We're working shittier jobs and getting paid less and in the mean time the public services we rely on since money is scarcer are getting fucked in the ass. Austerity measures only serve to widen the wealth gap. This economic recovery has been embarrassingly slow because of austerity. It's been double dip. [/QUOTE] The Rich always recover first, you can't expect everyone to benefit from recovery only a year and a half after the recovery started, give it time. At least people are working, something they didn't have the luxury of only a couple years ago, the most visible sign of the current recovery is the decline in unemployment and wages are increasing inline with inflation, something which people wouldn't have dreamed of until recently. If it weren't for Austerity then taxes would have been higher and people would be earning even less. Stop bitching about rich people as if they're the problem because they're the only ones who are creating jobs and wealth. [QUOTE=CrumbleShake;45184527] Calling people morons is a really great way to get your point across well done. You implied that revolutions are always violent. All it takes is one example of a non violent revolution for that not to be true. You were given one. Sure, there's loads of violent bloody conflicts from revolutions, but there have also been non-violent ones.[/QUOTE] My point is that revolution is intrinsically violent and dangerous and more so I didn't call people who disagreed with me morons, I said that those who want a revolution are morons. Anyone who thinks that this country needs a revolution is a moron, there's no reason for one especially considering the violence and death that one would cause and for what? So that you can overthrow democracy, murder all the rich and make a socialist utopia? The poor and working class do not make up a majority of people in this country, most people are middle class who have a family, a good job and disposable income who are doing perfectly fine and would most certainly not benefit from a revolution. [QUOTE=Awesomecaek;45185028]I don't think you know what some of the basic words you are using mean. For beginners the word "can". I would recommend returning to elementary school.[/QUOTE] My point was that revolutions can be nonviolent the same way that people can survive jumping off a 100ft cliff, 99% of the time you wouldn't bet on it.
[QUOTE=The mouse;45185073] My point was that revolutions can be nonviolent the same way that people can survive jumping off a 100ft cliff, 99% of the time you wouldn't bet on it.[/QUOTE] If that was your point then you are pretty damn shit at conveying your point to the degree you say something else.
[QUOTE=The mouse;45185073]The Rich always recover first, you can't expect everyone to benefit from recovery only a year and a half after the recovery started, give it time. At least people are working, something they didn't have the luxury of only a couple years ago, the most visible sign of the current recovery is the decline in unemployment and wages are increasing inline with inflation, something which people wouldn't have dreamed of until recently. If it weren't for Austerity then taxes would have been higher and people would be earning even less. Stop bitching about rich people as if they're the problem because they're the only ones who are creating jobs and wealth.[/QUOTE] The unemployment numbers are hard to actually judge really because of the massive increase in exploitative zero hour contracts (which the jobcentre penalise people for not applying for now) and "work related activities" mandated by the job centre that are just box ticking training schemes run by private leech organisations. It is hard to tell from the available stats how many people have actually entered regular employment wherein they actually have guaranteed hours and are paid a decent enough amount to survive. Cutting back on public services that could be funded by actually enforcing the taxing of the rich and large corporations properly seems a bit of a farce. Privatising Royal Mail which was actually turning a profit for the taxpayer also seemed a bit of a stupid move. And what about when they finish "marketising" the NHS and turn it over to the US health insurance companies (which many MP's conveniently have shares in)? You forget that a lot of the oh-so-fucking-hallowed rich people only get rich and "create jobs and wealth" because they sponge off of the people beneath them in their businesses. They use their privilege and access to capital to employ them and will often pay them as little as possible (not the actual value of the product of their labour) in order to maximise their own selfish gains and profit.
Austerity has proven to be complete bullshit, but they keep sticking to it even after the economics have been discredited. Why? Because it's not about a healthy economy, it's about hacking away at services to pay for tax cuts for wealthy people (and to satisfy the ideologues who hate the social safety net).
[QUOTE=Complifused;45182811]Russell Brand is an idiot, why would anyone take him seriously[/QUOTE] Russell Brand thinks that young people shouldn't vote because the government doesn't listen to them. Presumably, he also thinks that milk should be kept away from fridges to stop it going off.
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