• Wisconsin Senate Leader Fitzgerald Removes Representation Of 2.2 Million American Votes
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[quote]MADISON, Wis. -- The 14 Senate Democrats are back in Wisconsin, but the fight between Republican and Democratic lawmakers is far from over. WisPolitics is reporting that[B] Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald will not allow Senate Democrats to vote during committee hearings.[/B] After leaving the state three weeks ago to stall a vote on Gov. Scott Walker's budget repair bill that takes away most collective bargaining rights for most public employees, the 14 Senate Democrats returned to the Capitol this weekend, taking part in a rally on the square that drew an estimated 85,000. "The shots and the photos of those senators at that rally just made me sick to my stomach. I mean, I just think it proves again how out of touch they are with what we went through over the last three weeks here," Fitzgerald said. Fitzgerald wrote in an e-mail Monday afternoon to his caucus that the Senate Democrats remain in contempt of the Senate and their votes in committee will not be counted or recorded despite returning from their out-of-state boycott of the bill. The state Assembly passed the bill Thursday after the state Senate approved it Wednesday without 14 absent Democratic senators. The Democrats left the state to block such a vote, but Republicans revised the bill to circumvent it. Democratic Sen. Fred Risser issued a statement Monday night on the denial of voting rights to Senate Democrats. "Who does Sen. Fitzgerald think he is? Just because his brother is the speaker of the Assembly and his best friend is the governor of Wisconsin does not give him the power to decide who can and cannot vote in the State Senate. His statement that Senate Democrats can no longer vote in committee is the height of arrogance. In my tenure in the legislature, I have never seen any attempt to deny duly elected legislators their right to vote," Risser said in the statement. The Wisconsin AFL-CIO released a statement Monday calling Fitzgerald's move "a new low" that silences 2.2 million Wisconsin residents. [B]"These duly-elected senators represent 150,000 to 175,000 citizens in each district, so the GOP is, in effect, stripping 2.2 million Wisconsinites of their voice in government," [/B]the Wisconsin AFL-CIO said in a statement.[/quote] Here is the letter written by Fitzgerald: [quote]From: Sen.Fitzgerald Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 3:52 PM To: *Legislative Senate Republicans Subject: Senate Democrat voting privileges in standing committees Dear Members, With the return of the Senate Democrats this weekend, questions have arisen regarding Democrat members’ participation in Senate standing committee public hearings and executive sessions. Please note that all 14 Democrat senators are still in contempt of the Senate. Therefore, when taking roll call votes on amendments and bills during executive sessions, [B]Senate Democrats’ votes will not be reflected in the Records of Committee Proceedings or the Senate Journal[/B]. They are free to attend hearings, listen to testimony, debate legislation, introduce amendments, and cast votes to signal their support/opposition, but those [B]votes will not count, and will not be recorded.[/B] If you have any questions, feel free to contact my office. Thank you, Scott Fitzgerald Senate Majority Leader 13th Senate District[/quote] What the fuck America?
Umm, what the hell are they thinking?
Japan gets tsunamis, America gets waves of stupid.
Seriously what the fuck. I don't want to go :tinfoil: here but situation in America [I]seems[/I] to get unstable to me. I am not talking about anything like civil war but even mediocre destabilization can lead to world wide effects. 2011 is so far a fucking scary year.
"America" will continue after these messages
Well hey, that's what happens when you ditch and run to another state.
The fuck is this, a hostile takeover?
[QUOTE=ExplodingGuy;28615528]Well hey, that's what happens when you ditch and run to another state.[/QUOTE] Well, hey it's okay that 2.2 million peoples' voices will not be heard now because Senate Republicans in Wisconsin are being whiny.
Oh for fucks sake. Why aren't people storming the gate and mercing this guy?
[QUOTE=J!NX;28615707]Oh for fucks sake. Why aren't people storming the gate and mercing this guy?[/QUOTE] Because american citizens are really too naive to do anything.
[QUOTE=Esteam;28615742]Because american citizens are really too naive to do anything.[/QUOTE] I'm too lazy/careless. But if I had the chance, I may protest, low chance though. Hypocrit? Maybe.
[QUOTE=imarawrus;28615685]Well, hey it's okay that 2.2 million peoples' voices will not be heard now because Senate Republicans in Wisconsin are being whiny.[/QUOTE] No one ever said that, did they? Just because they did a supposedly noble thing, they still ditched senate without notice, therefore, they get punished for contempt.
[h2]We're fucked.[/h2]
Willful absence in the senate is a pretty big deal, legally. I'm surprised most people didn't know this in the previous topic. [quote][Organization of legislature; quorum; compulsory attendance.] Each house shall be the judge of the elections, returns and qualifications of its own members; and a majority of each shall constitute a quorum to do business, but a smaller number may adjourn from day to day, and may compel the attendance of absent members in such manner and under such penalties as each house may provide.[/quote] [quote]Citing Article IV, §8, the court held "[i]t is the State Senate that must enforce its own rules, if it chooses to do so." Barthel v. Holperin, Case No. 11CV100 (Order, March 2, 2011). All 14 absent Senators are subject to the same Court holding. The Senate has clear legal authority to act to compel the return of its members. The Circuit Court explicitly stated, "‘Each house may determine the rules of its own proceedings...', [b]and may punish for contempt[/b]." In response to a request from the legislature, the Wisconsin Attorney General's Office came to the same conclusion many years ago. "Members of the assembly, regardless of number, in lawful session, can compel attendance of absent members in such manner...as are authorized by the assembly itself." 18 Op. Atty. Gen. 406 (1929)[/quote] I'm not saying it's the right way to go about things but legally it isn't a grey area at all (contempt), I'm unsure if being in contempt takes away your right to vote on bills (THAT might be grey) but they're definitely in contempt.
The reps are just punishing them for holding up their bill and using this as an excuse to get rid of them for awhile.
[QUOTE=ExplodingGuy;28615888]No one ever said that, did they? Just because they did a supposedly noble thing, they still ditched senate without notice, therefore, they get punished for contempt.[/QUOTE] They said that by saying that 14 elected Democratic State Senators votes will hold no sway. The people they represent, those that elected them into office, no longer will have their voice heard. How is that okay? [QUOTE] "These duly-elected senators represent 150,000 to 175,000 citizens in each district, so the GOP is, in effect, stripping 2.2 million Wisconsinites of their voice in government," the Wisconsin AFL-CIO said in a statement.[/QUOTE] So yeah, they kind of did say that, in bold, at the bottom of the article. Unless you are arguing some other point.
[QUOTE=imarawrus;28616087]They said that by saying that 14 elected Democratic State Senators votes will hold no sway. The people they represent, those that elected them into office, no longer will have their voice heard. How is that okay? So yeah, they kind of did say that, in bold, at the bottom of the article. Unless you are arguing some other point.[/QUOTE] I'm arguing whether or not the senators should be punished. It's a serious offense when you just pick up and leave, despite why they left. As far as I'm concerned, the recent events are a complete bastardization of the system. How the Wisconsin Republicans managed to circumvent the legislative process, I'll never know, but it should never have happened.
[QUOTE=ExplodingGuy;28616212]I'm arguing whether or not the senators should be punished. It's a serious offense when you just pick up and leave, despite why they left. As far as I'm concerned, the recent events are a complete bastardization of the system. How the Wisconsin Republicans managed to circumvent the legislative process, I'll never know, but it should never have happened.[/QUOTE] Okay, I understand what your saying. Beyond what sort of repercussions that the Senators should face, I don't believe it's fair to cut out that many peoples' say in what happens in their state capitol. I agree that this ludicrous and as far as I'm concerned I don't think that people are up in arms about this enough. This really a very dangerous example they are setting. It's pretty much made elections pointless. Why cast a ballot at all if the people I vote against will just null the power of those that I voted for? I'm only 19, and this has certainly sullied my opinion of voting at all.
Why vote if your candidate will just runaway to another state after getting into office? If any of these democrats really wanted to represent their constituents, why did they runaway thinking they wouldn't get punished?
[QUOTE=Glaber;28616712]Why vote if your candidate will just runaway to another state after getting into office? If any of these democrats really wanted to represent their constituents, why did they runaway thinking they wouldn't get punished?[/QUOTE] They were representing their constituents by exercising the only legislative power they had left, you fucking idiot.
Were they? What about the stuff that got passed without them even there? Stuff like the measures to get the democrats back or the modification of the bill they ran away from to strip the budgetary parts from it to be able to pass it without them? Where was the representation then? Representation requires attendance.
[QUOTE=Glaber;28616745]Were they? What about the stuff that got passed without them even there? Where was the representation then?[/QUOTE] By taking the only action they had, they were doing a better job of representing the people who voted for them than if they just sat on their hands and allowed the Republicans to pass whatever they want. And now that they're back in the statehouse, they now have zero say or influence in anything and therefore are even less able to get the things their constituencies want.
besides, running away was a decent move politically. It absolves most blame for it from them.
How is voting no "Sitting on their hands"? If they had stayed and voted NO, like they should of, they would still be able to properly represent their constituents. But now they can't. Senators are not exempt from any law or rules set upon them. Their actions have consequences and unfortunately they even affect the Democrats' constituents. If they were really thinking about them, they would not have put themselves in this situation where they have even less of a voice now then they did before they ran away.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;28616782]By taking the only action they had, they were doing a better job of representing the people who voted for them than if they just sat on their hands and allowed the Republicans to pass whatever they want. And now that they're back in the statehouse, they now have zero say or influence in anything and therefore are even less able to get the things their constituencies want.[/QUOTE] Perhaps, they still violated the rules of the senate and perhaps even the law. This isn't like any other job where you can just walk out, it isn't Vietnam. That said if Republicans did this every time a gay marriage, abortion, services etc. vote came up people would be freaking the fuck out and i wouldn't advocate that either. It's a dangerous precedent to set and an exploitation of the quorum requirement. You can hate Republicans all you want and i don't disagree, but this is an entirely separate issue that you're all making a game out of, irresponsibly. [editline]e[/editline] protip: Republicans, third parties everywhere get fucked over all the time as well in legislation. This isn't something new.
[QUOTE=Glaber;28616838]How is voting no "Sitting on their hands"? If they had stayed and voted NO, like they should of, they would still be able to properly represent their constituents. But now they can't. Senators are not exempt from any law or rules set upon them. Their actions have consequences and unfortunately they even affect the Democrats' constituents. If they were really thinking about them, they would not have put themselves in this situation where they have even less of a voice now then they did before they ran away.[/QUOTE] lol You're assuming these Republicans were acting on behalf of their constituents by putting the bill forth in the first place. lol
[QUOTE=Glaber;28616712]Why vote if your candidate will just runaway to another state after getting into office? If any of these democrats really wanted to represent their constituents, why did they runaway thinking they wouldn't get punished?[/QUOTE] Glaber, you're either a completely and utterly incompetent retard who isn't capable of tying his own shoes or you're a willfully ignorant sad and pathetic excuse for an e-politician. Either way you don't seem to have understood the answer to the question you just asked the last fifteen times we answered it for you, and somehow I doubt you'd understand if I answered it for you again. So I'm just going to say this. Don't ask insinuating questions instead of just saying what you think about the matter. I know Glenn Beck does it, but it makes you look like a complete prick.
Glaber, it's pointless to continue posting, you have proven time and time again that you're a brainwashed drone, incapable of rational thought. If you truly believe what you say, then may god have mercy upon your soul.
The counter protesters would indicate yes, they were. If there were no counter protesters supporting walker and his bill, you'd have an argument.
[QUOTE=Glaber;28616838]How is voting no "Sitting on their hands"? If they had stayed and voted NO, like they should of, they would still be able to properly represent their constituents. But now they can't. Senators are not exempt from any law or rules set upon them. Their actions have consequences and unfortunately they even affect the Democrats' constituents. If they were really thinking about them, they would not have put themselves in this situation where they have even less of a voice now then they did before they ran away.[/QUOTE] They left so that the bill could not be voted on. Therefor representing their supporters. The real problem I have here, and I feel you are somewhat avoiding, is the fact that these people no longer have any representation. That is a problem, a [b]HUGE[/b] problem, that I think you would be more concerned about. Republican or Democrat the motions set forth by Senator Fitzgerald are appalling regardless of what the Democratic senators did. Wisconsin's State Senate has essentially become a one-party system. This seizure of power is downright tyrannical, and the fact that you seem to be defending it based on the actions of those Senators is disgusting. They should have resorted to other means to have gotten their points across, but on that logic what the Republicans have done is no better.
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