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[QUOTE][B]EXCLUSIVE/ Two independent sources told EurActiv.com that the US has started transferring nuclear weapons stationed in Turkey to Romania, against the background of worsening relations between Washington and Ankara .[/B]According to one of the sources, the transfer has been very challenging in technical and political terms.“It’s not easy to move 20+ nukes,” said the source, on conditions of anonymity.According to [URL="http://stimson.org/sites/default/files/file-attachments/B61-Life-Extension-Program.pdf"]a recent report by the Simson Center[/URL], since the Cold War, some 50 US tactical nuclear weapons have been stationed at Turkey’s Incirlik air base, approximately 100 kilometres from the Syrian border.During the failed coup in Turkey in July, Incirlik’s power was cut, and the Turkish government prohibited US aircraft from flying in or out. Eventually, the base commander was arrested and implicated in the coup. Whether the US could have maintained control of the weapons in the event of a protracted civil conflict in Turkey is an unanswerable question, the report says.Another source told EurActiv.com that the US-Turkey relations had deteriorated so much following the coup that Washington no longer trusted Ankara to host the weapons. The American weapons are being moved to the Deveselu air base in Romania, the source said.Deveselu, near the city of Caracal, is the new home of the US missile shield, which has infuriated Russia.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/us-moves-nuclear-weapons-from-turkey-to-romania/[/url]
Great, hope the transition goes very smoothly.
thank god, hopefully a clear signal turkey should cut out the nonsense.
Yeah, the further those things are from Erdogan's grasp, the better.
Can we finally boot Turkey out of NATO now?
About time. Romania is a better strategic position for them anyway. It will piss the Russians off however.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50906874]Can we finally boot Turkey out of NATO now?[/QUOTE]
No, Turkish regional location is way too strategically important to them out of NATO. Only way Turkey leaves NATO is if Turkey leaves it voluntarily.
Damn, that's a massive development.
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;50907011]No, Turkish regional location is way too strategically important to them out of NATO. Only way Turkey leaves NATO is if Turkey leaves it voluntarily.[/QUOTE]
Along with their geopolitical importance, they have the second biggest army in NATO, too. Even if you don't want them as your allies, you don't want them aligning towards Russia to any serious extent, plus the mini-skirmishes in the Greek borders will get super serious, fast.
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;50907011]No, Turkish regional location is way too strategically important to them out of NATO. Only way Turkey leaves NATO is if Turkey leaves it voluntarily.[/QUOTE]
Not important enough to waste however many lives it takes to defend Turkey.
[QUOTE=Megadave;50907027]Not important enough to waste however many lives it takes to defend Turkey.[/QUOTE]
Nobody is gonna attack Turkey as long as it is in NATO.
And only Russia is capable to attack Turkey and Russia is far more likely to attack Baltic countries and Poland then Turkey.
Keeping Turkey would stretch think Russia's front lines and limited war industry significantly. That is if there is hypothetical war with Russia and nobody is mad enough to use nukes.
And if Turkey is out of NATO, not only is there danger for Mediterranean to be contested with Russian navy, but also it would create a massive Greek-Turkish territorial crisis that can easily escalate into a war.
Turkey staying in NATO is an only good option, regardless how much Erdogan pisses you people off.
Man, the world is like one giant Risk or Civ game.
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;50907011]No, Turkish regional location is way too strategically important to them out of NATO. Only way Turkey leaves NATO is if Turkey leaves it voluntarily.[/QUOTE]
And if Turkey goes further down the authoritarian shitter and/or starts attacking countries?
[QUOTE=Talishmar;50907250]And if Turkey goes further down the authoritarian shitter and/or starts attacking countries?[/QUOTE]
I don't think that we should keep supporting Turkey if they start attacking neutral countries, but to be fair, they can't drag us into a war unless they are attacked first.
[QUOTE=Talishmar;50907250]And if Turkey goes further down the authoritarian shitter and/or starts attacking countries?[/QUOTE]
NATO is a defensive alliance. If Turkey attacks another country then the rest of NATO is not obligated to help. The authoritarian angle is a justification to boot a country out, but will NATO do it?
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;50907038]
Turkey staying in NATO is an only good option, regardless how much Erdogan pisses you people off.[/QUOTE]
nope
A good option would be a successful secularist coup or revolution that doesn't escalate to an all out civil war between secularists and islamists, but removes Turdogan from power (or even better, existence) and replaces him with a sane person that wants to eradicate ISIS instead of the Kurds
That way there would be no need to kick Turkey out of NATO since it would have a fighting chance of becoming a civilized western democracy instead of sliding further down the slope of becoming a goddamn islamic authoritarian shithole run by an ISIS-loving reincarnation of the Führer himself
[QUOTE=Talishmar;50907250]And if Turkey goes further down the authoritarian shitter and/or starts attacking countries?[/QUOTE]
Only if they attack another NATO member would NATO itself be forced to do something
[editline]18th August 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=DudesonFan;50907298]
A good option would be a successful secularist coup or revolution that doesn't escalate to an all out civil war between secularists and islamists,[/QUOTE]
Best of fucking luck to whoever attempts that
If this means that the US will send even more troops and equipment here, then hooray!
[QUOTE=DudesonFan;50907298]nope
A good option would be a successful secularist coup or revolution[/QUOTE]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Turkish_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat#Result[/url]
What could possibly go wrong?
authoritarianism has hardly stopped countries from being in NATO
Portugal was right-wing authoritarian and a founding member of NATO
Greece had a military junta from 67 to 74 but was not kicked out of NATO
it's not exactly the cold war anymore and NATO is not an anti-communist alliance anymore but the history is still there
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;50907325]authoritarianism has hardly stopped countries from being in NATO
Portugal was right-wing authoritarian and a founding member of NATO
Greece had a military junta from 67 to 74 but was not kicked out of NATO
it's not exactly the cold war anymore and NATO is not an anti-communist alliance anymore but the history is still there[/QUOTE]
Spain didn't join Nato until 1982.
[QUOTE=download;50907338]Spain didn't join Nato until 1982.[/QUOTE]
yeah, I forgot they joined so late and fixed it immediately
-holy shit repeating myself-
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;50907325]authoritarianism has hardly stopped countries from being in NATO
Portugal was right-wing authoritarian and a founding member of NATO
Greece had a military junta from 67 to 74 but was not kicked out of NATO
it's not exactly the cold war anymore and NATO is not an anti-communist alliance anymore but the history is still there[/QUOTE]
Also they didn't mind Portugal, Belgium, and France conducting warfare all over Africa, and literally every single coup that took place in Turkey AND their invasion of Cyprus wasn't enough to eject them out of NATO. They literally fought a war where their enemy was supported quite intensively by a member state, on the front door of UK military facilities whom was also a NATO member.
NATO is a very, very flexible alliance. If shit happens, or if one country wants to change the playing field and considers itself capable enough for it (eg. De Gaulle), it is entirely within its rights to do so.
I'm guessing we'll get a free naval fleet while the nukes are here? Since the previous president sold the one we had at the nearest scrap station :freakout:
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;50907038]Turkey staying in NATO is an only good option, regardless how much Erdogan pisses you people off.[/QUOTE]
A man that must stage a coup against himself in order to gain more power makes for a terrible ally
[QUOTE=Talishmar;50907250]And if Turkey goes further down the authoritarian shitter and/or starts attacking countries?[/QUOTE]
First of all, [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_invasion_of_Cyprus"]it already happened[/URL] and NATO didn't care too much.
Second of all, Turkey has no interest to attack any country for sake of territorial expansion in foreseeable future.
Third of all, Turkey was for more authoritarian in past. As well other NATO members Greece and Cyprus has been even worse in past then what Turkey is today with their military junta regimes.
NATO is there to defend against external threats not to meddle into internal alliance politics, unless you're going against alliance's interests as a whole.
[editline]18th August 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Michael haxz;50907387]A man that must stage a coup against himself in order to gain more power makes for a terrible ally[/QUOTE]
Don't spread conspiracy theory. It's universally agreed in international community that this was a real but botched coup.
NATO is a defensive military alliance established basically to keep an eye on Russia. National political posturing doesn't play a huge role in it like it would for the EU, where there needs to be policy agreement for an alliance to work.
If Turkey has guns to fight when a NATO member gets attacked, they won't get booted out. Which is unfortunate, since strict military alliances that ignore human rights abuses and political problems end up tacitly supporting the regimes that illegally arrest thousands of political opponents. We supported the Shah in Iraq even when he wasn't popular - if there starts to be backlash against Erdogan, it'll be followed by anti-western and anti-NATO backlash too. Because it looks like tacit support of their politics if we don't boot them, even though it's strictly military.
Unlikely Turkey will get booted unless Erdogan goes off-the-wall Soviet Russia and tries to eat Greece or something.
[QUOTE=DudesonFan;50907298]nope
A good option would be a successful secularist coup or revolution that doesn't escalate to an all out civil war between secularists and islamists, but removes Turdogan from power (or even better, existence) and replaces him with a sane person that wants to eradicate ISIS instead of the Kurds
That way there would be no need to kick Turkey out of NATO since it would have a fighting chance of becoming a civilized western democracy instead of sliding further down the slope of becoming a goddamn islamic authoritarian shithole run by an ISIS-loving reincarnation of the Führer himself[/QUOTE]
Turkey had have several secular military coups and every time Islamists returned to power only for coup to happen yet again. Every time there was a coup, Turkey and Turkish people had suffered greatly and Islamists were legitimately victims due to them and had grown stronger.
You can not force a nation to be secular if they don't want to, otherwise religious zealots will become more radical and more stronger. That shit needs generations to be build upon.
And no, Turkish government is not ISIS-loving not does it want to eradicate Kurds. They do see PKK, Kurdish Communists, as a bigger threat as they were in war with them for decades. Erdogan is more then happy to help Kurds in Iraq, who are ideologically moderate conservatives and capable to work with Turkish Kurds Social Democrats. But not with PKK, while Syrian Kurds YPG is very close to PKK.
Hell! Erdogan had in past tried to reach political settlement with PKK! But guess what! That secular army that attempted the coup blocked his every peace proposals, because they refuse to deal with PKK and had always desired to reach military victory over PKK.
World doesn't work black and white.
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;50907011]No, Turkish regional location is way too strategically important to them out of NATO. Only way Turkey leaves NATO is if Turkey leaves it voluntarily.[/QUOTE]
It was mostly only strategically useful because it made a good nuclear launching platform against Russia, however if we've found a better country for that I don't see much use in keeping Turkey around, particularly with their rather dodgy reputation and potentially aiding our enemies.
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;50907459]Turkey had have several secular military coups and every time Islamists returned to power only for coup to happen yet again. Every time there was a coup, Turkey and Turkish people had suffered greatly and Islamists were legitimately victims due to them and had grown stronger.
You can not force a nation to be secular if they don't want to, otherwise religious zealots will become more radical and more stronger. That shit needs generations to be build upon.
And no, Turkish government is not ISIS-loving not does it want to eradicate Kurds. They do see PKK, Kurdish Communists, as a bigger threat as they were in war with them for decades. Erdogan is more then happy to help Kurds in Iraq, who are ideologically moderate conservatives and capable to work with Turkish Kurds Social Democrats. But not with PKK, while Syrian Kurds YPG is very close to PKK.
Hell! Erdogan had in past tried to reach political settlement with PKK! But guess what! That secular army that attempted the coup blocked his every peace proposals, because they refuse to deal with PKK and had always desired to reach military victory over PKK.
World doesn't work black and white.[/QUOTE]
If Erdogan is decent he could try not jailing judges and academics for supporting the coup or opposing his rule. That'd be a strong step into convincing me he's not an authoritarian wannabe-dictator.
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