Gorbachev: Crimea referendum corrected a historical mistake
28 replies, posted
[IMG]http://www.themoscowtimes.com/upload/iblock/b61/Gorby.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE]Former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev has defended Russia's takeover of Crimea, saying that the referendum among the peninsula's voters corrected a historical "mistake."
"While Crimea had previously been joined to Ukraine based on the Soviet laws, which means [Communist] party laws, without asking the people, now the people themselves have decided to correct that mistake," Gorbachev said on Monday, Interfax reported.
"This should be celebrated, not sanctioned," he said.
Gorbachev, the recipient of the 1990 Nobel Peace Prize, added that international sanctions — such as those the U.S. and European nations have brought against Russia — would be justified only on "very serious grounds," which he said the takeover of Crimea had failed to provide.
Crimea was part of Russia until Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev handed it over to Ukraine in 1954, in a symbolic gesture that had little significance at the time since both countries were part of the Soviet Union.
In 1991, the leader of the Russian Soviet Republic, Boris Yeltsin, and his counterparts from Ukraine and Belarus signed a deal breaking up the Soviet Union and establishing new independent states. Gorbachev did not participate in the 1991 meeting.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/gorbachev-says-outcome-of-crimea-referendum-corrected-historical-mistake/496386.html[/url]
You have the State of Florida on your forehead. Your argument is invalid.
Looks more like Italy minus Sicily to me.
I see someone squatting and taking a shit :v:
[quote]"While Crimea had previously been joined to Ukraine based on the Soviet laws, which means [Communist] party laws, without asking the people, now the people themselves have decided to correct that mistake,"[/quote]
lmao and 150% of the Russian population voted to elect Putin for this third term in office.
100% legit
I wonder how many other historical mistakes Putin wants to correct
[QUOTE=superdeluxe;44276410]I wonder how many other historical mistakes Putin wants to correct[/QUOTE]
I'm sure to them 1932 was a mistake too, since they only managed to starve out around 6 million Ukrainians.
I don't see why he's wrong?
If the vote is legitimate is dubious, that's for sure, but he's right.
Crimea just shouldn't have become a part of Ukraine, while full of ethnic Russians. Thing is that in Soviet Union it didn't matter whatsoever. It was a gesture, a token. When Russia and Ukraine are two actually separate countries, it's a problem.
Khrushchev's administration imposed the changing of borders on the Crimean people with the iron fist of the Soviet Union. Khrushchev was a Ukrainian. There is more justification for Crimea belonging to Russia, disregarding the referendum as it was basically used as Khrushchev's political toy. The reality is most people in Crimea likely want to reunify.
You're a historical mistake, Mr. Gorbachev
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44276481]You're a historical mistake, Mr. Gorbachev[/QUOTE]
Do you believe the gifting of a region of Russia to Ukraine by Soviet administration was justified?
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;44276428]I don't see why he's wrong?[/QUOTE]
His argument is an endless chain.
Who corrects the historical mistake of deporting hundreds of thousands Crimeans after WW2 and forcefully settling Russians there?
[QUOTE=laserguided;44276488]Do you believe the gifting of a region of Russia to Ukraine by Soviet administration was justified?[/QUOTE]
Yes
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44276499]Yes[/QUOTE]
Why? How are Khrushchev's actions justified.
[QUOTE=laserguided;44276506]Why? How are Khrushchev's actions justified.[/QUOTE]
after a decade or 2 of genocide on the Ukrainians, 'least they can do is give them a chunk of land.
[QUOTE=Explosions;44276366]You have the State of Florida on your forehead. Your argument is invalid.[/QUOTE]
[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foll8sDGq4M&t=0m15s]Obligatory.[/URL]
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;44276514]after a decade or 2 of genocide on the Ukrainians, 'least they can do is give them a chunk of land.[/QUOTE]
Except the Soviet Administration did not recognize any sort of genocide and this gift was essentially meaningless until the collapse of the USSR.
[QUOTE=laserguided;44276506]Why?[/QUOTE]
Giving Crimea to the Ukrainian SSR made more sense because Crimea is connected to mainland Ukraine, it prevents transportation problems which they will now suffer. Crimea isn't a peninsula anymore, it's an island
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44276530]Giving Crimea to the Ukrainian SSR makes more sense because Crimea is connected to mainland Ukraine, it prevents transportation problems which they will now suffer. Crimea isn't a peninsula anymore, it's an island[/QUOTE]
But it was the Soviet Union, beyond political borders it meant essentially nothing.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44276481]You're a historical mistake, Mr. Gorbachev[/QUOTE]
lmao learn history
[QUOTE=NoDachi;44276550]lmao learn history[/QUOTE]
I know all about Gorbachev's history, I grew up in the aftermath of his mess
[QUOTE=laserguided;44276545]But it was the Soviet Union, beyond political borders it meant essentially nothing.[/QUOTE]
They still had to have border patrols and passport checks and all that stuff between Soviet republics. It just made things less messy
A soviet decree on this scale meant essentially nothing at the time due to close integration with Soviet republic's in the USSR. Ukrainian control over the Crimean peninsula is definitely less justified than popular opinion if you take into account the fact that there was no public opinion taken into account as it was a decree from Khrushchev in 1954.
the vote was rigged, [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1376905&p=44268978#post44268978[/url]
but anyway, i still think that russia would've likely won even if the referendum was actually fair with UN oversight and shit.
Russia should be sanctioned for the fashion in which they went about reclaiming Crimea. Whether their cause was right or not, invading a sovereign country should not be left without repercussions.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;44276514]after a decade or 2 of genocide on the Ukrainians, 'least they can do is give them a chunk of land.[/QUOTE]Where have I heard this before...
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44276530] it prevents transportation problems which they will now suffer. Crimea isn't a peninsula anymore, it's an island[/QUOTE]
Which is why Russia will liberate Eastern Ukraine.
[QUOTE=laserguided;44276528]Except the Soviet Administration did not recognize any sort of genocide and this gift was essentially meaningless until the collapse of the USSR.[/QUOTE]
Just because they won't admit to it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
[QUOTE=laserguided;44276456]Khrushchev's administration imposed the changing of borders on the Crimean people with the iron fist of the Soviet Union. Khrushchev was a Ukrainian. There is more justification for Crimea belonging to Russia, disregarding the referendum as it was basically used as Khrushchev's political toy. The reality is most people in Crimea likely want to reunify.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't justify Russia violating Ukrainian sovereignty in a moment of convenience to enforce land cessations at gunpoint.
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