V4 Group Threatens Veto on Brexit Deals That Impact Migration
40 replies, posted
[quote]
Four central European countries are prepared to veto any Brexit deal agreed between the UK and the European Union that restricts their citizens’ rights to live and work in Britain, the prime minister of Slovakia has said.
[/quote]
What a fucking shocker that was huh lads? It's almost as if being nothing but bellends whilst part of a coalition (thanks Farage!), then being incessant cunts whilst threatening to leave a coalition (again, thanks Farage!) would make people we once considered friends not want to give us "the best deals" in our leaving terms.
But hey, what does that matter, we stopped those fucking immigrants! TAKE BACK CONTROLLLL!!!!!
Source: [url]http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/17/eastern-bloc-countries-will-uphold-citizens-rights-to-live-in-uk?CMP=fb_gu[/url]
Why do You constantly yell "Thanks Farage?" It wasn't his arbitrary decision. More, it was democratic choice.
On topic, any details about new possible laws of migration?
[QUOTE=Knurr;51069073]Why do You constantly yell "Thanks Farage?" It wasn't his arbitrary decision. More, it was democratic choice.[/QUOTE]
Farage was elected as an MEP and has done nothing the entire time but antagonise other EU member state representatives or just not turned up at all. Making us look fucking stupid.
That and he was a face of the Leave campaign, who caused this fucking mess in the first place and based the campaign entirely on stretched truths or outright lies about what we can do as a "sovereign" state.
[I]"We give 350m a week to the EU, lets give it to the NHS"[/I]
*Brexit*
[I]"Oh, we never made that claim"[/I]
*one more week*
[I]"Oh by the way, we're cutting the NHS funding even more"[/I]
[QUOTE=Knurr;51069073]Why do You constantly yell "Thanks Farage?" It wasn't his arbitrary decision. More, it was democratic choice.[/QUOTE]
Because it's almost assured that if it weren't for the Leave campaign's lies Brexit wouldn't have passed, considering what a low percentage it passed by.
hold on. they can do that? is this only if we try to stay in the single market without having free movement?
[QUOTE=Turnips5;51069212]hold on. they can do that? is this only if we try to stay in the single market without having free movement?[/QUOTE]
The EU has said multiple times after and before the brexit vote that we would not be allowed to stay in the single market without keeping the EU rules on free movement of workers.
Everyone on the leave side just shrugged it off and said we would be a special case and behold they were full of shit.
[QUOTE=Knurr;51069073]Why do You constantly yell "Thanks Farage?" It wasn't his arbitrary decision. More, it was democratic choice.
On topic, any details about new possible laws of migration?[/QUOTE]
[img]http://news.images.itv.com/image/file/978061/stream_img.jpg[/img]
there are some things that, surprise, are better dealt with by representatives than the public, whose knowledge (that of a layman) is not the same as that of the expert. A referendum as important as this had no business being voted on by the British public and should, in fact, serve as an example of how not to conduct a campaign (incompetence on the Remain side and outright lies on the Leave side.)
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;51069226]The EU has said multiple times after and before the brexit vote that we would not be allowed to stay in the single market without keeping the EU rules on free movement of workers.
Everyone on the leave side just shrugged it off and said we would be a special case and behold they were full of shit.[/QUOTE]
ah okay. so this is what we knew already
please, stop, i can only say "I told you so" so many times in one lifetime
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;51069232][img]http://news.images.itv.com/image/file/978061/stream_img.jpg[/img]
there are some things that, surprise, are better dealt with by representatives than the public, whose knowledge (that of a layman) is not the same as that of the expert. A referendum as important as this had no business being voted on by the British public and should, in fact, serve as an example of how not to conduct a campaign (incompetence on the Remain side and outright lies on the Leave side.)[/QUOTE]
well it should have had a clear plan and a threshhold to show a clear mandate, as it was you can see the government chose leave by leaving the decision up to a simple majority and let the refferendum happen without any sort of actual plan for the brexit
Can I point out that they are threatening a veto over the rights of their citizens that are [B]already in the UK[/B]. Most people expect that the rights of EU citizens in the UK and the rights of UK citizens in the EU to be respected but the details have to be negotiated.
From the BBC article: [QUOTE]At an end of the summit on Friday, Mr Fico said that he and other Central European leaders whose [B]citizens make up much of the EU migrant population in Britain would not let those people become "second class citizens[/B]".
But in the interview with Reuters news agency on Saturday, he went further.
"V4 [Visegrad group] countries will be uncompromising," he said. [B]"Unless we feel a guarantee that these people [existing citzens] are equal, we will veto any agreement between the EU and Britain[/B]."[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37396805[/url]
Why wouldn't they be equal? I mean we're after the same deal for our citizens in Europe so it's kind of silly they'd think that.
The brexit referendum wasn't legally binding, was it? While I agree that the people of the UK should be allowed to make their own decisions regarding them being part of the union, I don't think a plebiscite with such a minuscule difference in votes should motivate an actual implementation of the issue voted for. Especially when it has such massive ramifications.
I'm just dumbfounded by the fact that 50% of votes was the limit, and not a higher number like 60% or 70%. At 50% you'd probably get different results if you conducted the referendum again.
[QUOTE=momoiro;51069402]The brexit referendum wasn't legally binding, was it? While I agree that the people of the UK should be allowed to make their own decisions regarding them being part of the union, I don't think a plebiscite with such a minuscule difference in votes should motivate an actual implementation of the issue voted for. Especially when it has such massive ramifications.
I'm just dumbfounded by the fact that 50% of votes was the limit, and not a higher number like 60% or 70%. At 50% you'd probably get different results if you conducted the referendum again.[/QUOTE]
It would be political suicide for the government not to go ahead with it, even if the vote was close a lot of people within the Tory party support leaving.
[QUOTE=momoiro;51069402]The brexit referendum wasn't legally binding, was it? While I agree that the people of the UK should be allowed to make their own decisions regarding them being part of the union, I don't think a plebiscite with such a minuscule difference in votes should motivate an actual implementation of the issue voted for. Especially when it has such massive ramifications.
I'm just dumbfounded by the fact that 50% of votes was the limit, and not a higher number like 60% or 70%. At 50% you'd probably get different results if you conducted the referendum again.[/QUOTE]
yet another mark against this shit show of a referendum. there was no rule about it saying one side needed a significant majority, just that one side had to have more than the other.
if anything it's a perfect reminder that FPTP is an awful voting system
This basically means that any Non-UK citizen, will need to either gain UK citizenship, work visa or otherwise, or leave, or at least lose access to services that it normally provided to EU citizens. So unless those people do apply to become a UK citizen, and thus, Dual-Citizenship with the EU, then they will be treated as 2nd class, just like how it would be in any other country.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;51069542]This basically means that any Non-UK citizen, will need to either gain UK citizenship, work visa or otherwise, or leave, or at least lose access to services that it normally provided to EU citizens. So unless those people do apply to become a UK citizen, and thus, Dual-Citizenship with the EU, then they will be treated as 2nd class, just like how it would be in any other country.[/QUOTE]
and how is this a good thing in any regard lmfao
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51069568]and how is this a good thing in any regard lmfao[/QUOTE]
It is not nice, but people have to remember, the way this is going, the single market will be out of the question due to immigration controls. The UK needs to be viewed as its own country, that has no links to the EU. Just because you were in the country at the time before the Article 50 was invoked, or after, doesn't mean that you are able to stay in that country or be eligible to receive its benefits.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;51069578]It is not nice, but people have to remember, the way this is going, the single market will be out of the question due to immigration controls. The UK needs to be viewed as its own country, that has no links to the EU. Just because you were in the country at the time before the Article 50 was invoked, or after, doesn't mean that you are able to stay in that country or be eligible to receive its benefits.[/QUOTE]
So you think it's ethical and right that millions of people should be forced to leave the UK? Many of which, sure, aren't UK citizens for a variety of reasons, but have lived there for a long time? Have continued to contribute to society?
Should all the UK people in Europe be kicked out and brought back to the UK as well? I'd love to see what the reaction of Leavers would be to that.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;51069578]It is not nice, but people have to remember, the way this is going, the single market will be out of the question due to immigration controls. The UK needs to be viewed as its own country, that has no links to the EU. Just because you were in the country at the time before the Article 50 was invoked, or after, doesn't mean that you are able to stay in that country or be eligible to receive its benefits.[/QUOTE]
With all due respect, UK was already exempted with a lot of things due to the Lisbona Treaty in 2007.
[QUOTE]United Kingdom opt-out for justice and home affairs[edit]
Under the former third pillar, the Council of Ministers could adopt measures relating to justice and home affairs. These laws did not come within the body of European Community law, and had only the optional jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. The Commission could not bring enforcement action against any member state for failing to implement or for failing to correctly implement third pillar measures.
The UK and Ireland have a flexible opt-out from justice and home affairs measures and could choose to participate in them on a case-by-case basis.
Under the Treaty of Lisbon, the limitations on the powers of the Court of Justice and the Commission would be lifted after a transitional period of five years which expired on 30 November 2014.
In order to avoid submitting to the jurisdiction of the Court of Justice and to enforcement actions by the Commission, the UK negotiated an opt-out which allows them the option of a block withdrawal from all third pillar measures they had previously chosen to participate in.
In October 2012 the UK government announced that it intended to exercise this opt-out and then selectively opt back into certain measures.[52]
The use of this opt-out by the UK will not affect the UK's flexible opt-out from justice and home affairs measures, or Ireland's identical opt-out.[/QUOTE]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lisbon#United_Kingdom_opt-out_for_justice_and_home_affairs[/url]
Also congrats for being a fucking idiot with 0 logic.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - Pascall))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51069586]So you think it's ethical and right that millions of people should be forced to leave the UK? Many of which, sure, aren't UK citizens for a variety of reasons, but have lived there for a long time? Have continued to contribute to society?
Should all the UK people in Europe be kicked out and brought back to the UK as well? I'd love to see what the reaction of Leavers would be to that.[/QUOTE]
The answer is simple, become a United Kingdom citizen, or gain a work visa, etc. You really think the UK is going to make that an impossible challenge? Of course not, like every other country out there, after spending so many years in such a country, usually people become a citizen, to receive its benefits, be able to vote etc.
This is where stuff becomes interesting, because in theory, both the EU and UK should be granting citizenship to citizens in each others areas. Yeah, it becomes a bit of a fuckup, but something that needs to happen should the UK be outside the Single Market/Borders.
[QUOTE={TFS} Rock Su;51069587]Also congrats for being a fucking idiot with 0 logic.[/QUOTE]
Calm down, I don't spend my waking minutes reading EU documentation and clauses. All my points are generalisations to normal countries. So please.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;51069601]The answer is simple, become a United Kingdom citizen, or gain a work visa, etc. You really think the UK is going to make that an impossible challenge? Of course not, like every other country out there, after spending so many years in such a country, usually people become a citizen, to receive its benefits, be able to vote etc.
This is where stuff becomes interesting, because in theory, both the EU and UK should be granting citizenship to citizens in each others areas. Yeah, it becomes a bit of a fuckup, but something that needs to happen should the UK be outside the Single Market/Borders.
[/QUOTE]
But the whole point of EU as a whole is to minimalise documentation and loops etc to bring it into a single standard (with varying degrees of course).
[QUOTE=Boilrig;51069601]The answer is simple, become a United Kingdom citizen, or gain a work visa, etc. You really think the UK is going to make that an impossible challenge? Of course not, like every other country out there, after spending so many years in such a country, usually people become a citizen, to receive its benefits, be able to vote etc.
This is where stuff becomes interesting, because in theory, both the EU and UK should be granting citizenship to citizens in each others areas. Yeah, it becomes a bit of a fuckup, but something that needs to happen should the UK be outside the Single Market/Borders.[/QUOTE]eu migration and [B]ease of access[/B] to work for eu migrants is vital for many aspects of our economy, you say this is where it becomes 'interesting' but what's interesting about it? it's as you said, a fuck up, and needlessly weakens the relations of EU citizens who contribute a huge amount to my country.
"All my points are generalisations to normal countries. "
people actually have to live in the reality that isn't based on generalisations, you've been routinely supporting brexit & basically dismissing the huge negative effects of it while admitting that you don't know much about it, well done.
Awesome, thanks leavers for completely fucking expats like myself. I'd rather be European than British if I can't be both, so all I can hope is that Sweden feels pity for me and offers me citizenship.
[QUOTE=benzi2k7;51069616]eu migration and [B]ease of access[/B] to work for eu migrants is vital for many aspects of our economy, you say this is where it becomes 'interesting' but what's interesting about it? it's as you said, a fuck up, and needlessly weakens the relations of EU citizens who contribute a huge amount to my country.
[/QUOTE]
It is interesting because of where it goes from here, we haven't had the UK leave the EU before. Both sides have goals to achieve, and small factions like the V4 group have even more.
[QUOTE=benzi2k7;51069616]
"All my points are generalisations to normal countries. "
people actually have to live in the reality that isn't based on generalisations, you've been routinely supporting brexit & basically dismissing the huge negative effects of it while admitting that you don't know much about it, well done.[/QUOTE]
Don't mistake my "non reality world of generalisations" for not caring. The task has been set, the UK to exit the EU, and must be achieved, to the standards of the people of the UK.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;51069634]It is interesting because of where it goes from here, we haven't had the UK leave the EU before. Both sides have goals to achieve, and small factions like the V4 group have even more.
Don't mistake my "non reality world of generalisations" for not caring. The task has been set, the UK to exit the EU, and must be achieved, to the standards of the people of the UK.[/QUOTE]you're literally stating the obvious
[editline]18th September 2016[/editline]
me while the NHS collapses: wow this is really interesting, can't wait to read about this in the history books
[QUOTE=benzi2k7;51069636]you're literally stating the obvious
[editline]18th September 2016[/editline]
me while the NHS collapses: wow this is really interesting, can't wait to read about this in the history books[/QUOTE]
What do you want me to reply with? That I feel sorrow or something for those stuck on both sides of the fence and never asked for this?
And to the NHS thing, that is what happens when you use FPTP.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;51069578]It is not nice, but people have to remember, the way this is going, the single market will be out of the question due to immigration controls. The UK needs to be viewed as its own country, that has no links to the EU. [B]Just because you were in the country at the time before the Article 50 was invoked, or after, doesn't mean that you are able to stay in that country or be eligible to receive its benefits[/B].[/QUOTE]
as the son of a dutch immigrant who's lived here 27 years this really, really pisses me off holy shit did you even think before typing this
[B]-edit-[/B]
how can anyone think this is a good thing? how could someone defend this and say "yep! that's how things should be!". and if you start with "oh lol this is the way it's going to be dont be mad :^)" then ima stop you there and ask; when does a person's vote overrule me and my families rights?
[QUOTE=benzi2k7;51069636]you're literally stating the obvious
[editline]18th September 2016[/editline]
me while the NHS collapses: wow this is really interesting, can't wait to read about this in the history books[/QUOTE]
it's interesting for him because he will never have to live with the consequences of this bullshit
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