But it is true.
Stop trying to cover it up Russia.
[quote]Specifically, critics take exception to the depiction of Russian tactics, like sending soldiers into battle without weapons, and shooting retreating soldiers to discourage the practice. Relic claims the depiction is historically accurate, and based on research and testimony from soldiers. But its detractors say that they are too selective, and that it doesn't properly portray the Russian sacrifices that helped curb the Nazi invasion.[/quote]
both of those DO sound historically accurate to me, especially the second one, i remember hearing something like that in high school, but are you just really kidding me? theyre just offended because they want WW2 russia to be shown in a good light, not the truthful light. and even still, its a video game, not a goddamned documentary
[QUOTE=BeardyDuck;41607718]it's a video game[/QUOTE]
Its real life.
[QUOTE=BeardyDuck;41607718]it's a video game[/QUOTE]
Still, many people actually believe that is how the Russians fought and the battles in and around Stalingrad were obviously a big thing for the Russians so it's not surprising that they are upset that they threw it into the game with the claim that's it's historically accurate. Sure it would be "whatever" if it were a bunch of North Americans saying it but it's Russians so it's understandable to be honest.
I'm pretty sure Americans would be upset as well if movies portrayed that half the Americans landed on D-Day with no weapons and the ones that tried to run away were gunned down.
[QUOTE=zombojoe;41607813]Its real life.[/QUOTE]
Occulus Rift does shit to your brain man
Where were these guys when COD 1 was released?
It portrayed the exact same of soldiers being sent in waves at machine gun fire without guns and deserters being shot on sight.
[editline]27th July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=bobsynergy;41607815]I'm pretty sure Americans would be upset as well if movies portrayed that half the Americans landed on D-Day with no weapons and the ones that tried to run away were gunned down.[/QUOTE]
Did that happen in real life?
If not then your comparison makes no sense.
It's a video game that is meant to be humorous. Deal with it.
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;41607887]Where were these guys when COD 1 was released?
It portrayed the exact same of soldiers being sent in waves at machine gun fire without guns and deserters being shot on sight.
[editline]27th July 2013[/editline]
Did that happen in real life?
If not then your comparison makes no sense.[/QUOTE]
Your right it didn't, and that's why the comparison makes perfect sense, the only people that believe it either learned it in their highschool history class (like Furnost) or watched Enemy at the Gates and declared themselves WW2 Historians.
Read the article, even the game director says it is "plausible" not an actual fact. The soviets did not have barely any weapons like high school teachers and enemy at the gate watchers believe and they didn't just start gunning everyone down who didn't retreat, while soldiers were shot it's nothing like how games or movies displayed it.
It makes sense that Russians are annoyed by it considering how big it was for them.
[QUOTE=Aman;41608032]It's a video game that is meant to be [B]humorous[/B]. Deal with it.[/QUOTE]
Have you ever played a CoH game.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;41608247]Have you ever played a CoH game.[/QUOTE]
Uh yes have you?
Maybe not as much in CoH2 cause they toned it down for whatever reason but CoH games have always had a sense of humour to them
[QUOTE=Aman;41608269]Uh yes have you?
Maybe not as much in CoH2 cause they toned it down for whatever reason but CoH games have always had a sense of humour to them[/QUOTE]
You have clearly never played a COH game...
If a game is suppose to represent history, it got to put down what actually happened, the basic truth and facts, not propaganda, no falsifications, just the absolute truth.
No one read the entire article, eh? The critic points out how while some of these things may have happened the game selects all these horrible cases and ramps them up to 11 and it ends up being ridiculous
[quote]"There is nothing wrong with trying to recreate that. It is wrong however to essentially reduce it to the lazy stereotype of German Ubermensch Wehrmacht and SS against the Soviet Horde.
"The Eastern Front was a confrontation of two murderous, totalitarian regimes. The problem is, this brutality gets turned up to eleven and ends up being a parody," he added.[/quote]
From my viewpoint, problem is that the game gives off an impression that the Red Army was largely an armed mob that no real military prowess other than "launching mindless waves at the Germans". While that stereotype is certainly true at times (especially at certain points in the First Period of the war--1941-2), it would be inaccurate and pretty denigrating to portray the Red Army across the entire war with that stereotype.
That sort of image has stayed in Western popular imagination because in historiographical terms our image of the Eastern Front has been from a German-dominated viewpoint, because German memoirs (Manstein, Guderian, von Mellenthin) published during the Cold War that have reinforced that stereotype. Moreover, our Western mindset (I'm generalizing here) prefers to regard the Soviet viewpoint without credibility or at least with askance.
But I won't dive into a rant; I'll let the dean of Eastern Front historians lay out the problems, which are still relevant even after 27 years since publication (it's long, but it's worth it! Give it a read if you want to explore the historiographical issues of the Eastern Front):
[url]http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/documents/e-front.htm[/url]
[QUOTE=bobsynergy;41607815]
I'm pretty sure Americans would be upset as well if movies portrayed that half the Americans landed on D-Day with no weapons and the ones that tried to run away were gunned down.
[/QUOTE]
Aside from the fact that most portrayls of Omaha and Utah show soldiers occasionally losing their weapons, and progressing onto the beach to pickup the weapons of their fallen brothers.
In several cases regarding the airborne drops during Overlord, several soldiers lost their guns... All of which is usually represented in movies lol.
[QUOTE=Terragen;41608505]You have clearly never played a COH game...[/QUOTE]
I think he meant it in this context...
[video=youtube;3azxIAWJdh0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3azxIAWJdh0[/video]
He's partially right, the game can be downright hilarious some times.
[QUOTE=thrawn2787;41609232]No one read the entire article, eh? The critic points out how while some of these things may have happened the game selects all these horrible cases and ramps them up to 11 and it ends up being ridiculous[/QUOTE]
welcome to this age of mainstream video games, Bioshock infinite had this issue with completely over the top unnecessary and really Jarring ultra violence.
and also despite the sense belittlement these people feel this "lazy stereotype" works very well for gameplay balance, without this the lines between Germans and Russians would blur to the point where for practical gameplay purposes they would be the same, so you'd be playing the same army with a skin set, and that's fucking boring.
Anyone who truly believes men were executed en-masse just for retreating is an outright fool.
If what was depicted in the game was true, the Soviet Union would not have won the war. Nobody will fight for a country that is more than willing to slaughter its own men at the mere hint of 'treason'. This nonsense of 'fearing your own country more than you do the enemys' is medieval age horseshit that simply did not apply in the 20th century.
There is not a single shred of evidence, physical or documentational that such things ever occur across all fronts. It is equally as silly to hold the Wehrmacht responsible for the atrocities of the SS. The only 'evidence' Relic could possibly gather were cherry-picked journals from Wehrmacht soldiers. That to me does not count as evidence. Who knows what the horrors of battle do to a mans reasoning and judgement. It may have been foggy, may have rained, they may have been under a heavy artillery barrage, a snow storm could have hit causing him to believe the men attacking his platoon were unarmed. All sorts of things could play a role in clouding his vision and memory, and so journals and hear-say should never be used as basis for historical accuracy.
As to Order 227, I don't believe some threatening letter from a ruler thousands of miles away from the battlefield would make officers kill their own men without batting an eye. Officers were close to their men, they fought side by side, they starved together, and they bled together. A piece of paper does not break that sort of bond.
Essentially, not only is there no evidence for this unfounded, WW2-era Fascist propaganda, it also does not make any logical sense. Relic - like many other Westerner game developers, dived into this project believing they were documenting savages because the media has played an excellent role in falsely-portraying just that, I cannot blame them for this is the environment they grew up in, however this does not make it right nor does it make it historically accurate.
[QUOTE=Melnek;41609631]Anyone who truly believes men were executed en-masse just for retreating is an outright fool.
If what was depicted in the game was true, the Soviet Union would not have won the war. Nobody will fight for a country that is more than willing to slaughter its own men at the mere hint of 'treason'. This nonsense of 'fearing your own country more than you do the enemys' is medieval age horseshit that simply did not apply in the 20th century.
There is not a single shred of evidence, physical or documentational that such things ever occur across all fronts. It is equally as silly to hold the Wehrmacht responsible for the atrocities of the SS. The only 'evidence' Relic could possibly gather were cherry-picked journals from Wehrmacht soldiers. That to me does not count as evidence. Who knows what the horrors of battle do to a mans reasoning and judgement. It may have been foggy, may have rained, they may have been under a heavy artillery barrage, a snow storm could have hit causing him to believe the men attacking his platoon were unarmed. All sorts of things could play a role in clouding his vision and memory, and so journals and hear-say should never be used as basis for historical accuracy.
As to Order 227, I don't believe some threatening letter from a ruler thousands of miles away from the battlefield would make officers kill their own men without batting an eye. Officers were close to their men, they fought side by side, they starved together, and they bled together. A piece of paper does not break that sort of bond.
Essentially, not only is there no evidence for this unfounded, WW2-era Fascist propaganda, it also does not make any logical sense. Relic - like many other Westerner game developers, dived into this project believing they were documenting savages because the media has played an excellent role in falsely-portraying just that, I cannot blame them for this is the environment they grew up in, however this does not make it right nor does it make it historically accurate.[/QUOTE]
No but didn't you read what the game designer said? it was "plausible" so it did happen, not enough proof for you? Listen to any American high school teacher as they show the truth just like the people in this thread claiming that Russia is just throwing a fit because they don't want people to see their atrocities because high school told them Russia was a horrible army. If that's not enough proof for you then I don't know what is you Commie sympathizer. :v:
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;41609430]Aside from the fact that most portrayls of Omaha and Utah show soldiers occasionally losing their weapons, and progressing onto the beach to pickup the weapons of their fallen brothers.
In several cases regarding the airborne drops during Overlord, several soldiers lost their guns... All of which is usually represented in movies lol.[/QUOTE]
Come on man, there is a huge difference between losing your weapon which was given to you and not being given one at all so I don't see what your saying? What your saying makes sense if in media the Russians were given weapons in the first place lol
Like can you guys at least look at this from the Russian point of view? stop with this whole, "lol it did happen why is Russia trying to hide the bad shit they did?" put down your high school history books and think because I assume it's annoying for Russians where one of the worst conflicts in human history that they experienced is portrayed and taught as "lol the Russians had no weapons and shot their own soldiers like maniacs"
The stereotypes are half true. There was a lot of use of numbers and mobs and fear in the Russian Army. This was mostly in the beginning though, when they were completely swamped by Nazi forces. Once the Soviets recouped and began to push back, they were on par with the Germans in terms of supply and tactics.
[QUOTE]reduce it to the lazy stereotype of German Ubermensch Wehrmacht and SS against the Soviet Horde.[/QUOTE]
Not seeing that at all...?
So where were these guys when I was handed just an ammo clip in CoD and marched into battle?
Have the CoH games ever claimed to be 100% historically accurate because I don't think they did.
I'd be offended if they portrayed me as a woman that couldn't hit the ground whilst aiming at it.
[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;41610303]So where were these guys when I was handed just an ammo clip in CoD and marched into battle?
Have the CoH games ever claimed to be 100% historically accurate because I don't think they did.[/QUOTE]
I realized the historical accuracy and authenticity of CoH when my jeep survived an 88mm round from a PaK gun.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;41610527]I realized the historical accuracy and authenticity of CoH when my jeep survived an 88mm round from a PaK gun.[/QUOTE]
you wouldn't believe the shit that actually happened in the war
a T-34 taken out by a rifle grenade
a guy surviving a sniper shot to the head despite a quarter of his brain being blown out
a 37mm PaK gun taking out 6 tanks in rapid succession at close range, 5 of those being T-34s, with the last one being a [b]KV-1[/b]
shooting down low flying aircraft with rifles because the pilot couldn't identify whether those were Russians or Germans walking about and thus was making several low flying runs to try and see, then crashing onto the ground, walking out unscathed, being told by the enemies to go his own way because they didn't feel like shooting the guy
or that lone KV-2 defending a position for an entire day despite being pumped full of holes by 88mm Flak cannons and the constant barrage of smaller AT Guns, only slowing down since it ran out of ammo, but even then, it crushed several of those guns with it's tracks
and that's just shit I've read about
[QUOTE=Mastahamma;41610860]you wouldn't believe the shit that actually happened in the war
a T-34 taken out by a rifle grenade
a guy surviving a sniper shot to the head despite a quarter of his brain being blown out
a 37mm PaK gun taking out 6 tanks in rapid succession at close range, 5 of those being T-34s, with the last one being a [b]KV-1[/b]
shooting down low flying aircraft with rifles because the pilot couldn't identify whether those were Russians or Germans walking about and thus was making several low flying runs to try and see, then crashing onto the ground, walking out unscathed, being told by the enemies to go his own way because they didn't feel like shooting the guy
or that lone KV-2 defending a position for an entire day despite being pumped full of holes by 88mm Flak cannons and the constant barrage of smaller AT Guns, only slowing down since it ran out of ammo, but even then, it crushed several of those guns with it's tracks
and that's just shit I've read about[/QUOTE]
Simo Häyhä's killcount and the fact he got shot in the face.
Audie Murphy. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audie_Murphy#Military_service"]Just Audie Murphy[/URL]
[QUOTE=zombojoe;41607813]Its real life.[/QUOTE]
It's just fantasy.
[QUOTE]Polish tax officer with a degree in ancient history.[/QUOTE]
How exactly does this make him an authority on 20th century Russian tactics and history?
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