• Do you know who James Thomson is? What about James Cameron?
    46 replies, posted
I'm willing to bet that most of you have heard of the latter person, and haven't a clue who the former is. Right now, you're probably Googling his name to check whether or not you've heard of anything he's ever done. When you finish that up, you'll probably realize with some significant embarrassment that you indeed have heard of the accomplishments he's had; and of the significance of his research for the future of medicine. Yet you've heard of a man whose only really notable accomplishment in life is the advancement of an entertainment industry; someone with ideas that go towards an obscenely small niche and don't help on a large scale like that. He may have donated lots of money to organizations, but my point here does not rely on Cameron having done no good for anyone. One has to wonder why society would value an entertainer and promote his celebrity above that of a scientist's, more specifically a scientist whose works have the potential of contributing so much good to humanity. Most of us know who Max Planck and Albert Einstein are, but how many of even us Facepunchers can name both of their respective contributions to their field. How many of you know who developed the first polio vaccine? What about the person behind the MMR vaccine? If more than fifty people on this forum know the answer to the second question, I would be incredibly surprised. Why is it that we have such strong name recognition for people who have honestly contributed comparatively little of value to our society, but we can't be bothered to remember and contemplate the great people who have expanded our world view, who have saved our lives and who have made them more manageable? Is it just too hard to pick up a book and read about these accomplishments? Further, why is it so hard for people to understand what they actually are? I wouldn't expect everyone to know the workings of every discovery, obviously. But to not even have a basic knowledge of how some of our most important tools work (for an example, how many people can tell you how NSAIDs function?) is just hopeless. [b]Edit:[/b] If you're looking up James Thomson, his full name is James Alexander Thomson and he is a cell biologist.
I only know James Cameron from when made that terrible movie about blue people. He's a terrible director
:bravo:
i know about james cameron because his name is plastered on every fucking billboard in a one hundred mile radius of my house that doesn't mean society values him more, it just means his job depends on people knowing who he is and the other's doesn't [editline]5th March 2011[/editline] i mean if you're going to be all angsty be angsty about something with a bit more weight to it, jesus
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;28433597]i know about james cameron because his name is plastered on every fucking billboard in a one hundred mile radius of my house that doesn't mean society values him more, it just means his job depends on people knowing who he is and the other's doesn't[/QUOTE] How else do you determine societal worth if not for celebrity and wealth? These are the things our society rewards our respected figures with, so it would follow that you measure societal respect by using these figures as a benchmark.
OP is James Thomson and is mad no one knows about him. [editline]5th March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Kagrenak;28433609]How else do you determine societal worth if not for celebrity and wealth? These are the things our society rewards our respected figures with, so it would follow that you measure societal respect by using these figures as a benchmark.[/QUOTE] That makes Charlie Sheen one of society's most valuable assets.
[QUOTE=Billiam;28433696]OP is James Thomson and is mad no one knows about him. [editline]5th March 2011[/editline] That makes Charlie Sheen one of society's most valuable assets.[/QUOTE] I said respect/recognition. Clearly that wasn't my point. Also no I'm not James Thomson, but I'm going in to a similar field as he is in. (Stem cell biology/biomedical research in general).
[QUOTE=Billiam;28433696]OP is James Thomson and is mad no one knows about him. [/QUOTE] No, OP is James Cameron trying to distract us from his blue-person cult. [editline]5th March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Kagrenak;28433832] Also no I'm not James Thomson, but I'm going in to a similar field as he is in. (Stem cell biology/biomedical research in general).[/QUOTE] Liar.
[QUOTE=mr apple;28433583]I only know James Cameron from when made that terrible movie about blue people. He's a terrible director[/QUOTE] Let's put that behind us and try to remember Aliens, Terminator, Terminator 2 and the Abyss.
OP has established his superiority to us all.
It is because our society is ass backwards, we value celebrities and people in the media more then those that work hard everyday doing something good that helps all of us. Not just scientists but teachers, doctors, etc. We value those that contribute so little to making our life as a whole much better. This isn't to say that actors aren't important as they do provide entertainment, but we need to look at the people who do a lot for no recognition.
I think the biggest problem here is that most scientists never publicly advertise themselves while celebrities are always out on TV and tabloids and what have you. Not every scientist can be like Sagan, Dawkins, Tyson, and the other "celebrity" scientists that everyone knows and loves (or hates). I'll be honest and say I didn't know who James Thomson was (though I somehow knew he was a biologist). As a (future) Marine Biologist I bet no one here could tell me who Jeremiah Sullivan is. Go ahead and google him, he doesn't even have a wiki. Yet he leads some of the most important textile research for underwater and sporting applications. I too, find it disgusting that general society pays more attention to the actors and celebrities rather then the scientists and Nobel prize winners but that's just how things go. [editline]5th March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Stupideye;28433901]It is because our society is ass backwards, we value celebrities and people in the media more then those that work hard everyday doing something good that helps all of us. Not just scientists but teachers, doctors, etc. We value those that contribute so little to making our life as a whole much better. This isn't to say that actors aren't important as they do provide entertainment, but we need to look at the people who do a lot for no recognition.[/QUOTE] Yes.
[QUOTE=Kagrenak;28433832]I said respect/recognition. Clearly that wasn't my point.[/QUOTE] That's still an awful benchmark for worth of any sorts, why would you judge societal worth based on the public's reaction to a person's actions when you can judge a person's action? Either way, it's unimportant because a person truly working under the interest of society shouldn't be doing it for fame.
[QUOTE=Billiam;28433946]That's still an awful benchmark for worth of any sorts, why would you judge societal worth based on the public's reaction to a person's actions when you can judge a person's action? Either way, it's unimportant because a person truly working under the interest of society shouldn't be doing it for fame.[/QUOTE] This is true but my point is the inverse of that, society should recognize the people behind these achievements. The actions should drive society's approval and recognition.
[QUOTE=Kagrenak;28434010]This is true but my point is the inverse of that, society should recognize the people behind these achievements. The actions should drive society's approval and recognition.[/QUOTE] Why? A celebrity's job is completely dependent on public recognition and reaching far towards as many people as possible. In a scientific community, the general consensus of the public shouldn't matter much because they aren't the experts, so why try to appeal to them?
[QUOTE=Stupideye;28433901]It is because our society is ass backwards, we value celebrities and people in the media more then those that work hard everyday doing something good that helps all of us. Not just scientists but teachers, doctors, etc. We value those that contribute so little to making our life as a whole much better. This isn't to say that actors aren't important as they do provide entertainment, but we need to look at the people who do a lot for no recognition.[/QUOTE] It's not my fault i don't know of him, and i tend to know people who work with/in media because, well, its the media. unless i stop watching TV it would be hard not to know them. OP is doing a good job by informing me of James Thomson.
It's pretty easy to figure why more people know who James Cameron is. It's because James Cameron has produced the first 2 terminator movies which completely changed our perspective of the future and the evolution of robots. More than that, James Cameron has been shown in many videos that were related to Terminator's movie production. It's obvious that more people would know who a tv related person is than about a boring scientist. There are many other great inventors that most of the people don't know about. I bet not even 2% of the people here, know the name of the person that is credited with the invention of the phone for ex...
[QUOTE=Sniping Robot;28434081]It's not my fault i don't know of him, and i tend to know people who work with/in media because, well, its the media. unless i stop watching TV it would be hard not to know them. OP is doing a good job by informing me of James Thomson.[/QUOTE] I'm not trying to say that its our fault at all. I didn't know who James Thomson was myself, and most people don't with good reason. What I'm saying it that the media needs to change it's priorities.
I don't value celebrities more, I just know their names because I hear so much about them in the media. If James Thomson's name was plastered all over the media I'm sure I'd know him too.
It sounds like you are just placing higher emphasis on Thomson because he is idolized in your field. The same perception is generally true of aerospace engineers and the Wright brothers, my own field of study. Don't take this issue to heart. Superficial praise from society is worth little, whereas making a difference in the lives of others is worth all the effort you can muster.
The OP sounds like a pretentious tool.
Furthermore... How do you expect people to determine which accomplishments are the most important? Hell, no one, barring TMZ workers, no all of the celebrities in the world. How do you expect them to know this particular scientist and that particular accomplishment, isn't it enough that the average person knows about Einstein, Fleming, Tesla, and the like? I bet people who actively participate in the scientific community can't name all of the scientists who have ever contributed something substantial. And at what point of understanding is basic understanding of a subject? Is it enough to just say that NSAIDs change body-chemistry? And then you apply this to all fields of work which contribute to society and everyone's fucked. [editline]5th March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Stupideye;28434097]I'm not trying to say that its our fault at all. I didn't know who James Thomson was myself, and most people don't with good reason. What I'm saying it that the media needs to change it's priorities.[/QUOTE] Media is a business, they do what gets the best response from the people. People respond to figures in entertainment because... well... they entertain people.
I thought James Thomson was actor form the ages of black and white films. I voted both the realized my mistake....
I wouldn't know Cameron if I hadn't seen his films. Similarly I usually remember scientists whose books or papers I've read. [editline]5th March 2011[/editline] At first I thought the Thomson in question would be the guy behind the term Thomson scattering. I remembered that his first name started with a J.
The thing which I find unnerving is that Cameron's pay is most likely twenty time higher than that of Thomson, despite the relative contributions to society. Someone who directs shitty movies should never be paid billions when an actual contributor barely breaks 100k.
[QUOTE=mr apple;28433583]I only know James Cameron from when made that terrible movie about blue people. He's a terrible director[/QUOTE] That and he forced Linda Hamilton to take steroids and forced Jessica Alba to stop eating, causing anorexia and the shakes, delaying filming. The trite little shit.
[quote]how many people can tell you how NSAIDs function[/quote] Well for one, I can, and my tertiary studies have no relation to biology. [quote]Why is it that we have such strong name recognition for people who have honestly contributed comparatively little of value to our society, but we can't be bothered to remember and contemplate the great people who have expanded our world view[/quote] Were you born yesterday? Because most people don't need to know 'why' something works, and because Joe Celebrity is in a position Jane Citizen wants to be in (fame, money), but tends to do personally amusing things that they can relate to. tl;dr Our society rewards shit, if you have a problem with that, proclaim that democracy is bullshit because people are too stupid, and install a technocratic government which severely limits the freedoms (read: stupidity) of the majority of its citizens.
People that don't know James Thomson wouldn't know him if they never seen him on TV, or on any of their most visited websites. They know James Cameron because he is mentioned a lot in the media. They can't just gain instant knowledge of someone they aren't psychic.
you and your big words. :saddowns:
Why would a cell biologist be as famous as an big budget film director... Sadly, society doesn't work that way!
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