GOP victory in the midwest: Wisconsin Voter-ID Law Stands as Supreme Court Rejects Appeal - Polidicks

[quote]The U.S. Supreme Court cleared the way for Wisconsin to implement a voter-identification law that opponents say is one of the strictest in the nation. Rejecting without comment an appeal by civil rights groups, the justices Monday gave a victory to Republicans, including Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker, who have championed voter-ID laws around the country. Wisconsin is one of 30 states with ID laws and one of 17 that enacted measures since the Supreme Court upheld an Indiana statute in 2008. [B]Civil rights groups say ID requirements disproportionately affect minority and low-income voters while doing little if anything to protect against fraud. The organizations pressing the Wisconsin appeal said 300,000 registered voters in that state lack a qualifying ID.[/B] "The right to vote is the foundational element of American democracy," the groups argued. [B]"Increasingly restrictive voter ID laws like Wisconsin’s Act 23 unjustifiably burden the voting rights of millions of registered voters, particularly African-Americans and Latinos."[/B] Wisconsin officials led by Walker, a potential presidential candidate, defended the law. They argued that it will impose a minimal burden on voters while providing more assurance of a fraud-free election. "This is great news for Wisconsin voters," Walker said in a statement after the high court acted. "This is a common sense reform that protects the integrity of our voting process, making it easy to vote and hard to cheat." [B]"In Wisconsin, as elsewhere, the overwhelming majority of voters already have qualifying ID," said Wisconsin Attorney General Brad Schimel "For those who lack ID, obtaining one and bringing it to the polling place is generally no more of a burden than the process of voting itself," he argued.[/B] Schimel said in a statement that the voter-ID law won’t take effect for an April 7 election for judicial offices because absentee ballots already have been sent to voters.[/quote] [url]http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-03-23/wisconsin-voter-id-law-stands-as-u-s-high-court-rejects-appeal[/url]

[quote]"For those who lack ID, obtaining one and bringing it to the polling place is generally no more of a burden than the process of voting itself," he argued.[/quote] Doesn't it cost money and require a birth certificate though?

[QUOTE=Helix Snake;47380854]Doesn't it cost money and require a birth certificate though?[/QUOTE] The ID is free. It does require proof of citizenship tho. [url]http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/drivers/apply/idcard.htm[/url] I think voter ID laws are fine. As long as the photo ID is free and the required documents are something you are likely to already have. As you get a birth certificate when your born for free. Its only if you loose it that you have to pay a fee to get a certified copy.

[QUOTE=Kigen;47380895]The ID is free. It does require proof of citizenship tho. [url]http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/drivers/apply/idcard.htm[/url] I think voter ID laws are fine. As long as the photo ID is free and the required documents are something you are likely to already have. As you get a birth certificate when your born for free. Its only if you loose it that you have to pay a fee to get a certified copy.[/QUOTE] IIRC they're only like $15 or $20 for a new copy

If voter id is mandatory, they should be free to get, and not require anything more than proof of citizenship.

Well, say goodbye to anybody but the GOP ever winning in Wisconsin again. Or any other state that passes similar disenfranchisement laws.

[QUOTE=Kigen;47380895]The ID is free. It does require proof of citizenship tho. [url]http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/drivers/apply/idcard.htm[/url] I think voter ID laws are fine. As long as the photo ID is free and the required documents are something you are likely to already have. As you get a birth certificate when your born for free. Its only if you loose it that you have to pay a fee to get a certified copy.[/QUOTE] Voter ID fraud is low.

[QUOTE=Aide;47381366]Voter fraud is low.[/QUOTE] Voter fraud could objectively be proven to be zero percent and I would still support voter ID laws, provided that getting an ID is both easily accessible and free. I find it stupid to not require individuals to identify themselves with any form of real identification before allowing them to vote, instead of simply trusting people with something as important as deciding who will run the country.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;47381310]Well, say goodbye to anybody but the GOP ever winning in Wisconsin again. Or any other state that passes similar disenfranchisement laws.[/QUOTE] I really don't see the problem. Most people already have a valid ID. Those who don't, they are free and simple to get. The only argument against the law that I can see is "some groups of people might not acquire ID cards before voting"... but you already have to register to vote regardless, and you can get your free ID card on that same site. In the end, I fail to see how it is increasing the number of disenfranchised voters. Regardless of how low or high voter fraud is, is there really any disadvantage to the law other than people forgetting to bring their ID cards or something? I feel confused when I read posts arguing against the law, since I really don't see the harm. If they costed or were a difficult process to acquire, I would agree, but as far as I can tell they are simple to get.

[QUOTE=DaMastez;47381401]Voter fraud could objectively be proven to be zero percent and I would still support voter ID laws, provided that getting an ID is both easily accessible and free. I find it stupid to not require individuals to identify themselves with any form of real identification before allowing them to vote, instead of simply trusting people with something as important as deciding who will run the country.[/QUOTE] Ironically, the biggest defense against voter fraud is the simple fact that majority of Americans can't be bothered to vote to begin with.

Honestly, support. I feel as if people who are heavily against voter-ID are simply against it because it puts their party at a disadvantage. When IDs are free and easy to obtain, there shouldn't be reason [B]not[/B] to have one.

[QUOTE=Monkah;47381473]Honestly, support. I feel as if people who are heavily against voter-ID are simply against it because it puts their party at a disadvantage. When IDs are free and easy to obtain, there shouldn't be reason [B]not[/B] to have one.[/QUOTE] If it puts a party at a disadvantage, then that's a legitimate reason to be against it. If it's because they [I]think[/I] it'll put their party at a disadvantage, that's another thing.

[QUOTE=HarryHy;47381426]I really don't see the problem. Most people already have a valid ID. Those who don't, they are free and simple to get. The only argument against the law that I can see is "some groups of people might not acquire ID cards before voting"... but you already have to register to vote regardless, and you can get your free ID card on that same site. In the end, I fail to see how it is increasing the number of disenfranchised voters. Regardless of how low or high voter fraud is, is there really any disadvantage to the law other than people forgetting to bring their ID cards or something? I feel confused when I read posts arguing against the law, since I really don't see the harm. If they costed or were a difficult process to acquire, I would agree, but as far as I can tell they are simple to get.[/QUOTE] [B][url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/10/09/report-voter-id-laws-reduce-turnout-more-among-african-american-and-younger-voters/[/url][/B] Those laws disproportionately depress turnout among minority populations. They have a clear, documented negative effect on some groups more than others. The data very clearly refutes the "Eh, it isn't that hard..." argument. For a lot of people it actually is that hard. Voter fraud is virtually non-existent. It's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist...unless your problem is "Too many poor and black people turn out to vote."

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;47381540][B][url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/10/09/report-voter-id-laws-reduce-turnout-more-among-african-american-and-younger-voters/[/url][/B] Those laws disproportionately depress turnout among minority populations. They have a clear, documented negative effect on some groups more than others. The data very clearly refutes the "Eh, it isn't that hard..." argument. For a lot of people it actually is that hard. Voter fraud is virtually non-existent. It's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist...unless your problem is "Too many poor and black people turn out to vote."[/QUOTE] but from your article [quote]Most states with voter identification laws provide ID cards for free for the purposes of voting[/quote] Seems like it's just select states with trashy ways to go about doing this. Not that I disagree with you; I really don't see the need nor purpose of voter IDs.

[QUOTE=DaMastez;47381401]Voter fraud could objectively be proven to be zero percent and I would still support voter ID laws, provided that getting an ID is both easily accessible and free. I find it stupid to not require individuals to identify themselves with any form of real identification before allowing them to vote, instead of simply trusting people with something as important as deciding who will run the country.[/QUOTE] Insuring against risks that do not exist is the antithesis of fiscal conservatism. Spending money on unnecessary things is bad governance.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47381632]but from your article Seems like it's just select states with trashy ways to go about doing this. Not that I disagree with you; I really don't see the need nor purpose of voter IDs.[/QUOTE] Even if they're free, you still have to go and get one. What if you live on a shitty Indian reservation in Wyoming and the nearest BMV (or wherever they provide those IDs) is 200 miles away? The "What, it's free so what's the problem?" crowd suffers from a simple failure of imagination. They can't wrap their heads around how poor so many people in the US actually are. The kind of poor that makes a trip to the BMV an expensive, herculean task.

[QUOTE=PolarEventide;47381818]Insuring against risks that do not exist is the antithesis of fiscal conservatism. Spending money on unnecessary things is bad governance.[/QUOTE] The risk does exist; the risk will always exist. As in, even if last election there was no voter fraud, that doesn't mean next election there also will be no voter fraud. I just find having absolutely no protection in place against voter fraud (sans relying on people to be honest) to be ridiculous, regardless of if historically voter fraud has been low. Of course, requiring an ID to vote doesn't eliminate the risk of voter fraud either, but it makes it harder than literally walking up and saying "my name is X" to vote as a person. [editline]23rd March 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;47381829]Even if they're free, you still have to go and get one. What if you live on a shitty Indian reservation in Wyoming and the nearest BMV (or wherever they provide those IDs) is 200 miles away? The "What, it's free so what's the problem?" crowd suffers from a simple failure of imagination. They can't wrap their heads around how poor so many people in the US actually are. The kind of poor that makes a trip to the BMV an expensive, herculean task.[/QUOTE] Ideally you should be able to get an ID card (or at least vote) where you go to vote by having the necessary documents, though I suspect there are logistical issues involved with this.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;47381829]Even if they're free, you still have to go and get one. What if you live on a shitty Indian reservation in Wyoming and the nearest BMV (or wherever they provide those IDs) is 200 miles away? The "What, it's free so what's the problem?" crowd suffers from a simple failure of imagination. They can't wrap their heads around how poor so many people in the US actually are. The kind of poor that makes a trip to the BMV an expensive, herculean task.[/QUOTE] If it's that big a distance to travel, odds are they aren't going to make it to the voting booth to begin with :v:

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47381895]If it's that big a distance to travel, odds are they aren't going to make it to the voting booth to begin with :v:[/QUOTE] I have several dirt-poor friends who only have expired IDs. If they wanted to vote, they'd have to take a day off work to go to the DMV, wait 4-6 hours in line (unless they manage to get there at 5-6AM and wait in line until it opens), and then take [I]another[/I] day off work to actually go vote. People camp outside the DMV in chairs with blankets and pillows trying to expedite their license renewals. It's pretty common for government offices and voting places in impoverished areas to be criminally understaffed. If you drove a few towns away from where I live, you can get in and out of the DMV with a fresh ID in maybe an hour. But the people poor enough to not have IDs don't usually have cars. Getting an ID to vote, even if it's free, can cost hundreds of dollars in lost income and other costs. Poor people would rather just save the $100 than spend the time to vote.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;47382125]I have several dirt-poor friends who only have expired IDs. If they wanted to vote, they'd have to take a day off work to go to the DMV, wait 4-6 hours in line (unless they manage to get there at 5-6AM and wait in line until it opens), and then take [I]another[/I] day off work to actually go vote. People camp outside the DMV in chairs with blankets and pillows trying to expedite their license renewals. It's pretty common for government offices and voting places in impoverished areas to be criminally understaffed. If you drove a few towns away from where I live, you can get in and out of the DMV with a fresh ID in maybe an hour. But the people poor enough to not have IDs don't usually have cars. Getting an ID to vote, even if it's free, can cost hundreds of dollars in lost income and other costs. Poor people would rather just save the $100 than spend the time to vote.[/QUOTE] Election Day should be a federal holiday so that people who may otherwise be working have an opportunity to vote.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;47382125]I have several dirt-poor friends who only have expired IDs. If they wanted to vote, they'd have to take a day off work to go to the DMV, wait 4-6 hours in line (unless they manage to get there at 5-6AM and wait in line until it opens), and then take [I]another[/I] day off work to actually go vote. People camp outside the DMV in chairs with blankets and pillows trying to expedite their license renewals. It's pretty common for government offices and voting places in impoverished areas to be criminally understaffed. If you drove a few towns away from where I live, you can get in and out of the DMV with a fresh ID in maybe an hour. But the people poor enough to not have IDs don't usually have cars. Getting an ID to vote, even if it's free, can cost hundreds of dollars in lost income and other costs. Poor people would rather just save the $100 than spend the time to vote.[/QUOTE] You do realize you can get State ID's. Or at least in Pennsylvania you can get State IDs for free at several offices. Maybe its different for other states.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;47381829]Even if they're free, you still have to go and get one. What if you live on a shitty Indian reservation in Wyoming and the nearest BMV (or wherever they provide those IDs) is 200 miles away? The "What, it's free so what's the problem?" crowd suffers from a simple failure of imagination. They can't wrap their heads around how poor so many people in the US actually are. The kind of poor that makes a trip to the BMV an expensive, herculean task.[/QUOTE] If you live on a reservation, can you vote? They're treated as their own nation, for the most part... [editline]23rd March 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=PolarEventide;47382213]Election Day should be a federal holiday so that people who may otherwise be working have an opportunity to vote.[/QUOTE] Doesn't guarantee it. Plenty of places are open on holidays. Public service workers, customer service/sales place.

[QUOTE=Swilly;47382297]You do realize you can get State ID's. Or at least in Pennsylvania you can get State IDs for free at several offices. Maybe its different for other states.[/QUOTE] Can confirm, state IDs are always free.

All of you people supporting this, you're fucking idiots. First off Voter Fraud [url=http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/10/30/debunking-the-conservative-medias-2014-voter-fr/201382]doesn't even really exist[/url]. [url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/08/06/a-comprehensive-investigation-of-voter-impersonation-finds-31-credible-incidents-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/]A total of 31 credible voter fraud cases were found out of a billion cases from 2008-2014[/url]. I don't know about you but 31 cases really doesn't matter in the whole perspective of things. Not to mention we already have laws that heavily discourage voter fraud like having to sign your name at voting booths to prove you haven't voted more than once. Second of all, this is just a tactic by certain political groups to stop people from voting for their opponents. While the IDs are free, factors surrounding them are not. The simple cost of getting transportation to places where they can get one is enough to discourage some people who aren't financially sound. I mean for Christ's sake, the state government of Texas is putting the booths far out from the local urban areas such as Dallas and Austin. Not to mention depending on where you are you may have to wait hours to get one, which means one of these people would have to take off work. And guess which party those financially unsound people vote for? If you guessed the one that doesn't try to screw them over at every possible moment, the Democrats, you guess correctly.

TornadoAP didnt read the thread, just ignore that post. I thought there was a good discussion going on. To piggyback off what Polar said, I think that not only should it be a holiday, but it should be mandatory. Give them an incentive to go vote even if they are uninformed. If you vote, you pay x% less in taxes in your bracket than if you didnt vote. I believe ND has something similar about income tax or something

Voter ID laws are to prevent poor people from voting, p much. The entire voting system exists to get old people to vote, and to prevent young, poor people from voting

[QUOTE=Code3Response;47383877]TornadoAP didnt read the thread, just ignore that post. I thought there was a good discussion going on. To piggyback off what Polar said, I think that not only should it be a holiday, but it should be mandatory. Give them an incentive to go vote even if they are uninformed. If you vote, you pay x% less in taxes in your bracket than if you didnt vote. I believe ND has something similar about income tax or something[/QUOTE] Oh yeah totally. I totally didn't read the entire thread with all the bullshit about just because they are free they are alright. You should totally invalidate my opinion because of that.

[QUOTE=TornadoAP;47384042]Oh yeah totally. I totally didn't read the entire thread with all the bullshit about just because they are free they are alright. You should totally invalidate my opinion because of that.[/QUOTE] The whole "all of you are fucking idiots" pretty much invalidated your opinion.

[QUOTE=Code3Response;47384055]The whole "all of you are fucking idiots" pretty much invalidated your opinion.[/QUOTE] Are you fucking serious? I make one rude comment and suddenly that make my entire opinion completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand? That's some close-mindedness if I've ever seen any. I probably shouldn't have put that comment in at the beginning but you people need a wake up call. These laws aren't about voter fraud, they are about the controlling of voters by political parties.

[QUOTE=TornadoAP;47384062]Are you fucking serious? I make one rude comment and suddenly that make my entire opinion completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand?[/QUOTE] It certainly makes you look like an asshole, and that is going to make people not care what you say because you're going to put them on the defense.