Pope Francis: 'Caring for the poor does not make you a communist'
28 replies, posted
[quote]
Pope Francis has once again rejected claims that his concern for the poor and criticisms of capitalism make him a communist, by declaring that he is merely following the Gospel.
In one his longest speeches as Pope, the Holy See outlined his views on a wide range of issues– from poverty and the injustices of unemployment to the need to protect the environment.
Anticipating how his letter would be received by his critics, Francis declared that “land, housing and work are increasingly unavailable to the majority’ of the world’s population,” but said “If I talk about this, some will think that the Pope is communist.”
"They don't understand that love for the poor is at the centre of the Gospel," he said. "Demanding this isn't unusual, it's the social doctrine of the church."
The address comes after right-wing US commentators said the Pope is a Marxist because he criticised capitalist excess and demanded that governments should redistribute social benefits to the needy. [/Quote]
[url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-caring-for-the-poor-does-not-make-you-a-communist-9828856.html]He's not wrong.[/url]
Sounds like a bunch of red commie crap to me!
"Fuck the poor, as long as the rich get richer." ~ Republican Jesus
Honestly what i like about francis' teachings so much is he actually tries to live jesus' teachings to the best of his ability. I was also raised catholic so i can understand a lot of his mindset on a lot of different issues. He still just seems so genuine and kindly it's really hard not to like him.
best pope/best pope?
Before this guy I was barely aware that there was even a pope; this guy though, I'll remember this guy forever.
[QUOTE]And all who believed were together and had all things in common. And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had.
[B]Acts 2:44-45[/B][/QUOTE]
Damn Commies!
Who actually thinks this? I mean the new pope seems pretty alright to me, but in all honesty does anyone actually believe caring for the poor makes you a communist?
Sadly yes, a lot of people think that. You can't tell them, perhaps pope can though.
[QUOTE=Rossy167;46391017]Who actually thinks this? I mean the new pope seems pretty alright to me, but in all honesty does anyone actually believe caring for the poor makes you a communist?[/QUOTE]
Yes, there exists people who genuinely believe that. You have no idea how much of a baffling amount of mental acrobatics the human mind is capable of.
[QUOTE=Rossy167;46391017]Who actually thinks this? I mean the new pope seems pretty alright to me, but in all honesty does anyone actually believe caring for the poor makes you a communist?[/QUOTE]
It seems ludicrous but when you're born and raised around that shit like I was it does strange things to the mind. Like some guy thought that gays were gonna make god flood the Earth and I didn't think there was anything wrong with that at the time :v:
Thank god for Star Trek and the internet for making me more enlightened.
[QUOTE=Rossy167;46391017]Who actually thinks this? I mean the new pope seems pretty alright to me, but in all honesty does anyone actually believe caring for the poor makes you a communist?[/QUOTE]
Some people think the poor should be helped via charity instead of taxes. Which is stupid IMO because welfare programs are basically institutionalized charity to force less scrupulous members of society to pay for the well-being of all and to make sure people keep supporting the poor even in difficult times (i.e. when the poor need help most.)
this man would disagree
[video=youtube;Q8dDkBxR_T0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8dDkBxR_T0[/video]
[QUOTE] he criticised capitalist excess and demanded that governments should redistribute social benefits to the needy[/QUOTE]
Sounds like a Pinko if I ever heard of one.
The problem is the foremost economists of the current shitty system all spout views that putting any sort of social welfare and sustainability before profit is breaching trust with the shareholders and in turn bad and to be avoided at all costs, and the biggest proponent of this won a Nobel prize for saying that
Although Christianity was the basis for some early socialist experiments and Christian socialism, anarchism, and communism.
Just an aside. caring for the poor doesn't make you a communist, but you can be a communist and be a Christian.
[QUOTE=deltasquid;46390745]"Fuck the poor, as long as the rich get richer." ~ Republican Jesus[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://www.thepaincomics.com/Jesus%20vs.%20Jeezus.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Rossy167;46391017]Who actually thinks this? I mean the new pope seems pretty alright to me, but in all honesty does anyone actually believe caring for the poor makes you a communist?[/QUOTE]
there are people who believe the moon landings are fake
there are people who believe "trickle down" economics works well (ask President Hoover how that went)
there are people who believe that vaccines will give you autism
there are people who genuinely panic about ebola
there are people who dont believe in evolution or the big bang
the point being, there are a lot of crazy people out there. They are the minority, yes, but they tend to be very vocal, and often screw stuff up for the rest of us.
[QUOTE=Rossy167;46391017]Who actually thinks this? I mean the new pope seems pretty alright to me, but in all honesty does anyone actually believe caring for the poor makes you a communist?[/QUOTE]
Things must be different in Britain.
Here in America, the Cold War never fucking ended. Communism is generally treated by most people older than 30 as an ultimate evil right up their with fascism. Some days it feels like we haven't moved out of the McCarthy era.
[QUOTE=deltasquid;46391173]Some people think the poor should be helped via charity instead of taxes. Which is stupid IMO because welfare programs are basically institutionalized charity to force less scrupulous members of society to pay for the well-being of all and to make sure people keep supporting the poor even in difficult times (i.e. when the poor need help most.)[/QUOTE]
Welfare programs are far from being "institutionalized charity". If you are FORCING people to give into something, it's no longer charity. The bible expects you to WILLFULLY give of yourself to the poor, because it shows that you actually care for the less fortunate. Tax money being taken from you and given to the poor doesn't show that you actually care for the less fortunate. It just shows that you pay your taxes to the government.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;46395316]Welfare programs are far from being "institutionalized charity". If you are FORCING people to give into something, it's no longer charity. The bible expects you to WILLFULLY give of yourself to the poor, because it shows that you actually care for the less fortunate. Tax money being taken from you and given to the poor doesn't show that you actually care for the less fortunate. It just shows that you pay your taxes to the government.[/QUOTE]
The problem is, without taxes, most of the people who would actually willfully give their money to the poor don't have enough to make a difference.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;46395347]The problem is, without taxes, most of the people who would actually willfully give their money to the poor don't have enough to make a difference.[/QUOTE]
I agree. I'm not refuting that point. I'm just saying that taxes aren't synonymous with charity.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;46395347]The problem is, without taxes, most of the people who would actually willfully give their money to the poor don't have enough to make a difference.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. The idea of taxes is building a large pool of resources, which can then be directed to do the most for the people's money.
Welfare is not charity. It's for the benefit of those funding welfare. History is littered with examples of what happens when your society has poor with no social safety net. It's cheaper to help people in the here and now than to leave them in desperation and suffer the effects later.
[QUOTE=Rossy167;46391017]Who actually thinks this? I mean the new pope seems pretty alright to me, but in all honesty does anyone actually believe caring for the poor makes you a communist?[/QUOTE]
Nobody thinks that, but the pope is allowed to get away with strawmen because he's the pope... I guess.
People might think that forcing other people to take care of the poor is wrong (through the government), but no one thinks that personally helping the poor is communist.
[QUOTE=sgman91;46395898]Nobody thinks that, but the pope is allowed to get away with strawmen because he's the pope... I guess.
People might think that forcing other people to take care of the poor is wrong (through the government), but no one thinks that personally helping the poor is communist.[/QUOTE]
HAHAHA... i wish i could have your optimism :suicide: , i have seen people legit think this pope is a communist here in brazil, because he focuses on caring about the poor lol, not even joking.
also i once saw an evangelical priest saying that poor people are poor, because god hates them and shit, i don't doubt anything anymore :v:
it's also hilarious to see people who believe this insanity, trying to explain this line here from the bible.
[QUOTE]Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God." Matthew 19:24
[/QUOTE]
you all should try it, should you ever meet someone like this too :dance:
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;46396626]HAHAHA... i wish i could have your optimism :suicide: , i have seen people legit think this pope is a communist here in brazil, because he focuses on caring about the poor lol, not even joking.
also i once saw an evangelical priest saying that poor people are poor, because god hates them and shit, i don't doubt anything anymore :v:[/QUOTE]
Point to where I said no one think the pope is communist.
[QUOTE]it's also hilarious to see people who believe this insanity, trying to explain this line here from the bible.[/QUOTE]
The problem with quoting verses out of context is that its easy to show your ignorance. Here, let me provide the context of that verse:
"24 Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 25 When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can be saved?” 26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”" Matthew 19:24-26
The lesson being taught here isn't that rich people can't go to Heaven, but that without God no one can go to Heaven.
[editline]2nd November 2014[/editline]
I can't edit my post (that's what I get for copy/pasting, ugh), but to add onto the first part: People might think the pope is communist because he advocates for exactly what the second part of my post said, namely, forcing people to take care of the poor through the use of governmental threat of imprisonment.
[QUOTE=sgman91;46395898]Nobody thinks that, but the pope is allowed to get away with strawmen because he's the pope... I guess.
People might think that forcing other people to take care of the poor is wrong (through the government), [B]but no one thinks that personally helping the poor is communist.[/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=sgman91;46396692]Point to where I said no one think the pope is communist.[/quote]
there are some who believe that helping the poor means you're a communist, wherever it is personal or not doesn't matter, and thus logically(if we can call this logic) the pope is also one, you didn't said "no one thinks" the pope is a communist, but you're still presented a condition, a condition in which he(and many others) fit.
[QUOTE=sgman91;46396692]The problem with quoting verses out of context is that its easy to show your ignorance. Here, let me provide the context of that verse:
"24 Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 25 When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can be saved?” 26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”" Matthew 19:24-26
The lesson being taught here isn't that rich people can't go to Heaven, but that without God no one can go to Heaven.[/QUOTE]
you realize one of the tenets of the prosperity gospel(in case it wasn't obvious already, that this is what i'm referring to), is that being rich MEANS you're favored by god right, which goes completely against this line, the prosperity gospel is also growing a LOT here in Brazil.
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;46396751]there are some who believe that helping the poor means you're a communist, wherever it is personal or not doesn't matter, and thus logically(if we can call this logic) the pope is also one, you didn't said "no one thinks" the pope is a communist, but you're still presented a condition, a condition in which he(and many others) fit.[/QUOTE]
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I've, personally, never met someone who thought any amount of personal help to the poor was communist. Not only would they be plain evil, but also an idiot with no semblance of an idea of what communism is.
[QUOTE]you realize one of the tenets of the prosperity gospel(in case it wasn't obvious already, that this is what i'm referring to), is that being rich MEANS you're favored by god right, which goes completely against this line, the prosperity gospel is also growing a LOT here in Brazil.[/QUOTE]
I know exactly what the prosperity gospel is. I also know that your response has nothing to do with what I said. Thinking that the Bible teaches only good things and riches to those who believe is laughable, but it's no more correct to think that being rich is inherently wrong.
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;46395608]Exactly. The idea of taxes is building a large pool of resources, which can then be directed to do the most for the people's money.
Welfare is not charity. It's for the benefit of those funding welfare. History is littered with examples of what happens when your society has poor with no social safety net. It's cheaper to help people in the here and now than to leave them in desperation and suffer the effects later.[/QUOTE]
Plus there's the whole problem that in 40 years they'll be 10B+ of us and almost no jobs due to higher and higher levels of productivity and automation, its pretty much inevitable that if we don't correct the growing wealth gulf that there must be a minimum garenteed income otherwise there will be a 1% holding most of societies wealth and a 99% unable to even make any money
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