• Moral right to complain if you don't vote
    52 replies, posted
Essentially, the argument of a non-voting citizen complaining about governmental structure post-election is essentially as follows: [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MACcTfK-c5c&feature=related"] [/URL][video=youtube;MACcTfK-c5c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MACcTfK-c5c&feature=related[/video] - the perspective of an intelligent 17 year old[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuL1De9EjdQ"] [video=youtube;NuL1De9EjdQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuL1De9EjdQ[/URL][/video] - a senior's perspective of the issue Perhaps the collective in congruence of the statement in question could perhaps even go as far as making this act a criminal offence. Perhaps voting should be mandatory; and perhaps there should also be a fine if which is avoided a prison term should be given. So, should the questionable citizen be socially ridiculed to reinforce the notion that voting is essential to governmental reform? And should voting be mandatory?
I'll be surprised to see anyone suggest that one can have a legitimate complaint on the outcome of an election if they don't vote. That is, if the complaint is concerning the people who vote. On your point of mandatory voting at risk of fines and jail time, it would make a lot more sense to create a secure platform for online voting. It is worth considering that a large portion of voters (most?) are uninformed. I don't want these people forced to vote. I would be interested in a method of discarding votes cast by voters that make their decision based on a logical fallacy. Unfortunately, this would currently have to be determined by people, and would thus be prone to corruption.
Although I vote I think people complain even if they voted for the party that won. I can think of people who never shut up about how David Cameron is crap yet back in 2010 they said they were voting for him. But under most circumstances, dont complain if you choose not to vote.
I used to agree with this mentality but then I realized there are systems outside of politics that people want too see used, and not just a change from one party to another, similar party. A lot of people still fail to realise that in a predominantly 2 party system like in the US, that compromise is always going to be an intrinsic part of the system by which we elect leaders. However this isn't a good way of going about choosing policies. People don't go out and vote for Obama because he deserves to win or Romney because he's a nice guy, they vote for their policies. And that is exactly what we should vote directly for; policies. Not some figurehead who claims to represent them.
Frankly I think it's absurd that someone would even think to classify complaining as [I]morally wrong;[/I] at worst, complaining is an unproductive waste of time (which it almost always is), but its never morally wrong. The whole view that voting is a moral obligation rests on the assumption that its even the correct procedure in the first place - which it isn't. Voting is [I]worse[/I] than doing nothing about your government, since it's basically consenting to whatever their brand of bullying is. At the moment our ability to vote just gives us some small say in which dick fucks us, when we should be collectively realising that we actually don't need to the threat of being fucked to run ourselves reasonably and fairly. I'm not voting because I don't want [I]any[/I] dicks inside me; I want everyone to freely associate with whoever they want without the threat of violence (being thrown in jail). Trying to make voting a [I]legal[/I] obligation is a really funny notion to me. It's like you're being gang raped and one of them tells you "CHOOSE WHICH DICK FUCKS YOU NEXT OR WE'LL ALL FUCK YOU", when literally everyone else is in exactly the same position and outnumber the gang-rapists a million to one. Voting is effectively giving up and making yourself a victim.
What do you mean by a "moral right to complain"?
The idea that you shouldn't be allowed to complain if you don't vote is horrendous and just reinforces clothespin voting and erodes the notion that voting is a RIGHT and not a DUTY. The right to abstain from voting is just as important as the right to vote.
It's a silly argument. Some people have orders of magnitude more sway over the electoral process than others.
In our local election, I didn't agree with major parts of each the candidates manifesto or the party that they represented. Even the independents for this area were piss poor this year. So what did I do? I spoiled my ballot. Do I still have the right to complain? I essentially didn't vote right?
voting is probably the lowest level of participation in the political process anyways
[QUOTE=Lazor;36120952]voting is probably the lowest level of participation in the political process anyways[/QUOTE] This. Even then, revoking someone's "right" to complaining is stupid. If I don't vote for a presidential candidate this year, does that mean suddenly my opinion of the candidates is invalid? It's a stupid precedent. Yes, everyone should vote, but by saying people shouldn't be allowed to complain since they didn't vote for any reason is ridiculous.
Whoever complains about who don't vote needs to learn we live in a republic, not a democracy.
[QUOTE=Conscript;36121283]Whoever complains about who don't vote needs to learn we live in a republic, not a democracy.[/QUOTE] Well it does depend on where you live. A massive number of people on this forum live in democracies.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;36121399]Well it does depend on where you live. A massive number of people on this forum live in democracies.[/QUOTE] I'm guessing the US Where we live in a democratic republic.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;36121399]Well it does depend on where you live. A massive number of people on this forum live in democracies.[/QUOTE] um i promise you most people on this forum live in some form of republic.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;36121399]Well it does depend on where you live. A massive number of people on this forum live in democracies.[/QUOTE] Maybe you're confusing democratic republic with democracy. The world is populated by republics (some in name only), there aren't any democracies.
[QUOTE=Lazor;36121438]um i promise you most people on this forum live in some form of republic.[/QUOTE] Just off the top of my head, the UK, Norway, Sweden, Spain, Canada, Australia and the Netherlands are not republics.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;36121542]Just off the top of my head, the UK, Norway, Sweden, Spain, Canada, Australia and the Netherlands are not republics.[/QUOTE] they certainly are't democracies and most of them function very similarly to republics anyways
[QUOTE=Lazor;36121568]they certainly are't democracies and most of them function very similarly to republics anyways[/QUOTE] All listed are representative democracies. The only remaining significant difference is in the election of a head of state.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;36121542]Just off the top of my head, the UK, Norway, Sweden, Spain, Canada, Australia and the Netherlands are not republics.[/QUOTE] That doesn't make them democracies. They are only different from democratic republics because they are monarchies.
I think there should be a secure platform for online voting and a major reform of government without as many politicians, in this world where voting is readily accessible by almost everyone we don't need people to represent us, we can cut out the middleman and vote directly on the issue without any major problems.
what a stupid topic and a terrible OP livelonger everything you said is wrong voting is an option, not an obligation. as to the complaining thing? well let's say I don't believe anybody should be able to say what they want about politics - shouldn't the people who [B]did[/B] vote have [B]less[/B] of a right to complain than the people who didn't? they're the ones who created the problem honestly. just a fucking awful thread. I guess it's a good debate topic for dummies with no common sense [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Even if you dislike the topic, this is still not debating." - Megafan))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36122585]That doesn't make them democracies. They are only different from democratic republics because they are monarchies.[/QUOTE] No, they're different because one has a president and the other does not.
Everyone has to deal with the policies of the government, just because you didn't vote doesn't mean you aren't affected by the outcome. Of course they can complain.
Your complaints are more steady if you have actually attempted to vote. People need to look at the bigger picture (society) instead of themselves. I don't see logic of complaining if a Republican candidate gets in and you didn't attempt to null that, for example. Australia has mandatory voting. Do I really feel like my rights are being breached? No, not really, I consider it a duty and a privilege to vote rather than a right, even if you do have every uninformed idiot from asshole to breakfast voting along with you. Besides, if I recall the election process correctly you can do a blank vote anyway if you don't want to give input.
What if a politically knowledgeable teenager whom isn't yet allowed to vote complains about the outcome of the election?
'moral right to complain' fuck off' everyone has the right for input in society. just because you don't agree with 'democracy' doesn't mean you have no right for an opinion ahahah what are these fuckups talking about lucky to live in a democracy? i'd say we're unlucky that we havent moved on from democracy yet. i dont consider having the choice of only two parties, who put in their own people through undemocratic means very lucky at all.
[QUOTE=Bobie;36143779]'moral right to complain' fuck off' everyone has the right for input in society. just because you don't agree with 'democracy' doesn't mean you have no right for an opinion ahahah what are these fuckups talking about lucky to live in a democracy? i'd say we're unlucky that we havent moved on from democracy yet. i dont consider having the choice of only two parties, who put in their own people through undemocratic means very lucky at all.[/QUOTE] That's just an error in the way your political system works right now, has nothing to do with democracy. And move on to what exactly?
George Carlin has en excellent rebuttal about this topic and whenever I hear of this argument I think of this clip. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeMGqTwWA6U[/media]
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;36143867]That's just an error in the way your political system works right now, has nothing to do with democracy. And move on to what exactly?[/QUOTE] saying that its an error in the political system, not democracy is like arguing that communism is perfect. as long as democracy exists, it will be doomed to fail because of its native flaws. and im not saying i have the best idea for the next form of society, but i'm open minded to new ideas and try to find out as much about the facts as possible, and from what i know a system that isn't heavily opinion based (which is pretty much the foundation of democracy), but instead focused on statistical evidence and factual movements into the bettering of mankind as a whole. instead of politicians bickering with eachother for 4 years, experts from all corners of the sciences, arts, etc could come together and [I]discuss[/I], not argue their views and come to a logical conclusion that would aid EVERYONE on the planet. it is the transition to a post-scarcity environment that is necessary for our world to be bettered, not gimmicky economics or invading countries to remove corrupt leaders. positivity, helpfulness and kindness should be the first and foremost policy of all 'leaders' and if that is not set in stone then we are doomed. but im not arguing that i have the best ideas ever, i'm simply offering my own view on what could be done.
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