[url=http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20101012/tuk-uni-report-calls-for-6k-student-fees-45dbed5.html]Source[/url]
[quote]University students will be charged £6,000 a year or more for their studies, if the Government adopts the recommendations made in an independent report.
Former BP boss Lord Browne's long-awaited review into higher education funding calls for the system to be simplified.
But his proposals would mean students have to fork out more for their university studies - both in fees and higher interest rates on loans.
Lord Browne anticipates the average student would leave university having borrowed around £30,000 to cover the fees and living expenses.
Under his plans, students would not have to pay their fees immediately - instead the Government would pay the university's charges up to £6,000.
If a university wanted to charge more, it would pay the Government a levy to help fund bursaries to support poorer students.
The loan system for students' living expenses should be replaced by a flat rate advance of £3,750, according to the report.
Students from lower income households could also get a maintenance grant they do not have to give back.
The full amount of £3,250 would be given to those from families that earn less than £25,000 and partial grants would be available for those earning up to £60,000.
"All students will receive at least as much cash in hand as they do now," Lord Browne's report says.
The interest rate on students loans, however, would increase under the plans.
Currently it is linked to inflation and stands at 1.5%.
The report calls for it to rise to 2.2% above the rate of inflation for most graduates.
Lord Browne wants to increase the threshold at which students begin to repay their fees and loans from £15,000 to £21,000.
But he believes some money can be recouped by increasing the length of time before the debt is written off, from 25 to 30 years.
Repayments will be linked to income and while low earners may never repay their full debt, the more a graduate earns, the more likely they are to repay the costs over the three decades.
Lord Browne told Sky News the system was designed to be sustainable for the future.
"We are recommending that we allow a 10% increase in university attendance over the next three to four years.
"I say this because a country which is better educated is one which is more successful
He went on: "This is an independent review. It is designed to make a system which lasts and increases quality and allows participation to go up."
Student finance is among the most divisive issues for the Coalition government as Liberal Democrat MPs pledged to vote against any increase in fees before the last election.
If they fail to join the Conservatives in supporting the measures, it could threaten David Cameron's chances of getting the proposals through Parliament and cause a damaging rift between the Coalition partners.
Lib Dem Business Secretary Vince Cable described the report as a "diligent inquiry".
"We will judge their recommendations against the impact on student debt," he said, "Ensuring a properly funded university sector, improving the quality of teaching, increasing social mobility and attracting a higher proportion of students from disadvantaged backgrounds."
But shadow business secretary John Denham told Sky News: "Every single Liberal Democrat MP said they would vote against any increase in fees so we do not know how they are going to balance the promises they made to the electorate, with the proposals that Vince Cable will bring forward."
He added: "We are concerned that many graduates will be shackled by debt for the majority of their working lives; that those on middle incomes in typical graduate jobs may pay more than their fair share and the highest earners will pay less and be free of debt much earlier."
Labour leader Ed Miliband has called for a graduate tax, which would mean higher earners pay more for their education.
The National Union of Students said debts could double and students who have to borrow the most to fund their studies will be hit by higher interest payments.
Speaking before the report's publication, NUS president Aaron Porter said: "It would be an insult to the intelligence of those who voted for the Liberal Democrats to attempt to rebrand the regressive and deeply unpopular top-up fee system.
"Liberal Democrat MPs have long opposed tuition fees and at the general election each of them signed a pledge to vote against higher fees in Parliament.
"It would be a complete betrayal of the electorate to abandon this flagship promise."
Steve Smith from Universities UK, which represents university leaders, said the report could be good news for universities if it is possible to implement the reform and secure Parliament's approval.
"A week later we have got the government spending review which will reduce university spending," he said.
"The number one concern is that we maintain the quality and the standards of higher education the UK and give protection to less well off students."
Kate Appleby is in her final year at the University of Birmingham and will leave with debts of £22,000.
She told Sky News: "I have had a few problems with my money and that's why I got a job in my second year to try and have a steady income because I think that does help.
"But in general I am lucky to have the support of my parents.
"If fees were higher when I started, I may have decided not to go to university at all," she added.[/quote]
[url=http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20101012/video/vuk-browne-report-set-to-call-for-6k-uni-37e89e1.html]Video[/url]
Fuck off. I ain't paying double
I take it this doesn't affect Scotland.
Pay money for studies? I got paid 300euro a month to study... Oh yeah i'm Swedish we are so perfect.
While it would never work, I almost wish this would happen universally.
Both British and American societies are locked in an arms race based around education. Everyone keeps pushing harder to get an edge over the competition with a higher degree.
College should not be necessary to FEED yourself in the United States. It defeats the entire concept of free public schooling.
Something needs to be done to break this concept. Unfortunately money has always been the barrier in the past, which makes college something only the wealthy can achieve, which isn't how that should work.
I dunno, perhaps total removal of student loans coupled with a massive increase in the scholarship program.
I really can't think of a truly viable and legal means of breaking this before it finally destroys us. Generation after generation entering life deeper and deeper in debt will not end well at ALL.
[QUOTE=GunFox;25356385]College should not be necessary to FEED yourself in the United States. It defeats the entire concept of free public schooling.
[/QUOTE]
That's a very good point. I think at the end of the day it's designed that way here to just keep the poor people poor.
[QUOTE=GunFox;25356385]While it would never work, [highlight]I almost wish this would happen universally.[/highlight]
Both British and American societies are locked in an arms race based around education. Everyone keeps pushing harder to get an edge over the competition with a higher degree.
College should not be necessary to FEED yourself in the United States. It defeats the entire concept of free public schooling.
Something needs to be done to break this concept. Unfortunately money has always been the barrier in the past, [highlight]which makes college something only the wealthy can achieve, which isn't how that should work.[/highlight]
I dunno, perhaps total removal of student loans coupled with a massive increase in the scholarship program.
I really can't think of a truly viable and legal means of breaking this before it finally destroys us. Generation after generation entering life deeper and deeper in debt will not end well at ALL.[/QUOTE]
"I want University to be more expensive, I don't want only the wealthy to go into University."
:confused:
Making education more expensive is completely the wrong way to go. As soon as education becomes about money, the gaps between the rich and poor will no doubt increase, there will probably be more unemployment due to the fact that more people cannot afford university, and we already have a lack of low skilled job vacancies here.
I think Gunfox was trying to say that it may be a good thing that University becomes more expensive because it acts as a filter and lowers the amount of people per year who graduate with a University degree; but as he said, it shouldn't work that way.
It really is a bad state of affairs when the government looks to education to try and claw back money for the National Debt; it will genuienly be the end of the post New Labour initiative to try and get half of the country skilled up.
It's a bad state of affairs.
[QUOTE=ijyt;25356835]"I want University to be more expensive, I don't want only the wealthy to go into University."
:confused:[/QUOTE]
Yeah I know that sounds weird.
But Benf got it. I wish it would happen because at least it worked. The gap between the wealthy and the poor was miserable, but it functioned economically. What we have now is not functional and leads to an over-reliance on foreign manufacturing and a MASSIVE trade deficit.
I guess ideally we'd just tax the ever loving shit out of foreign goods again in order to artificially recreate reasonably paid blue collar jobs and also stop supporting pricks like China. This would in turn take the edge off of the education race because people could afford to take an automotive factory job and still have a family.
Great, so I'm going into GCSE and I find out I might not be able to afford university...
Although, I think the Welsh Assembly acts as a bit of a barrier against stupid cuts in education in my country. :D
Looks like that'll completely kill my plans to return to England to study at a university :sigh:
[QUOTE=Thom12255;25355977]I take it this doesn't affect Scotland.[/QUOTE]
Devolution. So, no.
Fuck them, I am living on no money as it is!
It strikes me that, given that in the end, the purpose of education these days is to fuel industry, it should be the industries that foot the bill. Hell, it worked before.
This is fucking awful, I admit the university system is flawed at the moment but this is the wrong way to go about solving it. Universities should cut down on the less "Traditional" courses and use FE colleges or Open universities instead.
Cutting FE education is a horrible horrible thing and I will never forgive the government if they decide to do this.
This is dump how can they do this and say they want to decrease poverty
[QUOTE=Jon27;25357128]Great, so I'm going into GCSE and I find out I might not be able to afford university...
Although, I think the Welsh Assembly acts as a bit of a barrier against stupid cuts in education in my country. :D[/QUOTE]
GCSE is easy, worry about A-levels when you get to them. University isn't the be all and end all.
[QUOTE=GunFox;25357095]Yeah I know that sounds weird.
But Benf got it. I wish it would happen because at least it worked. The gap between the wealthy and the poor was miserable, but it functioned economically. What we have now is not functional and leads to an over-reliance on foreign manufacturing and a MASSIVE trade deficit.
I guess ideally we'd just tax the ever loving shit out of foreign goods again in order to artificially recreate reasonably paid blue collar jobs and also stop supporting pricks like China. This would in turn take the edge off of the education race because people could afford to take an automotive factory job and still have a family.[/QUOTE]
So the people who are interested in a subject but aren't wealthy enough to do a degree should just give up and be plumbers for the good of the country, right
Fucking Tories.
Latest news is: they plan to completely remove the fees cap... Universities will be able to charge any amount they like, although the universities will have to pay the government a levy to fund bursaries if they charge more then £6000.
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11519147[/url]
The hilarious thing is that before the election the Lib Dems signed an agreement stating that they would absolutely be against any raise in tuition fees, this was one of the cornerstones of their campaign... and now the main Lib Dems are putting their full support behind the plans to raise them. If ever an example was needed for the ridiculous lies told by politicians this is it.
[QUOTE=BaconDioxide;25359673]So the people who are interested in a subject but aren't wealthy enough to do a degree should just give up and be plumbers for the good of the country, right[/QUOTE]
Basically we will have a system where the poor will only feasibly be able to do well paid 'useful' degrees with plenty of grants etc, or no degree, while the rich will be able to choose to do whatever degree they wish to. Poor and want to do archaeology? Become a plumber say the Tories.
[QUOTE=dirty harry;25359775]Fucking Tories.[/QUOTE]
Why are you blaming the tories? It's not their fault the country is in a lot of debt.
Lets make unis even less affordable, that sure will improve the country, not.
[QUOTE=BaconDioxide;25359673]So the people who are interested in a subject but aren't wealthy enough to do a degree should just give up and be plumbers for the good of the country, right[/QUOTE]
What about the people who don't want to enter society in debt?
The people who want to be plumbers? Construction workers? Factory operators? Your mindset is exactly the problem. Blue collar manual labor is a perfectly respectable occupation and should be paid reasonable wages.
If you think the bulk of the population is actually deserving of a higher degree, then you either over estimate the average joe or you under estimate the original value of a degree.
[QUOTE=johan_sm;25360692]Lets make unis even less affordable, that sure will improve the country, not.[/QUOTE]
There's not enough English people doing the low end jobs, and these jobs are being taken up by the foreigners mainly because a lot of English people think that they're better than that and so they won't do the low end jobs.
Scottish students get their university education for free.
As funded for by the United Kingdom taxpayer, bra fucking vo.
Also aren't the Conservatives against the minimum wage, meaning Gunfoxs comment about getting a blue-collar factory job in the future would earn less for you than it does now if the Conservatives can get their way?
I am going to say something really far fetched now, but could we also argue that money itself is a dated system for the modern world? A move to a system where society can function without having to force every living person into a rat race of a job hunt ?
What the fuck is the point of having Universities so smarter people can have better qualifications if the smarter people CAN'T GO TO UNIVERSITY because they don't want to be further in debt than a fucking crack-whore on the streets by the time they're 19!
Well I'm totally fucked now.
Instead of putting up tuition fees so dramatically, why not scrap some of the pointless degrees, taken by people who want to get into uni for the "experience". It annoys me when you see lots of people going to uni, doing some 1-2 year degree that will only have a minute chance of giving them a better chance at a job. And since I'm kind of middle-income/class it looks like I'll be doubly fucked over, [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11516751[/url].
I have no problem with a higher education system available to all, but these easy-to-get-into worthless degrees take up government funding that should go towards more law and medicine courses.
-Snip- double post, this new server still takes ages to post and makes my browser unresponsive.
College isn't there to teach you, it's there to take all of your money. All colleges and major state universities are there for profit, teaching you is just a side effect.
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