[quote]And documents passed to the BBC suggest Jeremy Corbyn's office sought to delay and water down the Labour Remain campaign. Sources suggest that they are evidence of "deliberate sabotage".[/quote]
[URL]http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36633238[/URL]
Yeah, that's not a good thing to have happening.
Sabotage or incompetence? Corbyn is an aging hippie, they're not known for competence.
He's also a known eurosceptic who only reluctantly accepted the party's pro-EU platform
[editline]26th June 2016[/editline]
A similar article on Politico also points the finger at Corbyn. He could have easily swung the Labour vote further towards remain while motivating the young to turn out.
If this is true this would be pretty disappointing
but look closely at the article - at their supposed smoking gun:
[quote]It shows how a sentence talking about immigration was removed on one occasion and how Mr Milne refused to sign off a letter signed by 200 MPs after it had already been approved.[/quote]
[quote]Another email from Labour Remain sources to the leader's office complains "there is no EU content here - we agreed to have Europe content in it". [/quote]
So basically:
1 he didn't want to make some point about immigration on one particular occasion
2 one of his staffers didn't sign a letter
3 in one particular speech, most likely about something unrelated, he refused to mention the EU
Maybe there's more to it, but based on what they've actually put in this article, I'm not convinced. In the rest of the article they talk about accusations that came to light through the emails, but not actual evidence.
To be honest though, if it is true it wouldn't be all that surprising coming from the office of a relatively Euro sceptic left winger. [b]but[/b] from what they're saying, this was all coming from Corbyn's director of communications, not from Corbyn himself.
People say Corbyn used to fully support leaving the EU, and I may be wrong, but I've never actually seen any footage of him explicating saying he'd want us to leave, only ever legitimate criticism of it, none of which he's withdrawn.
I think the Labour party should be a socialist and anti-austerity party and that there is a path to electoral victory there, but it does not need to be with Corbyn.
It's been a well known fact that Corbyn has been a eurosceptic since the heydays of parliament, of course he had a watered down plan but by the looks of things, there not that significant?
he obviously still had some movement to back the remain campaign either that be from a push from his MP's or just he himself knowing leaving the EU was a bad fucking idea and that reform was the way to go
[QUOTE=person11;50598474]I think the Labour party should be a socialist and anti-austerity party and that there is a path to electoral victory there, but it does not need to be with Corbyn.[/QUOTE]who then?
that's the issue. a majority of the country just voted against the establishment and they want a leader who is more to the centre? they did that the last two elections and got demolished.
'labor' party shilling for international finance and a neoliberal super-state
[QUOTE=Conscript;50598594]'labor' party shilling for international finance and a neoliberal super-state[/QUOTE]
"International finance and a neoliberal super-state"... Are you a generic right-wing bot?
[QUOTE=Chaitin;50598606]"International finance and a neoliberal super-state"... Are you a generic right-wing bot?[/QUOTE]the super-state thing is nebulous but i don't think anyone can argue that the EU is not a champion of international finance and neoliberal policies, which isn't inherently a bad thing even if i believe it is
I got a feeling this is just a leak to help the labour politicians with their coup
I hope this manages to water down the frothing communists and oust Corbyn
The conservatives need some proper competition, lest we be ruled by Boris
[QUOTE=Mallow234;50598724]I hope this manages to water down the frothing communists and oust Corbyn
The conservatives need some proper competition, lest we be ruled by Boris[/QUOTE]got any suggestions for someone to replace him? one that's both popular with the electorate and also popular with the membership & unions who fully back Corbyn?
saying Corbyn needs to go is fine and all but having no plan is even worse and commiting to this means they are going against the source of their funding & grassroots teams. Benn, Hunt and Kinnock have all said Corbyn should go yet have ruled themselves out as leader, what do they want to do?
[QUOTE=benzi2k7;50598751]got any suggestions for someone to replace him? one that's both popular with the electorate and also popular with the membership & unions who fully back Corbyn?
saying corbyn needs to go but having no plan is even worse. Benn, Hunt and Kinnock have all said Corbyn should go yet have ruled themselves out as leader, what do they want to do?[/QUOTE]
Corbyn is popular with the electorate but unpopular with the people
If Labour want to be elected (which they have a very real opportunity to do so if the conservative leadership contest leads to a general election), then they need to put actual electability ahead of party popularity
And it's the coup's job to select a leader, I have no bearing on who they'll rally behind, it just better not be dodgy corbyn
[QUOTE=Mallow234;50598766]Corbyn is popular with the electorate but unpopular with the people
If Labour want to be elected (which they have a very real opportunity to do so if the conservative leadership contest leads to a general election), then they need to put actual electability ahead of party popularity
And it's the coup's job to select a leader, I have no bearing on who they'll rally behind, it just better not be dodgy corbyn[/QUOTE]they have no idea who they want as leader & any membership vote would result in corbyn getting reelected
that's the issue, they have no one else. the last 2 elections blairites got the leader they wanted and lost both times. they have no plan.
with a general election probably only a few months away this is their plan so far:
1. Oust Corbyn against the will of their membership & the unions that support them
2. ???
[QUOTE=benzi2k7;50598774]they have no idea who they want as leader & any membership vote would result in corbyn getting reelected
that's the issue, they have no one else. the last 2 elections blairites got the leader they wanted and lost both times. they have no plan.
with a general election probably only a few months away this is their plan so far:
1. Oust Corbyn against the will of their membership & the unions that support them
2. ???[/QUOTE]
is everyone that isn't corbyn considered a 'blairite'? how was miliband anything but a left wing candidate? he was a strongly vocal critic of the iraq war and a self described socialist.
gordon brown can largely be considered labour's last successful candidate - they won over the electorate before the lib dems made a coalition with cameron. with corbyn's current approval ratings, he won't get close to either of the two.
maybe when anarcho-communists stop buying into the labour party and keep insisting they'll vote for the guy even though he has the worst chance of election out of [i]any[/i] labour MP, we'll have a chance of having a left leaning government.
[QUOTE=Bobie;50598968]is everyone that isn't corbyn considered a 'blairite'? how was miliband anything but a left wing candidate? he was a strongly vocal critic of the iraq war and a self described socialist.
gordon brown can largely be considered labour's last successful candidate - they won over the electorate before the lib dems made a coalition with cameron. with corbyn's current approval ratings, he won't get close to either of the two.
maybe when anarcho-communists stop buying into the labour party and keep insisting they'll vote for the guy even though he has the worst chance of election out of [I]any[/I] labour MP, we'll have a chance of having a left leaning government.[/QUOTE]i voted for ed and was a fan of him, he's not really much of a blairite, no but what i meant was he was a politican they were comfortable with to lead the party yet he lost.
their only goal is to get rid of corbyn which has been their goal since he was elected, i could understand that if they had any sort of plan for the aftermath but they do not & they're entirely disconnected from their membership base & union support
either way they are fucked i think
[QUOTE=benzi2k7;50599034]i voted for ed and was a fan of him, he's not really much of a blairite, no but what i meant was he was a politican they were comfortable with to lead the party yet he lost.
their only goal is to get rid of corbyn which has been their goal since he was elected, i could understand that if they had any sort of plan for the aftermath but they do not & they're entirely disconnected from their membership base & union support
either way they are fucked i think[/QUOTE]
honestly i kind of miss miliband for this reason, he was the right leader at the wrong time. his platform would be far more popular right now; but if it is left to member vote again we'll just be looking at another corbyn leadership.
[QUOTE=benzi2k7;50599034]i voted for ed and was a fan of him, he's not really much of a blairite, no but what i meant was he was a politican they were comfortable with to lead the party yet he lost.
their only goal is to get rid of corbyn which has been their goal since he was elected, i could understand that if they had any sort of plan for the aftermath but they do not & they're entirely disconnected from their membership base & union support
either way they are fucked i think[/QUOTE]
I didn't mind Miliband too much. He just didn't seem to have the charisma to stop Cameron from walking all over him.
Can they just put Miliband back now that bully Cameron is gone?
I would vote for Miliband if it was a choice between him or Boris/Gove. Then again, I would vote for Mr Bean if it was either him or Boris/Gove.
Replace Corbyn with Hilary Benn who he recently just sacked. Corbyn needs to realise he's lost and has no control of the party, any decent politician would have stepped down by now but Corbyn seems to see the Labour party as his own personal club.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50599885]Replace Corbyn with Hilary Benn who he recently just sacked. Corbyn needs to realise he's lost and has no control of the party, any decent politician would have stepped down by now but Corbyn seems to see the Labour party as his own personal club.[/QUOTE]his loyalties are with the hundreds of thousands of members who gave him a mandate and majority, and the unions who back them. the ones who tread the labour party as a personal club are the PLP, that was sort of the whole point of Blair placing people in prime positions to water down any socialism within the party.
[QUOTE=benzi2k7;50599932]his loyalties are with the hundreds of thousands of members who gave him a mandate and majority, and the unions who back them. the ones who tread the labour party as a personal club are the PLP, that was sort of the whole point of Blair placing people in prime positions to water down any socialism within the party.[/QUOTE]
Parties are supposed to be trying to win over the population, not the hearts of 200,000 weirdos in the membership. The labour party isn't some socialist pressure group, it's a major party. This is partly Ed's fault for changing how the leader elections work but still, time to get rid of Corbyn if we want an effective opposition.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50599955]Parties are supposed to be trying to win over the population, not the hearts of 200,000 weirdos in the membership. The labour party isn't some socialist pressure group, it's a major party. This is partly Ed's fault for changing how the leader elections work but still, time to get rid of Corbyn if we want an effective opposition.[/QUOTE]in the last local elections they matched the same (highest ever) results from the last time around and they've won both mayoral elections, how is that not building support? i guess the unions are a bunch of weirdos too, and he won a majority across all various social spectrums of the membership. but i guess they're just weirdos.
[QUOTE=benzi2k7;50599967]in the last local elections they matched the same (highest ever) results from the last time around and they've won both mayoral elections, how is that not building support?[/QUOTE]
That election was mostly held in labour strongholds, it's not really representative of the public opinion at large. Corbyn so far has only won a total of 3 opinions polls, which considering most polls are weighted in favour of labour that's pretty bad.
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