Ukraine closer to halting gas transit to Europe, EU worried
27 replies, posted
[QUOTE]KIEV/BRUSSELS, Aug 12 (Reuters) - Ukraine's parliament backed the first reading of a bill to impose sanctions on Russian companies and individuals on Tuesday, a move that has raised concern in Europe about energy supplies from Russia.
Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseny Yatseniuk said last week that the sanctions could be imposed against 172 citizens of Russia and other countries and against 65 Russian companies, including gas export giant Gazprom, "for financing terrorism".
Ukraine said on Monday that European energy companies would have to agree major contract revisions when purchasing Russian natural gas if parliament approved imposing sanctions on Gazprom . Parliament has scheduled a second reading of the bill for Thursday.
Russia is Europe's biggest gas supplier, meeting almost a third of the region's demand, around half of which flows to European clients via Ukraine. European utility companies are worried that Ukrainian sanctions could disrupt supplies during the coming winter.
Ukraine's gas grid, Naftogaz, said on Monday that the sanctions could limit or even exclude some companies from piping gas through the country but did not refer directly to Gazprom. It said this would allow other firms to take over transit operations in Ukraine.
"The main idea is (that) transit could continue with no problems if this gas is bought at our eastern border (with Russia) by, let's say, European companies," a Naftogaz spokeswoman told Reuters.
Current supply contracts with European utilities are for delivery of Russian gas into the EU via Ukraine, with Naftogaz receiving a transit fee.
The European Union said gas contracts may need to be renegotiated.
"We have raised the issue of the draft law again this morning in a phone call with our Ukraine partners," European Commission Vice-President Guenther Oettinger said. "We are confident that Ukraine remains a reliable transit partner."
"Naftogaz's idea that European gas companies could buy Russian gas at the Russian-Ukrainian border instead of getting it delivered through Ukraine requires a renegotiation of the transit contracts," Oettinger said.
"This cannot be done in the short term - it is a question that would need to be discussed in a trilateral meeting between the European Commission, the Russian Federation and Ukraine," Oettinger said, adding that the Commission was planning such a meeting for early autumn.
Russian gas flows to Ukraine have been halted three times over the past decade, affecting supplies to the European Union, by contract and pricing disputes between Moscow and Kiev.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/08/12/ukraine-crisis-sanctions-idINL6N0QI2JE20140812[/url]
I mentioned in the previous thread that it might be prudent to look into securing a small wood stove and a supply of firewood. I advise it increasingly in the hope you can manage it before a shortage occurs due to people panicking.
[QUOTE=Grimhound;45669391]I mentioned in the previous thread that it might be prudent to look into securing a small wood stove and a supply of firewood. I advise it increasingly in the hope you can manage it before a shortage occurs due to people panicking.[/QUOTE]
Or, idunno, convert to electric? Safer, cheaper, greener, more reliable, the equipment lives longer, and no dependence on Russia. Everyone wins!
[QUOTE=TestECull;45669413]Or, idunno, convert to electric? Safer, cheaper, greener, more reliable, the equipment lives longer, and no dependence on Russia. Everyone wins![/QUOTE]
Only if you have enough solar panels and batteries to power your home. Otherwise it's likely that the electricity is generated with Russian gas.
[QUOTE=TestECull;45669413]Or, idunno, convert to electric? Safer, cheaper, greener, more reliable, the equipment lives longer, and no dependence on Russia. Everyone wins![/QUOTE]
Only if your local power plant doesn't rely on gas
[QUOTE=Grimhound;45669391]I mentioned in the previous thread that it might be prudent to look into securing a small wood stove and a supply of firewood. I advise it increasingly in the hope you can manage it before a shortage occurs due to people panicking.[/QUOTE]
a) all countries have a national reserve of both oil, gas, coal, grain and a load of other provisions
b) most Europeans live in apartments
c) we're not that backwards, we'll figure it out
[QUOTE=Grimhound;45669391]I mentioned in the previous thread that it might be prudent to look into securing a small wood stove and a supply of firewood. I advise it increasingly in the hope you can manage it before a shortage occurs due to people panicking.[/QUOTE]
You would need A LOT of wood to be safe in the long run. Not the amount everyone can store in their cellar. At least when it comes down to producing heat via burning wood.
[QUOTE=TestECull;45669413]Or, idunno, convert to electric? Safer, cheaper, greener, more reliable, the equipment lives longer, and no dependence on Russia. Everyone wins![/QUOTE]
Depends on the country and their prices for electricity, but producing heat via electric means in Germany costs a fuck ton more compared to other methods. But I guess this would also change if the gas supply for Europe will get restricted.
[QUOTE=TestECull;45669413]Or, idunno, convert to electric? Safer, cheaper, greener, more reliable, the equipment lives longer, and no dependence on Russia. Everyone wins![/QUOTE]
Way more expensive than gas here. Which is weird since I think we're the biggest nuclear energy country of the EU.
[QUOTE=Grimhound;45669391]I mentioned in the previous thread that it might be prudent to look into securing a small wood stove and a supply of firewood. I advise it increasingly in the hope you can manage it before a shortage occurs due to people panicking.[/QUOTE]
Out of sheer curiosity, how are you planning to stockpile on pipeline gas. I would certainly love to know. (as a normal physical person of course, national stockpiles are something else entirely and ours are rated for 3 months of full supply for instance)
if all else fails, Europe can fire up their jew-fired power plants again, hopefully that will give them energy independence for a while
So one-third is from Russia, and half of that goes through Ukraine? You'd lose [U]1/6'th[/U], which is still very harsh, but it's not "OMG NO GAS" like people are making it out to be. The consequences for Ukraine could be worse than the consequences for Europe. I could see the Russian Army moving in to take back their pipe-line.
Say it with me: Oil from the Pan-American Union, or actually forming a fucking United Europe Military, and going American Peacekeeper mode to secure oil resources.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;45670234]So one-third is from Russia, and half of that goes through Ukraine? You'd lose [U]1/6'th[/U], which is still very harsh, but it's not "OMG NO GAS" like people are making it out to be. The consequences for Ukraine could be worse than the consequences for Europe. I could see the Russian Army moving in to take back their pipe-line.[/QUOTE]
And suddenly "that pipeline" becomes "what pipeline" when it's rigged with explosives and detonated at various points throughout the country.
[editline]12th August 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=wraithcat;45669713]Out of sheer curiosity, how are you planning to stockpile on pipeline gas. I would certainly love to know. (as a normal physical person of course, national stockpiles are something else entirely and ours are rated for 3 months of full supply for instance)[/QUOTE]
What? I never suggested stockpiling gas. I said to maybe keep some firewood handy.
They should get some from the USA, Now with 100% more freedom and less communism!
It's okay if Ukraine does it. Ukraine is allowed to do stupid things.
[QUOTE=Recco;45671499]It's okay if Ukraine does it. Ukraine is allowed to do stupid things.[/QUOTE]
Well it's about time Europe wakes the fuck up and becomes less dependent on Russian gas.
[QUOTE=Ghost656;45671532]Well it's about time Europe wakes the fuck up and becomes less dependent on Russian gas.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. The current situation is as good a reason as any, if not [I]the [/I]best.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45672126]An energy independent Europe is extremely unlikely to allow Ukraine into the EU (not that they were very close in the first place, but lets be serious now, the pipeline is pretty much the only thing they've got going for them)[/QUOTE]
Not really, the pipeline benefits Russia and the EU, it doesn't do shit for Ukraine. Instead, turning it off could possibly upset EU and definitely upset Russia. But having it there has no benefits to Ukraine.
As was said in the previous thread, there is basically no downside for the Ukraine. They're getting fuck all support from the EU, Russia is knocking on their door and looks set to just kick it down. And that pipeline gives Russia all the leverage it needs with the EU. If it were taken out of the equation, Russia would lose a lot of sway, and the biggest impediment to the EU actually doing something would be removed.
Ukraine is giving itself a bargaining chip. "Do something to help us, or we have to pull the plug on the pipeline."
[QUOTE=Saxon;45670631]They should get some from the USA, Now with 100% more freedom and less communism![/QUOTE]
*Terms and conditions may apply.
[editline]13th August 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ghost656;45671532]Well it's about time Europe wakes the fuck up and becomes less dependent on Russian gas.[/QUOTE]
Europe has been going into direction of the renewable energy for a long time.
But it takes a while convert and upgrade existing infrastructure.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;45669449]Only if your local power plant doesn't rely on gas[/QUOTE]
Wouldn't be a problem if they didn't listen to the NIMBYists and the morons who cry Chernobyl each time you even think about anything nuclear.
[QUOTE=TestECull;45675671]Wouldn't be a problem if they didn't listen to the NIMBYists and the morons who cry Chernobyl each time you even think about anything nuclear.[/QUOTE]
Do you really want a region on the brink of full blown war to start opening up new nuclear power plants
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;45672243]Not really, the pipeline benefits Russia and the EU, it doesn't do shit for Ukraine. Instead, turning it off could possibly upset EU and definitely upset Russia. But having it there has no benefits to Ukraine.[/QUOTE]
Apart from getting huge amounts of cash in transit fees?
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;45670279]Say it with me: Oil from the Pan-American Union, or actually forming a fucking United Europe Military, and going American Peacekeeper mode to secure oil resources.[/QUOTE]
Or you know, source gas from other areas and flip the whole of Ukraine and Russia twin birds.
[editline]13th August 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;45676160]Do you really want a region on the brink of full blown war to start opening up new nuclear power plants[/QUOTE]
Seriously what do you think happens in a modern nuclear power plant? A load of cunts hammering uranium to gather energy? Mate they're safe as fuck and they have been for a long time since most reactors now immediately drop their control rods into the reactor the second they lose power and thus stop the neutrons doing their thing, stopping the reaction dead.
[QUOTE=Stopper;45669483]c) we're not that backwards, we'll figure it out[/QUOTE]Uh, I heat my house using wood so [i]thanks[/i] for that.
If you can get by using wood, do it, it's cheap if you cut it yourself and ~carbon neutral~ if that tickles your fancy. I use about 5-8 cords (18-29 cubic meters) of wood per winter in my small house, but that's only because I know what I'm doing and the LP furnace picks up the slack.
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