• U.N. Envoy Says Israeli Settlements ‘Undermine’ Peace Talks
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[QUOTE]United Nations — The United Nations envoy charged with persuading the Israelis and Palestinians to resume peace talks said on Thursday that Israel’s policy of expanding settlements in the West Bank was among the trends that “severely undermine hopes for peace.”[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]“Palestinian frustration cannot be wished away,” he said in his remarks to the Security Council. “It cannot be vanquished by aggressive security measures, arrests or punitive home demolitions.” “Neither is it helped when Israeli ministers openly reject the very notion of a Palestinian state,” he added.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]President Obama has been increasingly concerned that the continued expansion of Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank would make it impossible to set up a viable Palestinian state.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/world/middleeast/israeli-settlements-mideast-peace.html[/url]
Ending Israeli settlement expansion is a prerequisite for peace talks. I wish Israel would take this advice seriously. I can understand occupation, because Hamas and other terrorist groups are bombing shit, but stop moving people in to occupied territory and further displacing Palestinians. That doesn't help.
Honestly, we all know that this whole thing is going to end in Palestine ceasing to exist in the future. Israel is well aware of what its doing.
Stopping the expansion should be the first step in achieving peace, but sadly our retarded government doesn't seem to give a shit. I really wish they got their heads out of their assessment for once.
[QUOTE=ScreamingGerbil;50627361]Stopping the expansion should be the first step in achieving peace, but sadly our retarded government doesn't seem to give a shit. I really wish they got their heads out of their assessment for once.[/QUOTE] It's a two-party issue. So long as the PLC and the PNA is controlled by Hamas, negotiations will be hardline and uncompromising. So long as Israel expands settlements, support for hardline parties like Hamas/DFLP/PFLP will increase. I wish decent Palestinian parties like the PNI could get more than two seats. Fatah looks like a goddamn moderate party compared to Hamas and the other hardline parties in the PLC. PNI leadership could actually end this bullshit with reasonable discussion, but the more Israel pushes the more extremism flares up. It's endless.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;50627343]Ending Israeli settlement expansion is a prerequisite for peace talks. I wish Israel would take this advice seriously. [B]I can understand occupation, because Hamas[/B] and other terrorist groups are bombing shit, but stop moving people in to occupied territory and further displacing Palestinians. That doesn't help.[/QUOTE] Just so others know, this post is incorrect. Hamas, (like many of the terror groups) were only founded in 1987 in response to 20 years of unchecked Israeli occupation. To say you understand occupation "because of Hamas" is like saying you understand why 9/11 happened because of what TSA did before that.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;50627708]Just so others know, this post is incorrect. Hamas, (like many of the terror groups) were only founded in 1987 in response to 20 years of unchecked Israeli occupation. To say you understand occupation "because of Hamas" is like saying you understand why 9/11 happened because of what TSA did before that.[/QUOTE] You're right about Hamas being founded in 1987, but other Palestinian organizations existed before them: [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah[/url] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organization#Armed_actions[/url] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_Organization[/url]
UN idea of peace talk will never bear fruition, because it disregards the fundamental motives of both sides. Everybody knows that the ultimate aim is to bring in the WW2-style grand ceasefire; nuking Japanese in the middle of the city, and after bringing them to their knees, suggest them to lower their arm and offer a one-sided treaty. Israel themselves realizes that is the only thing that they can do to secure their peace. Prolonging conflict is necessary. In any other event, UN will already step forward with a decisive peace operation. In normal situation Israel would not even be considered a country by UN in the first place. But the magic touch of Uncle Sam made all madness possible it seems.
[QUOTE=hakimhakim;50628235] In any other event, UN will already step forward with a decisive peace operation. In normal situation Israel would not even be considered a country by UN in the first place. But the magic touch of Uncle Sam made all madness possible it seems.[/QUOTE] What does that even mean
[QUOTE=Starpluck;50627708]Just so others know, this post is incorrect. Hamas, (like many of the terror groups) were only founded in 1987 in response to 20 years of unchecked Israeli occupation. To say you understand occupation "because of Hamas" is like saying you understand why 9/11 happened because of what TSA did before that.[/QUOTE] I agree that the initial occupation following the Six-Day War was unreasonable. Seizing Gaza and the West Bank (and all of Sinai at the time) incited Fatah with Arafat, and other Palestinian groups, to actively rebel. I understand that. I mean to say that I understand [I]continued[/I] occupation. I want Palestinian independence, and I favor a two-state solution, as unlikely as it seems at this point. Hamas and other violent and extremist groups in Palestine aren't doing that movement any favors. Israel can't just back out at this point - they left Gaza already and it resulted in further missile fire. I'm not excusing their resettlement after the disengagement - I disagree with that - I'm just pointing out why I understand the Israeli perspective. I'm by no means pro-Israel, but I'm also very anti-Hamas. I want to see the situation resolved peacefully - something [I]neither[/I] Israel or Hamas are willing to do. PNI's the only really reasonable political group in Palestine. I understand why the Palestinian people tend to favor Hamas, especially those still under occupation, but I won't condone violence from either Hamas or Israel. I could understand US military action against ISIS. ISIS didn't exist back then, and the US is partially responsible for the creation of ISIS, but I would still understand the reasons behind the US's actions. [I]Even if I don't support those actions[/I]. The same goes for Israel and Hamas.
[QUOTE=RzDat;50627769]You're right about Hamas being founded in 1987, but other Palestinian organizations existed before them: [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah[/url] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organization#Armed_actions[/url] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_Organization[/url][/QUOTE] So what did you expect from an occupation? People are supposed to just take it in the ass and say more please?
[QUOTE=Bucketboy;50628285]So what did you expect from an occupation? People are supposed to just take it in the ass and say more please?[/QUOTE] You sure as hell aren't supposed target the country's civilian population, you're just giving them more reason to make your life miserable and elect more right wing asshats like Netanyahu. It's like you're trying to put out a house fire with gasoline.
[QUOTE=RzDat;50628321]You sure as hell aren't supposed target the country's civilian population, you're just giving them more reason to make your life miserable and elect more right wing asshats like Netanyahu. It's like you're trying to put out a house fire with gasoline.[/QUOTE] Honestly, no normal people outside of Israel would think that it's the houseowner fault for fighting back a robber. That's what the UN envoys and the rest of the world was trying to convey anyway, for the umpteenth time, albeit subtlely. For all purpose, Zionist are the largest advocate of human shield of all. Bringing a whole population into a bloody conflict areas, and then calling Palestinian civilian-attacker? But I guess, anything goes for the promised land
[QUOTE=RzDat;50628321]You sure as hell aren't supposed target the country's civilian population, you're just giving them more reason to make your life miserable and elect more right wing asshats like Netanyahu. It's like you're trying to put out a house fire with gasoline.[/QUOTE] Yes because Israel totally does not target civilians.
[QUOTE=Bucketboy;50628438]Yes because [B]Israel totally does not target civilians.[/B][/QUOTE] Correct. The Palestinian casualties of war are exploited by Hamas to gain a strong political stance. Hamas AND the Palestinian Authority are OPENLY encouraging Palestinians to give their life away for the fight against Israel. And where does this lead? Hamas leader [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaled_Mashal]Khaled Mashal is enjoying the spoils in his 5 star hotel in Qatar[/url] and [url=http://europe.newsweek.com/palestinian-president-constructing-13m-palace-332061]Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas wants to construct a multi-million Palace in Ramallah despite being in a financial crisis.[/url] How do you solve this conflict? In my opinion, Both governments (Israel and Palestine) need a change of leaders. Netanyahu should be kicked out for continuing the building of illegal settlements and Hamas has to be completely dismantled and be replaced with a more moderate government that will cooperate with Israel [B]and with its own Palestinian citizens.[/B] Once a more moderate Palestinian government will be in power, they can start rebuilding and take care of themselves without help of international aid. After that a more friendly relationship built on trust will be formed between the two states and soon enough, the blockade will be lifted and Palestinians will finally have the power to live independently as a nation. To gain sovereignty, both sides need to acknowledge the fact that they are here to stay.
[QUOTE=RzDat;50628539]Correct. The Palestinian casualties of war are exploited by Hamas to gain a strong political stance. Hamas AND the Palestinian Authority are OPENLY encouraging Palestinians to give their life away for the fight against Israel. And where does this lead? Hamas leader [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaled_Mashal]Khaled Mashal is enjoying the spoils in his 5 star hotel in Qatar[/url] and [url=http://europe.newsweek.com/palestinian-president-constructing-13m-palace-332061]Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas wants to construct a multi-million Palace in Ramallah despite being in a financial crisis.[/url] [B]How do you solve this conflict? In my opinion, Both governments (Israel and Palestine) need a change of leaders.[/B] Netanyahu should be kicked out for continuing the building of illegal settlements and Hamas has to be completely dismantled and be replaced with a more moderate government that will cooperate with Israel [B]and with its own Palestinian citizens.[/B] Once a more moderate Palestinian government will be in power, they can start rebuilding and take care of themselves without help of international aid. After that a more friendly relationship built on trust will be formed between the two states and soon enough, the blockade will be lifted and Palestinians will finally have the power to live independently as a nation. [B]To gain sovereignty, both sides need to acknowledge the fact that they are here to stay.[/B][/QUOTE] After all these years, Zionist still refuse to see that Palestine response is not the doing of it's leader, its the collective will of the people. Changing leaders won't change a thing. To Palestine, Zionist are foreign invader, which is not wrong. Zionist very presence in the land, is the thing that they wanted to get rid off, which is very natural. But of course, for Zionist, the only thing that can never be done, is come to term that they are the foreign pathogen. A half-century denial of that fact is necessary for the conquest. In normal occurence in post dark age, taking over another country is the last thing that any group of people will do. Migrations and assimilation to accepting countries are far more viable choice. But somehow through USA influence, the madness was permitted. Zionist brought this upon themselves. They are the instigator, they are the perpetuator. But Zionist is well aware that they will eventually win, assuming USA is still their go-to big guy. Who need UN advice, or morals, when you have a superpower as bosom buddy.
[QUOTE=hakimhakim;50628616]After all these years, Zionist still refuse to see that Palestine response is not the doing of it's leader, its the collective will of the people. Changing leaders won't change a thing. To Palestine, Zionist are foreign invader, which is not wrong. Zionist very presence in the land, is the thing that they wanted to get rid off, which is very natural. But of course, for Zionist, the only thing that can never be done, is come to term that they are the foreign pathogen. A half-century denial of that fact is necessary for the conquest. In normal occurence in post dark age, taking over another country is the last thing that any group of people will do. Migrations and assimilation to accepting countries are far more viable choice. But somehow through USA influence, the madness was permitted. Zionist brought this upon themselves. They are the instigator, they are the perpetuator. But Zionist is well aware that they will eventually win, assuming USA is still their go-to big guy. Who need UN advice, or morals, when you have a superpower as bosom buddy.[/QUOTE] Your choice. You can either complain about "teh evil zionists!!11" all day or find a solution. I'm interested in finding a non-violent solution, so enough of your whining and grow up.
[QUOTE=RzDat;50628653]Your choice. You can either complain about "teh evil zionists!!11" all day or find a solution. I'm interested in finding a non-violent solution, so enough of your whining and grow up.[/QUOTE] Excepting that the only 'solutions' that you are keen to find, are the ones that will not be against your conquest.
[QUOTE=hakimhakim;50628616]After all these years, Zionist still refuse to see that Palestine response is not the doing of it's leader, its the collective will of the people. Changing leaders won't change a thing. To Palestine, Zionist are foreign invader, which is not wrong. Zionist very presence in the land, is the thing that they wanted to get rid off, which is very natural. But of course, for Zionist, the only thing that can never be done, is come to term that they are the foreign pathogen. A half-century denial of that fact is necessary for the conquest. In normal occurence in post dark age, taking over another country is the last thing that any group of people will do. Migrations and assimilation to accepting countries are far more viable choice. But somehow through USA influence, the madness was permitted. Zionist brought this upon themselves. They are the instigator, they are the perpetuator. But Zionist is well aware that they will eventually win, assuming USA is still their go-to big guy. Who need UN advice, or morals, when you have a superpower as bosom buddy.[/QUOTE] Good merciful fuck, dude. I don't like Israel's current policies towards Palestine and I detest their current government, but Christ. Both parties commit violence against the other. It's cyclical. Calling Jews pathogens isn't going to help find a peaceful solution. PNI's the only decent way to achieve peaceful resolution in my opinion. We need diplomacy, not fearmongering about Zionist pathogens and certainly not discounting the struggles of the Palestinin people.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50628652]What? Who is "the Zionist" entity? There is a Jewish presence on Palestine, and "geting rid of that" is genocide. [/QUOTE] Please read on things that you're discussing about please. Preferably before you speak. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism[/url] [QUOTE]Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת Tsiyyonut IPA: [t͡sijo̞ˈnut] after Zion) is a nationalist and political movement of Jews and Jewish culture that supports the re-establishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel (roughly corresponding to Palestine, Canaan or the Holy Land) Advocates of Zionism view it as a national liberation movement for the repatriation of a persecuted people residing as minorities in a variety of nations to their ancestral homeland.[11][12][13] Critics of Zionism view it as a colonialist,[14] racist[15] and exceptionalist[16] ideology that led advocates to violence during Mandatory Palestine, followed by the forced exodus of Palestinians, and the subsequent denial of their human rights. [/QUOTE] It's currently genocidal enough for Palestinian for what's its worth.
I want to point out, while everyone is posting terrorist groups, some of the most revered and effective "resistance movements" (terrorists) were spearheaded by Christian leaders. [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Habash"]George Habash[/URL], an orthodox Christian who fomented [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Habash#Black_September"]Black September[/URL] had a very powerful role among Palestinian resistance movements and in some cases, sat side-by-side with Yasser Arafat. [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Habash#Popular_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine"]Habash founded the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine[/URL] and was the secretary-general of Palestine Front until he recently resigned due to health in 2000. He is a highly-venerated figure among Palestinians. I bring this up because whether the Palestinians are atheist, Christian or Jewish, a Hamas would still spring up attempting to use religious justification to incite morale and motivation. I also bring this up preemptively as many people erroneously believe that Palestinian resistance against the occupation is rooted as an Islamic problem ("kill anyone who is not Muslim or kill all Jews") and not due to political reasons. Many Christians and secular Palestinians held top leadership roles in the well-known Palestinian factions. A lot of Israel-proponents are often seen attempting to dismiss legitimate Palestinian grievances by saying the problem is not rooted in the occupation but because of Islam. This has been unequivocally false. If the Palestinians were Jews, a Jewish Hamas alternative would also spring up.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50628820]I know what Zionism is, you condescending ...person. How is Zionism a singular entity, when it is an ideology, and how is it present on Palestine, when Israel is present and is a democratic republic? [/QUOTE] Zionism is an ideology. Zionists are a group of people adhering to said ideology. Zionism is an ideology. Zionist is an entity/person, formed by individual who adopt zionism. Zionism and zionist present in this world even before Zionist subjugates Palestine. The people that are forming Israel now, are Zionist. Zionist can be present anywhere, inside or outside Israel. [I](I can't believe I'm explaining this)[/I] Israel is not originally considered a legal country at the beginning. A large part of the world was opposed to it as it's basically an invasion to Palestine, but it was legalized anyway due to influence of USA due to it's lobbyist. But of course this fact will be denied wholeheartedly by Zionist. Who wouldn't, when it's basically denying the rationality of the foundation of their country?
Can we stop talking about "Zionist" and "Zionism?" When I see someone instituting the word "Zionist" excessively (the above post used the worst Zionism/Zionist a total of 12 times in his short post) I can't help but think that person holds conspiratorial notions regarding Zionism. You can say Zionist a couple times without looking weird, but when you start making posts like this: [QUOTE=hakimhakim;50628616]After all these years, [B]Zionist still refuse[/B] to see that Palestine response is not the doing of it's leader, its the collective will of the people. Changing leaders won't change a thing. To Palestine, [B]Zionist are foreign invader[/B], which is not wrong. [B]Zionist very presence in the land[/B], is the thing that they wanted to get rid off, which is very natural. But of course,[B] for Zionist[/B], the only thing that can never be done, is come to term that they are the foreign pathogen. A half-century denial of that fact is necessary for the conquest. In normal occurence in post dark age, taking over another country is the last thing that any group of people will do. Migrations and assimilation to accepting countries are far more viable choice. But somehow through USA influence, the madness was permitted. [B]Zionist brought this upon themselves.[/B] They are the instigator, they are the perpetuator. [B]But Zionist is well aware [/B]that they will eventually win, assuming USA is still their go-to big guy. Who need UN advice, or morals, when you have a superpower as bosom buddy.[/QUOTE] I can't help but wonder if you subscribe to Zionist conspiracy theories.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;50628999]Can we stop talking about "Zionist" and "Zionism?" When I see someone instituting the word "Zionist" excessively (the above post used the worst Zionism/Zionist a total of 12 times in his short post) I can't help but think that person holds conspiratorial notions regarding Zionism. You can say Zionist a couple times without looking weird, but when you start making posts like this: I can't help but wonder if you subscribe to Zionist conspiracy theories.[/QUOTE] I coin the term 'Zionist', because I'm referring to that group of people who are doing what they do. I cannot use the term 'Jewish', It's wrong to blame Jewish people as a whole. A lot of Jewish people leads an upstanding life in other countries other than Israel, assimilating with their neighbours, without having to do what Zionists do. It's unfair, and wrong, to use the term Jewish in our context, when only a portion of people who are in the wrong. Either that, or Israel.
[QUOTE=hakimhakim;50629041] A lot of Jewish people leads an upstanding life in other countries other than Israel, assimilating with their neighbours, without having to do what Zionists do.[/QUOTE] Sorry to break it to you pal but a lot of my co-workers are Arab muslims. Lots of people here get along well with the Arab population.
Zionist
[QUOTE=RzDat;50629063]Sorry to break it to you pal but a lot of my co-workers are Arab muslims. Lots of people here get along well with the Arab population.[/QUOTE] In that case, it's not you who assimilates with them. THEY are assimilating with you. They are doing a good job, maintaining the peace, when they move into other's area. But I cannot say them same as when you move into Palestine area.
[QUOTE=hakimhakim;50629102]In that case, it's not you who assimilates with them. THEY are assimilating with you. They are doing a good job, maintaining the peace, when they move into other's area. But I cannot say them same as when you move into Palestine area.[/QUOTE] I think you need to get over the fact that the Israelis will never move out of Palestine lmao
[QUOTE=hakimhakim;50629102]In that case, it's not you who assimilates with them. THEY are assimilating with you. They are doing a good job, maintaining the peace, when they move into other's area. But I cannot say them same as when you move into Palestine area.[/QUOTE] You're something special, aren't you? :what:
Guys, he regularly uses "pathogen" or "disease" or "pus" -- not to mention Zionism even when it isn't appropriate to what he's describing -- to describe not only Israel but Jews in general and anyone who even tries to say that Palestine isn't absolutely perfect. Either he's completely blinded and insane, or he's a really good troll. Either way he isn't worth anyone's time.
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