[QUOTE]Sorry to bust your dreams here, scientists have debunked the myth once and for all, and shown that, while some people can become an expert with 10,000 hours of practice - or less - many can't, and there's a whole lot more involved than just hard work. In fact, an international team of psychologists found that deliberate practice can only explain around one-third of the difference in skill levels in chess players and musicians.
The researchers came to this conclusion after analysing data taken across six previous studies of chess competitions (1,082 subjects in total) and eight studies of musicians (628 subjects), and looking for any kind of correlation between practice and success. What they found was that, well, there kinda wasn't one, and there were huge variations in how much of a role practice seemed to have played in success.
Journal:
[URL]http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289614000087[/URL]
Source:
[URL]http://www.sciencealert.com/science-finds-that-10-000-hours-of-practice-doesn-t-make-you-an-expert-sorry[/URL][/QUOTE]
Who needs perfect? If everything was perfect can you imagine how boring that would be?
Practicing well is better then practicing because lazy practice picking up flaws can occur. It's what I've been told about practicing music.
[QUOTE=Megadave;47322848]Who needs perfect? If everything was perfect can you imagine how boring that would be?[/QUOTE]
[img]http://imagineeringnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/the-point.jpg[/img]
The article implies the skill of people can be affected by more than just practice.
Anecdotally, agreed, talent and different methods of practice/learning makes a huge difference.
So, you need an inherent knack for higher levels of skill in certain activities and such.
[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;47322885]So, you need an inherent knack for higher levels of skill in certain activities and such.[/QUOTE]
In addition to difference in learning ability, so to say that learning itself is a skill. Any skill has its own tone.
well duh.
[I]perfect[/I] practice makes perfect
this means none of you will ever be good at sex no matter what
If you have the capability to adapt and learn things, you will become pretty damn good if you put the hours in. Not sure how these scientists could possible measure equal practice among all participants or how they practiced. It might take someone longer than another, sure, but thats most likey because the other person had a learning experience similar already which can transfer over.
It depends on how you practice and study. Personally I find mnemonics work well for me, but I have friends who get confused by them and prefer rote memorization, for example. I prefer a hands-on approach, picking stuff apart and back together, and some others study much quicker with a comprehensive guide in their hand.
If you're studying wrong, you're wasting time compared to someone who figured out what works. So basically, practice smarter, not harder, I guess.
EDIT: not to mention muscle memory plays a large part as well. Sometimes completely unrelated skills end up helping each other. Apparently the movements I learned for years playing ping pong are the same for fencing. If you just look at how hard I practice fencing 101 compared to others who practice harder than me, you might think "oh he's more talented, practice doesn't matter" but really I've been practicing the movements in an unrelated sport for year, which is not always obvious at first.
well, learning is a skill on it's own
obviously someone who is better at learning would need less practice
[editline]14th March 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=deltasquid;47323057]not to mention muscle memory plays a large part as well. Sometimes completely unrelated skills end up helping each other. Apparently the movements I learned for years playing ping pong are the same for fencing. If you just look at how hard I practice fencing 101 compared to others who practice harder than me, you might think "oh he's more talented, practice doesn't matter" but really I've been practicing the movements in an unrelated sport for year, which is not always obvious at first.[/QUOTE]
you're completely right, in this situation you are relying on something called [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_and_crystallized_intelligence]crystallized intelligence[/url]
meaning you are using acquired knowledge or skill from ping pong to practice fencing
Whoever has played games like Dota, World of Tanks or War Thunder knows that well.
Some people accumulate ridiculous amounts of playtime yet they can still objectively be massive irredeemable shitters.
"Practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect."
-Mr. Boyer, 3rd grade music teacher
are you trying to tell me all this masturbating was for nothing?
i was just practising for the real thing.
sad amounts of times a day.
[QUOTE=Sableye;47322929]well duh.
[I]perfect[/I] practice makes perfect[/QUOTE]
Practice makes habits. You can still have a perfect shit practice, but you benefit nothing.
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;47323233]Whoever has played games like Dota, World of Tanks or War Thunder knows that well.
Some people accumulate ridiculous amounts of playtime yet they can still objectively be massive irredeemable shitters.[/QUOTE]
i knew this guy at school who had 3,300 hours of dota and was 2400mmr, he suggested i start playing. i played 700 hours and got 4000 mmr. he told me i play too much. i mean what
B-but my blank slate view
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;47323009]this means none of you will ever be good at sex no matter what[/QUOTE]
Join the club, you're one of us after all.
Some people are more adapt to certain things than others, both physically and mentally. Everyone is not equal, everyone has their own skills and abilities.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;47323244]"Practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect."
-Mr. Boyer, 3rd grade music teacher[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Sableye;47322929]well duh.
[I]perfect[/I] practice makes perfect[/QUOTE]
Class reunion, yay
the phrase was never correct
practice makes "you less likely to do 'x' incorrectly"
There's obviously too much variance in practice methods for the 10000 hours thing to be true. If someone practices Chess against 5 year olds for 10000 hours, they'll suck compared to someone who practiced against players above their own skill level for 10000 hours. I don't see how analyzing hour counts could be useful in this sense.
[QUOTE=Megadave;47322848]Who needs perfect? If everything was perfect can you imagine how boring that would be?[/QUOTE]
This isn't about world peace or an ideal communist society, it's about skill
In music 15 minutes of focussed practice is far better than 2 hours of passively playing through the piece; It's not how much time you put in it's how you use it.
Out of personal experience I've found if you don't approach something properly, you can actually develope bad habits which take longer to unlearn than if you just spent more time on slowly approaching it in the first place. Once you've locked down a good routine and learn how to tackle problems, you can achieve so much more.
[QUOTE=Code3Response;47323261]Practice makes habits. You can still have a perfect shit practice, but you benefit nothing.[/QUOTE]
ya thats what my band teacher always said, but really any practice helps
Its not "practice makes perfect," but "perfect practice makes perfect playing."
[quote]This leaves "the majority of the reliable variance [b]unexplained[/b] and [b]potentially[/b] explainable by other factors", the team wrote in the journal Intelligence last year, where their results were published. Those factors, we're [b]assuming[/b], are natural talent and genetic ability.
The researchers came to this conclusion after analysing data taken across six previous studies of chess competitions (1,082 subjects in total) and eight studies of musicians (628 subjects), and [b]looking for any kind of correlation[/b] between practice and success. What they found was that, well, [b]there kinda wasn't one[/b], and there were huge variations in how much of a role practice seemed to have played in success.[/quote]
There are so many variables in this type of study that there's no way that everything outside of practice was controlled in the research collected. While it shows the role of practice within the sample, it's a stretch to even correlate the two at this point.
[URL="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Talent-Overrated-Separates-World-Class-Performers/dp/1857885198"]Talent is Overrated[/URL] is a fantastic and very informative book/audio-book on deliberate practice if anyone's interested.
Now I don't have to feel bad about my CSGO ranking
Well, that's why I play punk rock.
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