Bill would let schools teach Bible literacy (in Kentucky)
89 replies, posted
[QUOTE]FRANKFORT — Three Democratic state senators are pushing a proposal to give public schools the option of teaching the Bible as an elective social studies course.
The class would "teach students knowledge of biblical content, characters, poetry and narratives that are pre requisites to understanding contemporary society and culture," said Sen. David Boswell, D- Owensboro, the primary sponsor of Senate Bill 142.
Boswell, a Catholic, said the bill is intended to teach Bible literacy as an academic course, "not as the only religion," but opponents labeled the proposal an unconstitutional "back-door approach to teaching religion."
Edwin F. Kagin, national legal director of American Atheists, called the measure "a rampant violation of the separation of church and state."
Kagin, of Union in Boone County, said students certainly should know biblical references, such as David and Goliath. "But if the Bible is taught in schools, it should only be taught as mythology, and I don't think that is what this bill wants."
Boswell acknowledged that the proposal probably also will bring criticism from those who would favor the teaching of other religious texts, such as the Quran.
"Since the Bible has played such a big role in our literature, I thought I would go with that," he said.
Boswell stressed that the proposed Bible class would be an elective. The state Department of Education would have to come up with regulations to implement the course, and school-based decision-making councils would have to sign off on it, he said.
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[URL="http://www.kentucky.com/latest-news/article44022741.html"]Source[/URL]
I don't understand why the types of people who spout that they're all about protecting and coveting the constitution (conservatives) are all about breaking one of the most fundamental values of it. Why the people who claim to be all about small government are comfortable with giving it more power/responsibility by outsourcing something that should be taught by parents and churches to public education like this. I understand it was pushed by Democratic senators but a democrat in Kentucky is wildly different from a democrat in say New York or California. Kentucky Democrats are very conservative (most the time) and most of the time vote Republican in national elections as opposed to Democrats. This is one angle of modern American conservatism I don't understand at all. I guess I can say at least its an elective as opposed to a requirement. Fuck the state I live in.
They know what they're doing, dude. They're not delusional or idiots or anything. They know exactly what they're doing which makes it all the more despicable.
And Trump, if elected, is going to let states run their schools.
This shit will become more common, and the average person in the US who relies on public education, will become a blithering idiot unable to fit into a modern society.
I don't see why this is so terrible? It seems like they're only trying to teach it from a purely literary perspective, as if it were a story, in the context of helping to understand the myriad biblical references in literature. Plus it's an optional elective.
[QUOTE]Boswell stressed that the proposed Bible class would be an elective. The state Department of Education would have to come up with regulations to implement the course, and school-based decision-making councils would have to sign off on it, he said.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]The class would "teach students knowledge of biblical content, characters, poetry and narratives that are pre requisites to understanding contemporary society and culture,"[/QUOTE]
I actually see nothing wrong with this.
[QUOTE=KingOfScience;49913803]I don't see why this is so terrible? It seems like they're only trying to teach it from a purely literary perspective, as if it were a story, in the context of helping to understand the myriad biblical references in literature. Plus it's an optional elective.[/QUOTE]
It's treading a very dangerous line in the best of circumstances, and it would be better not to have it at all. My required history courses covered world religions just fine. Having a class focused on the main religious text of only one religion, which so happens to be both the major religion of the US and the holy book of the religion of the primary sponsor of the bill seems like a huge conflict of interest if you want a secular curriculum.
[QUOTE=KingOfScience;49913803]I don't see why this is so terrible? It seems like they're only trying to teach it from a purely literary perspective, as if it were a story, in the context of helping to understand the myriad biblical references in literature. Plus it's an optional elective.[/QUOTE]
I don't really trust them when they say that though. I'm not really sure I can really trust that the intention is what they say it is.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;49913823]It's treading a very dangerous line in the best of circumstances, and it would be better not to have it at all. My required history courses covered world religions just fine. Having a class focused on the main religious text of only one religion, which so happens to be both the major religion of the US and the holy book of the religion of the primary sponsor of the bill seems like a huge conflict of interest if you want a secular curriculum.[/QUOTE]
This guy says it perfectly.
Considering that in terms of influence upon society it's pretty obvious that studying the bible would go a fair way towards furthering your knowledge of many aspects of society. I don't see any particular problems with this, although it would be good to include other influential religious and philosophical texts as well.
I wouldn't see anything wrong with this [I]if[/I] this was actually an objective study from a literary perspective. Unfortunately; I don't have that kind of faith in the people who are proposing this as a class.
This isn't really violating any constitutional law. I still don't agree with it being a thing even though it's optional.
I thought this was talking about Slick Willie Jeff from the title.
It's an elective course. If people want to study the Bible, that's great. It's an extremely important book and its influence is scattered all over Western literature and culture.
[QUOTE=Solomon;49913743]They know what they're doing, dude. They're not delusional or idiots or anything. They know exactly what they're doing which makes it all the more despicable.[/QUOTE]
Let's dispel with the fiction that Republicans don't know what they're doing. They know exactly what they're doing.
You don't go into politics because you want to be a good person, after all.
[QUOTE=Da Bomb76;49913901]I thought this was talking about Slick Willie Jeff from the title.
It's an elective course. If people want to study the Bible, that's great. It's an extremely important book and its influence is scattered all over Western literature and culture.[/QUOTE]
I had the option to take Bible Literacy in highschool. The students it attracted were the type you would expect; hardcore, bible-thumping christians. It was basically just a christian club from what I've heard. If there were Torah History class and Quran History class, I would settle with that, but this is clearly leaning towards one particular religion. All it will take is someone to take it to the supreme court, say "There need to be religious alternative classes too, then!", and Kentucky with withdraw the entire legislate because of their petty fear of other religions.
My high school had a after school bible studies club, and this bill proposes a optional course. It sounds more like a reading comprehension class that uses the bible as a tool to teach said comprehension since a lot of different Christians have their own interpretations of it.
It treads a dangerous line, but nothing about it is really unconstitutional if it's up to the local schools to establish such courses.
If there's anything America sorely needs with its widespread Islamophobia, it's a Quran literacy class.
Optional Quran class please.
[QUOTE] The class would "teach students knowledge of biblical content, characters, poetry and narratives that are pre requisites to understanding contemporary society and culture," said Sen. David Boswell, D- Owensboro, the primary sponsor of Senate Bill 142.[/QUOTE]
What do the fables of desert tribesmen that lived thousands of years ago per-requisites to understanding the society of today?
I don't care that it's optional, I wouldn't want my tax dollars that should be going to empirical education of the next generation being spent pushing religion. Let the parents deal with their children's "spirituality" and if that doesn't suffice than take theology in college.
Huh, learn something new every day, in the UK we have a thing called RE (Religious Education) that basically teaches you about all the varied aspects of all the different religions, didn't realize a significantly big country with so many different religions, though mainly Christianity, like America didn't have that.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49913996]What do the fables of desert tribesmen that lived thousands of years ago per-requisites to understanding the society of today? [/QUOTE]
To be fair, we could also probably ask what relevance the ramblings of some insane Greeks from the iron age have today. A lot of western society and culture is heavily built upon all sorts of various religions and mythologies (primarily christian and indo-european). I mean you really don't have to go looking very hard to see the number of things in society which link back to religion in some capacity. Even the days of the week and everyday phrases we use have some sort of basis in religion.
If you want a deep and thorough understanding of western civilization, you should at least have some knowledge of Christianity - much like how its impossible to fully understand India without Hinduism or China without reference to Confucian philosophy.
I mean, a lot of medieval to modern western literature has allusions and references to Biblical stories and passages. If this was done from a literary stand point, it wouldn't be bad. I went to a public school in California and our textbook had 1 or 2 parables from the book of Matthew because it was relevant to the course in terms of storytelling.
Honestly, reading as much as you can is good especially when your entire civilization's literature was in some small part affected by a religious text. Shakespeare has a ton of references and allusions to the Bible and the characters in it but some kids might not understand the source and therefore lose a bit of the reading as well.
We let kids read ancient greek/roman/sumerian/cartharginian/viking holy texts as stories, why not let them read bible [U]as long as it's for literary instruction and not doctrinal.[/U]
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49913996]Optional Quran class please.
What do the fables of desert tribesmen that lived thousands of years ago per-requisites to understanding the society of today?
I don't care that it's optional, I wouldn't want my tax dollars that should be going to empirical education of the next generation being spent pushing religion. Let the parents deal with their children's "spirituality" and if that doesn't suffice than take theology in college.[/QUOTE]
You do realize that to understand the history of Europe, you have to at least know a bit about Christianity? Western society is built upon Judeo-Christian values which are derived from the Bible.I mean, how do you understand such important events such as the Great Schism when you don't know the most basic parts of the bible?
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49913996]Optional Quran class please.
[b]What do the fables of desert tribesmen that lived thousands of years ago per-requisites to understanding the society of today?[/b]
I don't care that it's optional, I wouldn't want my tax dollars that should be going to empirical education of the next generation being spent pushing religion. Let the parents deal with their children's "spirituality" and if that doesn't suffice than take theology in college.[/QUOTE]
Really? The bible is one of the most influential books of all time, especially in Western culture. The amount of classic art and literature derived from its themes are countless. A lot of contemporary work parallels biblical stories and themes too. Studying the bible can greatly deepen your understanding of a lot of facets of Western society: namely media and entertainment but also common values and even law.
I'm not even religious but you really can't deny the significance of the bible.
Basically what the three guys above me said.
I took a Boble Lit class in my senior year. The teacher was supposedly a fundie, but she really didn't show it. The class just looked at the Bible for its metaphors, effect on literature and art, and so on. Actually learned a lot.
Class was diverse, and the teacher would pretty often joke about the more ridiculous stuff, so t was a good environment.
-snip, merge-
Most people already know enough about the bible just by living in the western world; an entire course wouldn't add much as far as its contributions to society.
There is some literary merit to studying religious texts, but [I]only[/I] studying the bible on the grounds that it will add to your understanding of society is complete bullshit.
[QUOTE=BelatedGamer;49914189]Most people already know enough about the bible just by living in the western world; an entire course wouldn't add much as far as its contributions to society.
There is some literary merit to studying religious texts, but [I]only[/I] studying the bible one the grounds that it will add to your understanding of society is complete bullshit.[/QUOTE]
I'd argue that there are enough references to more obscure texts that it has merit. You really could make the same argument about Shakespeare or other famous works anyway. Everyone knows the basic story of Romeo and Juliet but we still offer courses that study it and for good reason.
Also, an objective analysis of the bible can actually dissuade a lot of people away from Christianity. The road goes both ways assuming that the class is taught the way the guy in the article describes it so I really don't think it would serve to indoctrinate students -- especially as an optional elective.
[QUOTE=BelatedGamer;49914189]Most people already know enough about the bible just by living in the western world; an entire course wouldn't add much as far as its contributions to society.
There is some literary merit to studying religious texts, but [I]only[/I] studying the bible on the grounds that it will add to your understanding of society is complete bullshit.[/QUOTE]
You're vastly overestimating how much people actually know about the bible. Yes everyone knows OF the Bible and certain elements of it but a huge amount of people know next to nothing about most it's actual content
I see no problem with this. Students should be encouraged to read a myriad of religious literature if for no reason other than to better understand how religious people think.
[QUOTE=BelatedGamer;49914189]Most people already know enough about the bible just by living in the western world; an entire course wouldn't add much as far as its contributions to society.[/QUOTE]
Are you sure? A lot of people haven't read even a single book of it, let alone the whole thing. I don't get how you can argue that a lot of people know enough when there's a vast amount in there nobody really knows about (or can immediately recall).
Christianity itself was and in many ways continues to be the foundation of western civilization. It is a book that was somehow the only thing that ended up connecting together a vast number of completely different peoples (some not even in the same language families) and in many ways provided the framework upon which the civilization that replaced the last one arose.
Also this could lead to the "Penn Jillette" effect of creating atheists by having them read the bible.
[QUOTE=luverofJ!93;49914231]You're vastly overestimating how much people actually know about the bible. Yes everyone knows OF the Bible and certain elements of it but a huge amount of people know next to nothing about most it's actual content[/QUOTE]
Of course most people know next to nothing about its actual content, what I'm saying is that most of it's actual content is irrelevant to society today except for the things that most people already know.
And I'm not using this as an excuse to keep an optional class out of schools -- I'm responding directly to a specific reason often given for why it belongs in schools.
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