• Four of world's biggest cities to ban diesel cars from their centers by 2025
    29 replies, posted
[quote]Four of the world’s biggest cities are to ban diesel vehicles from their centres within the next decade, as a means of tackling air pollution, with campaigners urging other city leaders to follow suit. [B]The mayors of Paris, Madrid, Athens and Mexico City announced plans on Friday to take diesel cars and vans off their roads by 2025.[/B] Anne Hidalgo, mayor of Paris, led the initiative at the C40 conference of mayors on climate change, taking place in Mexico this week. She said: “Mayors have already stood up to say that climate change is one of the greatest challenges we face. Today, we also stand up to say we no longer tolerate air pollution and the health problems and deaths it causes, particularly for our most vulnerable citizens.” “Soot from diesel vehicles is among the big contributors to ill health and global warming,” added Helena Molin Valdés, head of the United Nations’ climate and clean air coalition, noting that more than nine out of 10 people around the globe live where air pollution exceeds World Health Organisation safety limits.[/quote] [url]https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/dec/02/four-of-worlds-biggest-cities-to-ban-diesel-cars-from-their-centres[/url]
This is some good progress.
The Europeans do many things right, so it's no wonder that we tend to copy Europe a lot here. But god damn, the whole Diesel car craze in Europe was just a disaster. Hopefully more mayors follow suit.
You better hope electric semi trucks make leaps in advancement then.
[QUOTE=Aide;51462280]You better hope electric semi trucks make leaps in advancement then.[/QUOTE] Electric semi's for inter city use should be completely fine by 2025. Completely different from long hauls.
[QUOTE=Aide;51462280]You better hope electric semi trucks make leaps in advancement then.[/QUOTE] Do you really think that semis drive through city centres? Haha
Wonder if diesel car prices will drop due to this.
[QUOTE=Aide;51462280]You better hope electric semi trucks make leaps in advancement then.[/QUOTE] Do you normally see big tractor trailers in the big city?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51462302]Do you normally see big tractor trailers in the big city?[/QUOTE] My take at least on American cities is that it comes down to each individual city's layout. For example here in Chicago you will not see full on tractor trailer combination vehicles in the downtown area, and if you do they're there because of a special delivery or pickup. Most of the time large and heavy vehicles will make their way to distribution centers near the city, then more city appropriate vehicles like straight trucks or delivery vans will take care of the rest. Most cities are extremely hazardous for full size semi trucks because there's many roads where those vehicles cannot go on. In Chicago there's plenty of viaducts and low bridges that aren't even marked properly, and if they are marked many of them have been repaved underneath but their height markers not updated. You can come to the city one year and pass through just fine but the next it will be two inches shorter due to repaving and suddenly you just shaved the top of your trailers off. In smaller "cities" like Des Moines you can deliver deeper into the city than Chicago. source: i am a truck driver
Couldn't this backfire if biodiesel ever becomes popular?
[QUOTE=Fhenexx;51462461]Couldn't this backfire if biodiesel ever becomes popular?[/QUOTE] If biodiesel is anything like natural gas, you'll still get carbon emissions but fewer air pollutants that come with burning the fuel. The only promise I see with biodiesel is with microbial production, but before that takes off the corn industry needs to be killed off because it is leading the biofuels market despite corn being a horribly inefficient way to produce fuel.
This "may" seem like a good progress but Diesel is not as bad as people make them out to be. They are heavily regulated already and with DEF systems in most new trucks these days, they do not put out as much pollutants as a normal petrol vehicle. Diesel is actually very efficient for how much torque is needed to haul loads of product like they do, plus Diesel cars (like audi and VW Diesel cars) gets amazing gas mileage and therefore burn less fuel per MPG than typical petrol car. Improvements and regulations on this topic is always good, but you can never get rid of combustion engines. The Prius manufacturing process is more harmful to the earth than just running a regular efficient 4cyl engine. Also the more restrictions and regulation to the transporting of mass good will always raise the price of product even more. The cheaper the product can make it to the shelves, the cheaper the product on the shelves will be. No doubt that this all electric shift is going to be rough for the logistics of our economy. Plus we need to make the process of mining Lithium and other battery innards to be not as harmful to the planet.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51462302]Do you normally see big tractor trailers in the big city?[/QUOTE] Yes. You need to move cargo some how. My job is apart of Logistics chain. Also gas/petrol and diesel are all carried by semi trucks to there final destination. Think of all the goods that travel by semi truck. I guess my issue is with the use of the word 'center'.
[QUOTE=Minimal;51462503]This "may" seem like a good progress but Diesel is not as bad as people make them out to be. They are heavily regulated already and with DEF systems in most new trucks these days, they do not put out as much pollutants as a normal petrol vehicle. Diesel is actually very efficient for how much torque is needed to haul loads of product like they do, plus Diesel cars (like audi and VW Diesel cars) gets amazing gas mileage and therefore burn less fuel per MPG than typical petrol car. Improvements and regulations on this topic is always good, but you can never get rid of combustion engines. The Prius manufacturing process is more harmful to the earth than just running a regular efficient 4cyl engine. Also the more restrictions and regulation to the transporting of mass good will always raise the price of product even more. The cheaper the product can make it to the shelves, the cheaper the product on the shelves will be. No doubt that this all electric shift is going to be rough for the logistics of our economy. Plus we need to make the process of mining Lithium and other battery innards to be not as harmful to the planet.[/QUOTE] It's by 2025, not by tomorrow. There's plenty of time for logistic companies to plan out how they're going to deal with this. And, if regulating polluting vehicles is good, then banning is always better.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51462302]Do you normally see big tractor trailers in the big city?[/QUOTE] What else carries in all the shit that people use/buy/eat? Depends on the city of course, but most mall complexes have a route for semis to get in.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;51462544]What else carries in all the shit that people use/buy/eat? Depends on the city of course, but most mall complexes have a route for semis to get in.[/QUOTE] [t]https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/white-delivery-van-white-drop-shadow-24128764.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51462567][t]https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/white-delivery-van-white-drop-shadow-24128764.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] Alternatively, you can be a bit more economical as well. [t]http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/gallery/MERCURYVillager-3429_1.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;51462544]What else carries in all the shit that people use/buy/eat? Depends on the city of course, but most mall complexes have a route for semis to get in.[/QUOTE] Semi goes to a logistics center on the outskirts if the city. Then a smaller truck distributes the stuff aroudn the city.
[QUOTE=gukki;51462679]Semi goes to a logistics center on the outskirts if the city. Then a smaller truck distributes the stuff aroudn the city.[/QUOTE] Yeah this is how it works in most real big cities I've been to. There ain't room for big semi's in the city, everything is done via straight trucks from the dist center.
I don't support this "ban" philosophy at all. I'd have hoped that by 2025 electric cars will have gained so much market traction that strong-arming and bullying diesel drivers in these urban centers into ditching their diesel would be a useless measure. Europe is always like this when it comes to these things and I hate it.
How will this affect people who own diesel vehicles? Do they have to rid the vehicles themselves or is there some outlet to do so via this ban?
Well better get rid of my high efficiency low-emission 2.0 diesel and buy a v8 Hummer instead then for city driving, because they're obviously way less polluting.
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;51462908]I don't support this "ban" philosophy at all. I'd have hoped that by 2025 electric cars will have gained so much market traction that strong-arming and bullying diesel drivers in these urban centers into ditching their diesel would be a useless measure. Europe is always like this when it comes to these things and I hate it.[/QUOTE] I think these have always been the case when it's an environmental concern. Same thing happened to CFCs.
they realllly should wait for market saturation first also isn't diesel more efficient when it comes to gallon to mile ratio? [editline]2nd December 2016[/editline] er mile to greehouse emissions
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51462322]Athens and Madrid arent "one of worlds biggest" but apart from that, cant complain If Mexico City accomplishes it no city in Europe will have any excuses TBH[/QUOTE] They might not be the biggest, but they certainly pollute a lot. In my Greek high school chemistry textbook it was stated that Athens was pretty much in the top 5 most polluting cities in terms of car emissions. That said, I have no source on that, so if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
[QUOTE=Yellowamoeba;51463017]Well better get rid of my high efficiency low-emission 2.0 diesel and buy a v8 Hummer instead then for city driving, because they're obviously way less polluting.[/QUOTE] Actually, ironically, that V8 is probably cleaner than a Diesel in terms of NOx and particulate matter emissions; some of the most dangerous emissions that can come from a car's exhaust. That's why emissions regulations place limits on how much of those can be emitted, as opposed to limiting carbon emissions. But it would go without saying that a comparable petrol engine would be far better in terms of those emissions. If you're still worried about fuel consumption? Automakers have made long strides with petrol engines, eg the petrol cylinder-on-demand engine option in the Audi A3 has fuel consumption comparable to equivalent Diesel engines. [editline]3rd December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Map in a box;51463613]they realllly should wait for market saturation first also isn't diesel more efficient when it comes to gallon to mile ratio? [editline]2nd December 2016[/editline] er mile to greehouse emissions[/QUOTE] Diesels use less fuel than comparable petrol engines, and have lower carbon emissions, but they are very awful in terms of NOx and particulate matter emissions; the emissions that can directly cause health problems. Petrol engines have negligible particulate matter emissions, and only produce roughly half to two-thirds as much NOx.
[QUOTE=Yellowamoeba;51463017]Well better get rid of my high efficiency low-emission 2.0 diesel and buy a v8 Hummer instead then for city driving, because they're obviously way less polluting.[/QUOTE] Nah, at this rate all ICE vehicles will be getting banned in the future, the reason they're only banning petrols instead of all ICE vehicles now is because electric vehicles aren't a good substitute yet since they're still relatively expensive as shit and aren't commonplace but when electric vehicles pick up you can be damned sure an ICE ban will happen as well.
[QUOTE=Map in a box;51463613]they realllly should wait for market saturation first [/QUOTE] could be too little too late at that point, they're hoping for force it
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