• DAO likely to become largest crowdfunded project in history ($100m USD+)
    82 replies, posted
[quote]The Ethereum DAO crowdsale has been one of the most successful crowdfunding campaigns to date. DAO (Decentralized Autonomous Organization) created over the blockchain are the new generation of organizations or companies operating in a democratic fashion. The concept created by Ethereum protocol can be executed through smart contracts to carry out all the operations in an organization. The Ethereum Foundation recently created and launched its own DAO. In order to fund the operations of this decentralized organization created and introduced the crowdsale of its DAO tokens. These DAO tokens were made available to the cryptocurrency community for sale. The price of 100 DAO tokens is fixed at 1 Ether for the first two weeks of a month-long sale. After a fortnight, the price for the same amount of DAO token will be increased daily by 0.05 ETH only to finally sell it at 1.5 ETH per 100 tokens during the last 4 days of the crowdsale.[/quote] source: [url]http://www.newsbtc.com/2016/05/10/ethereum-dao-crowd-sale-successful-crowdfunding-campaign/[/url] source: [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_funded_crowdfunding_projects[/url] project: [url]https://daohub.org/[/url] It only needs to achieve another $15 million USD to overtake Star Citizen in the next 2 weeks, which seems fairly likely to happen given it has raised $97 million USD in the past 2 weeks. For clarity, this is more like a crowd sale/investment rather than crowd funding--you put in money and you get stocks/currency back.
is this like a bitcoin or something im reading up on it on their site and im still confused edit: so this is like a decentralized company that uses some sort of bitcoin to make people do stuff? what?
I don't get it
This makes very little sense other than it comes across as yet another cryptocurrency that I don't really give a fuck about. Unless theres a more simplified description of this somewhere and not the voodoo descriptive complex bullshit they have on their site that explains jackshit then I really don't get this at all. Also from the last line in the OP's quote, this can flop so hard from the control of expected value.
[url]http://themerkle.com/ethereum-project-the-dao-is-now-live/[/url] [quote]As great as this concept sounds on paper, more is needed to give this idea a proper business value. This is why The DAO has been created, a project that will provide a return on investment to the DAO and all of its members, as well as benefit the decentralized ecosystem. Voluntary participation, democracy are some of the primary points of focus found in The DAO manifesto.[/quote] [quote]It is important to keep in mind the DAO tokens are not just another digital currency. Owning these tokens gives holders the right to submit a Proposal requesting the ETH balance they are entitled to. Moreover, they may also retrieve proportional amounts of ETH not committed to a proposal, and holders retain rights to receive rewards from The DAO even after they leave the project.[/quote] [editline]14th May 2016[/editline] [url]http://www.coindesk.com/the-dao-just-raised-50-million-but-what-is-it/[/url] [quote]A distributed organization with no single leader that could theoretically exist so long as there’s an Internet connection was launched last month, and has since then left many observers and Ethereum community members feeling optimistic – if not a bit confused – about what exactly was created. 'The DAO', as it’s called, takes its name from the description for a new type of entity: a distributed autonomous organization. Intended to act as a vehicle for supporting Ethereum-related projects, The DAO has garnered over $50m worth of ethers (ETH) – the digital token of the Ethereum network – from investors. But what does The DAO do exactly? Think of it as a hub that disperses ETH to other startups and projects. Backers of The DAO receive voting rights by means of a digital token, which can be used to help determine the future direction of the organization and which projects will actually get funded following a voting period. Participants stand to receive possible dividends, including ether, in return for supporting the project.[/quote] [quote]Unlike a traditional company that has a designated managerial structure, The DAO operates through collective voting, and is owned by everyone who's purchased a DAO token. On top of that structure is a group of so-called Curators that can be elected or removed by DAO token holders. The current list of Curators include a number of well-connected Ethereum contributors including inventor Vitalik Buterin. The DAO’s objective is to support sharing economy projects delivered by "contractors" by allocating ETH raised during its creation phase. The project has currently raised $51.1m worth of ETH by selling tokens — or voting rights — in exchange for ETH or other returns.[/quote] In very, very simple terms: Pretty much, its something like investing in a kickstarter-fund where funds will be invested based upon votes (i.e. if I put $10 in I can tell Anita Sarkeesian to fuck off when she puts up a request)
is it like some kind of pseudo crowd funded capital investment firm thing that lets multiple people vote on stuff they want done and then invest into it with crypto currency or something? I'm really not understanding this [editline]14th May 2016[/editline] Why is there a Kickstarter for a crypto currency version of Kickstarter
so basically its the illuminati that just wants to make whatever shit it votes on or am i having a stroke
[QUOTE=Loriborn;50318589]is it like some kind of pseudo crowd funded capital investment firm thing that lets multiple people vote on stuff they want done and then invest into it with crypto currency or something? I'm really not understanding this [editline]14th May 2016[/editline] Why is there a Kickstarter for a crypto currency version of Kickstarter[/QUOTE] For any idea that isn't available just yet-- Some guy wants to do stem cell research? fund it. Some woman wants to research next-gen dragon dildo technology? maybe not fund it. Someone wants to start a project to create open source software for governments to use? fund it. This is basically leading us to the next gen of the next gen--we're talking Lyft, Uber, Dropbox, Mega, Gmail without the middle man. Want to pay for 312.23413 GB of storage for 6.84 hours? Pay exactly what it costs directly to who provides it--no one taking a 20% cut.
[QUOTE=icarusfoundyou;50318601]For any idea that isn't available just yet-- Some guy wants to do stem cell research? fund it. Some woman wants to research next-gen dragon dildo technology? maybe not fund it. Someone wants to start a project to create open source software for governments to use? fund it. This is basically leading us to the next gen of the next gen--we're talking Lyft, Uber, Dropbox, Mega, Gmail without the middle man. Want to pay for 312.23413 GB of storage for 6.84 hours? Pay exactly what it costs directly to who provides it--no one taking a 20% cut.[/QUOTE] The whole website and forum reeks of ultra libertarian pipe dreams of a new world of unheard cooperation; not to mention the vague techno-babble without any sort of actual descriptions of how this is supposed to work.
[QUOTE=Loriborn;50318621]There are a number of intrinsic failures of crypto currency in general, but trying to code stuff to force people to abide by their promises through "smart contracts" sounds fishy. That's the whole point of real contracts and legal paper trail; if you sign over a million to a guy to make a new car and the government knows and takes a small chunk to fund its needs, if said guy never delivers on that car and just spends it on hookers, you have legal or financial recourse depending on how you set it up. This whole system is just asking to be abused. The whole website and forum reeks of ultra libertarian pipe dreams of a new world of unheard cooperation; not to mention the vague techno-babble without any sort of actual descriptions of how this is supposed to work.[/QUOTE] You can also assign an arbitrator on many services. For digital services (i.e. DAO-like Steam, Dropbox etc) that is easy. Real life things are more admittedly difficult. WoT (Web of Trust) is an important and developing part of all this. Keep in mind how Darknet markets have been; no one argues they have worked to some extent--but they have always had a central provider who can screw everyone over. A DAO allows the same service but with no middle-man. [img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Marketlifetimes.png[/img] PS: this is happening at the same time that the SWIFT network has been hacked/engineered: [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/13/business/dealbook/swift-global-bank-network-attack.html?_r=0[/url]
[QUOTE=Loriborn;50318621]The whole website and forum reeks of ultra libertarian pipe dreams of a new world of unheard cooperation; not to mention the vague techno-babble without any sort of actual descriptions of how this is supposed to work.[/QUOTE] Basically it seems to me like it's the show sharktank but without cameras and digital. But I agree, until they answer on "How to make sure people deliver promised product" then this isn't going to do a whole lot.
[QUOTE=Usernameztaken;50318637]Basically it seems to me like it's the show sharktank but without cameras and digital. But I agree, until they answer on "How to make sure people deliver promised product" then this isn't going to do a whole lot.[/QUOTE] It is right to question it--but you also have to look at the DarkNet market as well as online-freelancer websites where reputation of vendors/people is key. It's the same reason eBay and the like work. It's the same reason why Kickstarter 'sometimes' works. Obviously, money will be lost, people will be scammed--should the whole thing be given up on because this might happen occasionally? [editline]14th May 2016[/editline] Another good example is BTCJam ([url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BTCJam[/url]) [quote]BTCjam is a company based in San Francisco, California, that provides a peer-to-peer lending service where people from around the world connect to borrow and lend using bitcoin. It is allowed to users in countries that lack a local credit score system to receive loans, based on an in-house credit-scoring algorithm. Its mission is to make credit affordable and accessible everywhere.[/quote] [quote]It has facilitated bitcoin loans for more than US$14,000,000 in over 120 countries worldwide[/quote] 14 Million USD is a significant amount of money. [i]Having said that I'm still waiting for that little shit in India who I sent like 3 USD so he could expand his restaurant to pay my shit back.[/i]
[QUOTE=icarusfoundyou;50318653]It is right to question it--but you also have to look at the DarkNet market as well as online-freelancer websites where reputation of vendors/people is key. It's the same reason eBay and the like work. It's the same reason why Kickstarter 'sometimes' works. Obviously, money will be lost, people will be scammed--should the whole thing be given up on because this might happen occasionally?[/QUOTE] Okay, but I still don't get it. What the fuck is it, who determines who gets money and who doesn't, what the fuck is an etherium, why not just fund projects with real USD instead of stupid cryptocurrency that could implode and be come irrelevant
[QUOTE=Usernameztaken;50318661]Okay, but I still don't get it. What the fuck is it, who determines who gets money and who doesn't, what the fuck is an etherium, why not just fund projects with real USD instead of stupid cryptocurrency that could implode and be come irrelevant[/QUOTE] Because traditional currency is inflexible, uninclusive, insecure and dated. If I wanted to send you $0.01 I can't realistically do it. India has a minimum wage of $0.28/hour--for a country with a billion people. Even if you worked a full week in India at minimum wage it'd be unviable economically to send the money to anyone you want anywhere in the world. Also in a lot of countries, the populations are extremely underbanked--more people have access to mobile phones than they do to banking facilities.
[QUOTE=icarusfoundyou;50318670]Because traditional currency is inflexible, uninclusive, insecure and dated. If I wanted to send you $0.01 I can't realistically do it. India has a minimum wage of $0.28/hour--for a country with a billion people. Even if you worked a full week in India at minimum wage it'd be unviable economically to send the money to anyone you want anywhere in the world. Also in a lot of countries, the populations are extremely underbanked--more people have access to mobile phones than they do to banking facilities.[/QUOTE] But that doesn't really matter if the currency your system is based upon implodes and all value is lost. If you can create a stable cryptocoin that won't do that and has real value, then by all means, what i'm saying here doesn't matter. And you still didn't answer the other three questions.
[QUOTE=Usernameztaken;50318710]But that doesn't really matter if the currency your system is based upon implodes and all value is lost. And you still didn't answer the other three questions.[/QUOTE] who determines who gets money and who doesn't: smart contracts i.e. instead of the kickstarter model where anita sarkeesian gets 2 billion bucks straight up and doesn't deliver most of what she promised you have a contract that time points and goals for instance: Milestone 1: reached and cryptographically signed off by a majority of voters--money is delivered to developer Milestone 2: same thing Milestone 263.168: failure/delay/whatever--people don't sign off on it and money is returned to them Ethereum is a cryptocurrency that allows smart-contracts.
i couldnt read the lawyer talk webpage. it's written like its suppose to make people feel good because of big words, or something... it honestly feels like a silicon valley (the tv show) joke webpage.
Interesting concept... I'm curious how taxes would work into it all or how governments would get involved in the money-transfer side of things.
[QUOTE=icarusfoundyou;50318731]who determines who gets money and who doesn't: smart contracts i.e. instead of the kickstarter model where anita sarkeesian gets 2 billion bucks straight up and doesn't deliver most of what she promised you have a contract that time points and goals for instance: Milestone 1: reached and cryptographically signed off by a majority of voters--money is delivered to developer Milestone 2: same thing Milestone 263.168: failure/delay/whatever--people don't sign off on it and money is returned to them Ethereum is a cryptocurrency that allows smart-contracts.[/QUOTE] How would the money be returned if it is spent?
More important than anything on the website is the code itself: [url]https://github.com/slockit/DAO[/url] [editline]14th May 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=paul simon;50318755]How would the money be returned if it is spent?[/QUOTE] It goes into escrow. For instance when you use localbitcoins (matches you up with people in your area to buy/sell bitcoin for cash/bank transfers etc) 1. Hi person with a good reputation and lots of trade volume, I would like to sell 1 bitcoin, these are my banking details. 1 bitcoin is sent into escrow. 2. Person hopefully actually sends through money and marks it as sent. 3. I click a button on localbitcoins to release the escrow showing that I have no dispute from my side and then the money is sent to the person who bought my bitcoin. 4. Ratings are sent/received.
[QUOTE=nuttyboffin;50318747]Interesting concept... I'm curious how taxes would work into it all or how governments would get involved in the money-transfer side of things.[/QUOTE] it'll most likely be like bitcoin where most governments are hands off.
[QUOTE=icarusfoundyou;50318768]It goes into escrow. For instance when you use localbitcoins (matches you up with people in your area to buy/sell bitcoin for cash/bank transfers etc) 1. Hi person with a good reputation and lots of trade volume, I would like to sell 1 bitcoin, these are my banking details. 1 bitcoin is sent into escrow. 2. Person hopefully actually sends through money and marks it as sent. 3. I click a button on localbitcoins to release the escrow showing that I have no dispute from my side and then the money is sent to the person who bought my bitcoin. 4. Ratings are sent/received.[/QUOTE] So they don't actually get to use the money until the crowdfunding project is completed?
[QUOTE=paul simon;50318785]So they don't actually get to use the money until the crowdfunding project is completed?[/QUOTE] It depends. It could be a 50% down payment at the beginning, it could be 100% funding from the start, it could 0.00000036% payments every 342 minutes while the contract is running, it could be anything.
[QUOTE=icarusfoundyou;50318670]Because traditional currency is inflexible, uninclusive, insecure and dated. [/QUOTE] [I]b-b-b-b-buh bitcoin is the fuutur you dont understand:hiddendowns:[/I] We've heard this before. A currency needs to be stable and reliable before people will be willing to use it for legitimate purposes. It doesn't matter how efficient it is or how well it's designed. Bitcoin was a massive trainwreck since pretty much all of it's users were just looking to mine and trade bitcoin like stocks so that they could make a quick buck. You could argue that happens with currencies with the dollars as well but it's not the only thing that's keeping them afloat.
[QUOTE=Aphtonites;50318866][I]b-b-b-b-buh bitcoin is the fuutur you dont understand:hiddendowns:[/I] We've heard this before. A currency needs to be stable and reliable before people will be willing to use it for legitimate purposes. Bitcoin was a massive trainwreck since pretty much all of it's users were just looking to mine and trade bitcoin like stocks so that they could make a quick buck. You could argue that happens with currencies with the dollars as well but it's not the only thing that's keeping them afloat.[/QUOTE] Cool. You're absolutely entitled to have that opinion. For me $100 million investment in a single project is a legitimate purpose.
So is it a big pile of money that people and people can vote what projects their share of that money can go towards? I don't even know why I'm asking, I don't even understand bitcoins.
I'm not sure who would be launching crowdfunding campaigns for a system like this. Probably not someone who need a lot of money anyways, because the majority of the audience won't be using this system. I mean, it's even difficult to explain to people [I]what it is.[/I]
[QUOTE=paul simon;50318952]I'm not sure who would be launching crowdfunding campaigns for a system like this. Probably not someone who need a lot of money anyways, because the majority of the audience won't be using this system. I mean, it's even difficult to explain to people [I]what it is.[/I][/QUOTE] Here is a proposal being made: [url]https://mobotiq.com/[/url] Basically a way to have modular vehicle construction and P2P rental services and self-owned vehicles. This is something that is generating a lot of discussion at the moment because you can start to build cities that aren't centred around roads and parking facilities. If you read this: [url]https://github.com/slockit/DAO/wiki/How-to-create-a-proposal[/url] It gives an idea of how a proposal is made--a very interesting section is this: [quote]debatingPeriod: The amount of time (in seconds!) to debate and vote on the proposal. Unless this is a proposal for a new Curator, this has to be at least 2 weeks (= 604800 seconds). For a new Curator proposal the minimum is 1 week. It is suggested to have a longer debating and voting period for controversial proposals or when a high amount of ether is proposed to be transferred. The maximum debating period is 8 weeks.[/quote] [quote]Send ETHER: For a regular proposal there is a minimum Proposal Deposit required, which can be read from the contract using the proposalDeposit function and is input using the base units of the DAO token (1 = 10^-16 DAO tokens). The sender of the transaction can choose to pay a higher deposit. The GUI for the DAO (work in progress) will sort the Proposals, ordering them by the Proposal Deposit amount. Therefore increasing the deposit amount can be used to advertise or prioritize certain Proposals. The Proposal Deposit is paid back when the Proposal gets executed and the quorum is met. Depending on the proposed amount of ETH to be transferred, this is between 20% and 53.33% of all tokens (see Eq. (1) in the whitepaper).[/quote]
[QUOTE=icarusfoundyou;50318601]For any idea that isn't available just yet-- Some guy wants to do stem cell research? fund it. Some woman wants to research next-gen dragon dildo technology? maybe not fund it. Someone wants to start a project to create open source software for governments to use? fund it. This is basically leading us to the next gen of the next gen--we're talking Lyft, Uber, Dropbox, Mega, Gmail without the middle man. Want to pay for 312.23413 GB of storage for 6.84 hours? Pay exactly what it costs directly to who provides it--no one taking a 20% cut.[/QUOTE] i really, genuinely hope you dont actually expect this to work out.
[QUOTE=icarusfoundyou;50318963]Here is a proposal being made: [url]https://mobotiq.com/[/url] Basically a way to have modular vehicle construction and P2P rental services and self-owned vehicles. This is something that is generating a lot of discussion at the moment because you can start to build cities that aren't centred around roads and parking facilities. If you read this: [url]https://github.com/slockit/DAO/wiki/How-to-create-a-proposal[/url] It gives an idea of how a proposal is made--a very interesting section is this:[/QUOTE] This Mobotiq sounds like cool idea :).
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