[quote]Johann Breyer, 89, passed away in a Philadelphia hospital on Tuesday night, his attorney told US media.
His death followed an order by a US judge granting a request for Mr Breyer to be sent to Germany to stand trial.[/quote]
[quote]Mr Breyer emigrated to the US in 1952 and during the 1990s, the US attempted to strip him of his citizenship and deport him.
But that failed when a judge ruled he was a natural-born citizen through his mother and was coerced into joining the SS as a minor.[/quote]
[quote]German prosecutors were hoping to put him on trial on charges of aiding in the murder of more than 200,000 Jews at Auschwitz during World War Two.[/quote]
[url=http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28454566]**SOURCE**[/url]
What a complete fucking waste of time. Even if you convicted him you would of achieved nothing other than looking like a spineless asshole.
I could imagine if they actually put him on trial...
"Well Mr. Breyer, after revie-"
"WHAT? IM SORRY SONNY I CAN'T HEAR YOU"
"After reviewing the evidence-"
"RENEWING WHOSE ELEPHANTS?"
If they actually had managed to put him on trial and he was convicted would that make him the worlds more prolific serial killer, since he was charged with the murder of 200 thousand people?
More importantly, why the fuck would you bother. All of these people are in their 80s and 90s by now, and they didn't have much choice in being guards at a camp anyway. Also any of them whom actually were doing it out of want have effectively gotten away with their crimes by now, so charging them is really not for anything other than purely symbolic reasons of revenge.
Germany, a strange land where you can't forget the past, unless it's the Swastika or violence, then it can't be in media, and you can't deny the holocaust but you also can't talk about it at all. Oh, and revenge is justice, but only when carried out upon old people.
Although he participated in atrocious crimes you are going to achieve nothing sentencing this guy. Bit of an arsehole move on the U.S part there.
The vague of Justice idea sounds nice until you realize that the US government basically let Nazi/Japanese scientists who had participated in Human experiments free to recruit them.
[QUOTE=dwt110;45479682]I could imagine if they actually put him on trial...
"Well Mr. Breyer, after revie-"
"WHAT? IM SORRY SONNY I CAN'T HEAR YOU"
"After reviewing the evidence-"
"RENEWING WHOSE ELEPHANTS?"[/QUOTE]
they sent a guy from cleveland to germany a few years back, he died before the sentencing could even be handed down, at this point its just dumb because the people they're convicting would have been 13-14 at the time
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;45480150]The vague of Justice idea sounds nice until you realize that the US government basically let Nazi/Japanese scientists who had participated in Human experiments free to recruit them.[/QUOTE]
They did collect a substantial amount of information and knowledge from those experiments even if they were horrible. What's done is done, at least make best use of it.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;45480150]The vague of Justice idea sounds nice until you realize that the US government basically let Nazi/Japanese scientists who had participated in Human experiments free to recruit them.[/QUOTE]
Some germans scientists, like von Braun, only worked with the nazis because they were the only ones willing to give them R&D money.
On the other hands, you have guys like Mengele who were sick motherfuckers.
Why the hell are we still killing Nazis of the old order? They can't do shit to Jews anymore and most of them probably want to forget as much as the Jews do.
I think the gravity of the crimes former nazis are suspected to have committed at least mean they deserve to go to trial. I don't care too much for the sentencing but it is a useful reminder to people that crimes on such magnitude won't be washed away by time.
BJ is best at killing Nazi's anyways
I don't see why this man was going to be put on trial. Most of them were soldiers following orders.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;45480150]The vague of Justice idea sounds nice until you realize that the US government basically let Nazi/Japanese scientists who had participated in Human experiments free to recruit them.[/QUOTE]
considering experiments of this type most likely will never occur on this depth or scale again (nor should they) i'd prefer what research WAS done be put to use instead of just destroyed
even if its the most completely useless data ever, there's nothing to be gained in letting it be destroyed just to spite the nazis
[QUOTE=Falkok15;45481025]Why the hell are we still killing Nazis of the old order? They can't do shit to Jews anymore and most of them probably want to forget as much as the Jews do.[/QUOTE]
I suppose if I murder someone and get away for a few years, it'll be alright after a while. I mean, he's dead and I can't hurt him anymore. Right?
Incoming people who believe old, dying men are accountable for actions they weren't directly involved in.
[QUOTE=T553412;45480274]Some germans scientists, like von Braun, only worked with the nazis because they were the only ones willing to give them R&D money.
On the other hands, you have guys like Mengele who were sick motherfuckers.[/QUOTE]
"No, you see - I didn't make weapons for monsters because I [I]agreed[/I] with them - my reasons were purely percuniary!"
I don't think that comma is supposed to be there in the title. :v:
[QUOTE=T553412;45480274]Some germans scientists, like von Braun, only worked with the nazis because they were the only ones willing to give them R&D money.
On the other hands, you have guys like Mengele who were sick motherfuckers.[/QUOTE]
Eh he signed off on a lot of documents that would lead to the deaths of hundreds of jewish slaves which were under his command. Its what made the U.S so reluctant to use him just at the very start of the space race.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45481988]Isn't the idea of the justice system to "rehabilitate" people? In which case these guys are 90+ years old, and even if convicted aren't going to be "rehabilitated" because they're going to die in 10ish years.
At this point it's all about revenge and "LOOK GUYS, WE'RE SERIOUSLY NOT NAZI'S ANYMORE, WE PROMISE".[/QUOTE]
Nazis are the only thing I believe "turn the other cheek" should not apply to.
any nazi chose to be a nazi and enjoyed killing jews
they all deserve the gas chamber
[/s]
[QUOTE=Bazsil;45481709]considering experiments of this type most likely will never occur on this depth or scale again (nor should they) i'd prefer what research WAS done be put to use instead of just destroyed
even if its the most completely useless data ever, there's nothing to be gained in letting it be destroyed just to spite the nazis[/QUOTE]
The point of contention isn't the data or results/knowledge of the research, it's that the govt basically gave those people who orchestrated and performed those researches get-out-of-jail-free cards. Go ahead use the research, but they specifically abrogated justice for the people who performed them which isn't right.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45481988]Isn't the idea of the justice system to "rehabilitate" people? In which case these guys are 90+ years old, and even if convicted aren't going to be "rehabilitated" because they're going to die in 10ish years.
At this point it's all about revenge and "LOOK GUYS, WE'RE SERIOUSLY NOT NAZI'S ANYMORE, WE PROMISE".[/QUOTE]
It's also about finding closure and deterring others from doing the same. I know both of these are a bit difficult in the context of the holocaust, but Germans want to send a strong message that they can't forget nor forgive these atrocities, no matter how long ago they happened.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45481988]Isn't the idea of the justice system to "rehabilitate" people? In which case these guys are 90+ years old, and even if convicted aren't going to be "rehabilitated" because they're going to die in 10ish years.
At this point it's all about revenge and "LOOK GUYS, WE'RE SERIOUSLY NOT NAZI'S ANYMORE, WE PROMISE".[/QUOTE]
I'm curious as to when that perception of the justice system became popular.
Can't have been the case in the 40s or 50s. It was all about revenge then, and it's still about revenge now.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;45480201]They did collect a substantial amount of information and knowledge from those experiments even if they were horrible. What's done is done, at least make best use of it.[/QUOTE]
which is nice, yes, but a lot of horrible chemical weapons research came out of that stuff too
and yes they used the research, of course they did - anyone would - but they didn't need to say "hey we'll let you all go free and cover up these atrocities as long as you give us the research". that was terrible
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45482159]Because all Nazis were TOTALLY voluntary, and no-one was pressured into joining their regime.. oh wait.[/QUOTE]
that's what this trial was going to determine, they got new evidence that they felt proved he was more than just a unwilling guard
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45482159]Because all Nazis were TOTALLY voluntary, and no-one was pressured into joining their regime.. oh wait.[/QUOTE]
The SS were totally voluntary and you will notice that any requests from SS men to be transferred away from the concentration camps were few and far between and often denied.
[QUOTE=WeekendWarrior;45484262]The SS were totally voluntary and you will notice that any requests from SS men to be transferred away from the concentration camps were few and far between and often denied.[/QUOTE]
Errr... Not actually. There were a number of conscript divisions formed from people from places such as Estonia or Latvia. Later in the war, due to the lack of aircraft and marine units in the SS, personal were drafted from the Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffee. In additional, as the war continued on, many personal were drafted from different volksdeutsche units (such as the 7th SS Volunteer Mountain Division Prinz Eugen having volksdeutsche from Banat in it). For the purposes of logistics, these kriegsmarine, luftwaffee or volksdeutsche were considered as having volunteered.
[QUOTE=Wingz;45482088]any nazi chose to be a nazi and enjoyed killing jews
they all deserve the gas chamber
[/s][/QUOTE]
Like my grand-granddad who was forced to join the SS when he was old enough, even tough he lived for years with his parents and siblings in Romania...
he had to join the german army, because he was born in Germany.
His brother on the other hand who was still in Romania got his call to arms some years later by Romania and the Allied Forces...
because Romania had switched sides, they were now enemies.
Near the end of WW2, they where both standing on the Czechoslovakian front.
One brother on the side of the axis forces against another brother and the concentrated power of the Russians, the Romanians and the US Air force.
Luckily they both survived the encounter and never really faced each other.
Clearly my grand-granddad sucked at making a decision siding with the germans. Because he had a choice, right? :v:
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;45484832]Errr... Not actually. There were a number of conscript divisions formed from people from places such as Estonia or Latvia. Later in the war, due to the lack of aircraft and marine units in the SS, personal were drafted from the Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffee. In additional, as the war continued on, many personal were drafted from different volksdeutsche units (such as the 7th SS Volunteer Mountain Division Prinz Eugen having volksdeutsche from Banat in it). For the purposes of logistics, these kriegsmarine, luftwaffee or volksdeutsche were considered as having volunteered.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the SS combat units conscripted. The concentration camps didn't draw manpower from any foreign conscripts or combat units.
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