• Memristors - The Future of Computers
    37 replies, posted
Memristors are an alternative to transistors that act simultaneously as processors and data storage. They're smaller, more energy efficient, and more powerful. In 2008, HP created the first memristors, but only now in 2010 have they succesffully built devices that use memristors instead of traditional transistors. They expect products using memristors to be commercially available by 2013. [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9f/Memristor.jpg[/IMG] Copypasta: [QUOTE]Memristors improve on transistors in three key ways. First off, they allow the same device to serve as the processor and the memory. Right now, computers need separate devices for memory (such as solid state flash memory or regular magnetic hard drives) and processing (the computer chip itself). By eliminating the communication time and energy between those different parts of hardware, a memristor system would work far faster, and with far less energy, than a traditional computer. Second, memristors can be much smaller than transistors. Quantum mechanics limits how tiny transistors can be, a limit that current technology is rapidly approaching. Memristors would allow computer chips to continue getting smaller past that point, all without resorting to exotic tricks like graphene chips or quantum computing. Lastly, unlike transistors, which only work linearly, memristors can form three-dimensional networks. This added dimension exponentially expands the number of connections, and thus the power, of a memristor computer. In fact, the 3-D network capability of memristors is so profound that Leon Chua, the man who first theorized the existence of memristors in the 1971, believes that this technology could enable the creation of electronic brains. "We have the right stuff now to build real brains," he told the Times.[/QUOTE][URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/science/08chips.html"]New York Times[/URL] [URL="http://www.popsci.com/node/44900/?cmpid=enews041510"]Popular Science [/URL]
[quote]First off, they allow the same device to serve as the processor and the memory. Right now, computers need separate devices for memory (such as solid state flash memory or regular magnetic hard drives) and processing (the computer chip itself). By eliminating the communication time and energy between those different parts of hardware, a memristor system would work far faster, and with far less energy, than a traditional computer.[/quote] Combining two commonly upgraded components in a computer is never a good idea. The amount you save being energy efficient isn't going to make up for the amount you'll spend in the long run if you want to upgrade a single component.
[QUOTE=M2k3;21369361]Combining two commonly upgraded components in a computer is never a good idea. The amount you save being energy efficient isn't going to make up for the amount you'll spend in the long run if you want to upgrade a single component.[/QUOTE] Let's just wait and see how this goes before we complain.
[QUOTE=M2k3;21369361]Combining two commonly upgraded components in a computer is never a good idea. The amount you save being energy efficient isn't going to make up for the amount you'll spend in the long run if you want to upgrade a single component.[/QUOTE] True, but it wouldn't necessarily limit upgrading. For example they might make CPUs with a certain amount of local storage, with extra storage supplied by add-on cards.
Aren't memristers also able to be in a sort of shade of grey, like, it's not just On with data, or Off with both, it can store data and not have power going to it at the same time, so you could start up your PC in under a second theoretically.
[QUOTE=Roast Beast;21369570]True, but it wouldn't necessarily limit upgrading. For example they might make CPUs with a certain amount of local storage, with extra storage supplied by add-on cards.[/QUOTE] So what if you want to keep the crap on the CPU's "local storage" and wanted to upgrade?
[QUOTE=Panda X;21369626]So what if you want to keep the crap on the CPU's "local storage" and wanted to upgrade?[/QUOTE] Temporarily copy it to a HDD? or just make the space on the CPU RAM memory.
[QUOTE=Panda X;21369626]So what if you want to keep the crap on the CPU's "local storage" and wanted to upgrade?[/QUOTE] Good point, I suppose any storage on the CPU would have to be limited to things like cache or RAM. Edit: or maybe an embedded/preinstalled OS?
[QUOTE=Panda X;21369626]So what if you want to keep the crap on the CPU's "local storage" and wanted to upgrade?[/QUOTE] I'm sure there would be some kind of device to backup the data to and then place it one the replacement component.
If files were stored on the cpu would that eliminate the need for ram or no?
I'm sure cost wouldn't matter as much considering you'd be paying for less components in total and manufacturers wouldn't have to bother making them anymore.
[QUOTE=Panda X;21369626]So what if you want to keep the crap on the CPU's "local storage" and wanted to upgrade?[/QUOTE] The same thing you do when you want to replace a crappy hard drive with a new one. By the new one, copy it over, and get rid of the old one.d I don't think anyone is sure how computer architecture will work with these new memristors, but (like someone said) they could simply combine your CPU and RAM into one, so backing up wouldn't be an issue. [editline]04:43PM[/editline] [QUOTE=pl0xinat0r;21369597]Aren't memristers also able to be in a sort of shade of grey, like, it's not just On with data, or Off with both, it can store data and not have power going to it at the same time, so you could start up your PC in under a second theoretically.[/QUOTE] You're thinking about quantum computing, which allows more states than 0 or 1. Quantum computers are also being developed but I don't think they're as close to working prototypes as memristors are.
It wouldn't store data on the CPU like a Hard Disk, that'd be a silly idea. It means faster access to the CPU's memory cache. Or something like that.
That memristor pic looks edible. I wonder how expensive they would be.
Does this mean I'll actually have to start not laughing at the people who ask me to reformat their CPU?
That picture looks like some sort of a medical diagram.
[QUOTE=ButtsexV2;21373147]Does this mean I'll actually have to start not laughing at the people who ask me to reformat their CPU?[/QUOTE] And people who say they have 500GB of RAM.
[QUOTE=M2k3;21369361]Combining two commonly upgraded components in a computer is never a good idea. The amount you save being energy efficient isn't going to make up for the amount you'll spend in the long run if you want to upgrade a single component.[/QUOTE] I was hoping that they'd be used as huge caches.
Aww.. I wanted to resort to quantum computing :frown:
Think about it this way... If we only need to make memristors for both purposes, more R+D can be spent on one component. If we can make integrated RAM and CPUs, then we can probably slot multiple in like our current RAM cards, and if we get RAM, CPU and GPU all on once chip... consider just clipping in an "Omni-chip" whenever you need more power :3. Then again... Been watching too much Sci-Fi...
[QUOTE=Roast Beast;21373568]And people who say they have 500GB of RAM.[/QUOTE] But thats what it says on my computer box! :downs:
[QUOTE=Larikang;21371754]You're thinking about quantum computing, which allows more states than 0 or 1. Quantum computers are also being developed but I don't think they're as close to working prototypes as memristors are.[/QUOTE] No, he was right. [quote]The device, a nanoscale component called a "memristor," requires no power to retain data, which it can store more densely than a hard drive and access about as fast as a computer’s RAM memory—potentially allowing it to replace both components in the future. Memristors can function in either a digital mode, in which a memory cell is “on” or “off,” or in analog mode, in which each cell holds some value in between. These values grow every time the cell receives an electrical signal, mimicking the way neurons in the brain build stronger memories the more they are stimulated. [/quote] [url]http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2008-04/hp-discovers-potential-god-particle-electronics[/url] Also, I love technology.
[QUOTE=Roast Beast;21369570]True, but it wouldn't necessarily limit upgrading. For example they might make CPUs with a certain amount of local storage, with extra storage supplied by add-on cards.[/QUOTE] That would defeat the whole purpose of the technology with "closer stuff = better performance". You'd still have to go out on the bus and grab data from remote memory which takes time, and is no different form what we currently do with CPU cache and main memory.
[QUOTE=bohb;21379850]That would defeat the whole purpose of the technology with "closer stuff = better performance". You'd still have to go out on the bus and grab data from remote memory which takes time, and is no different form what we currently do with CPU cache and main memory.[/QUOTE] It is different from what we currently do in that the equivalent of RAM ("local storage") would be integrated in the CPU, while the equivalent of hard disk space ("extra storage") would be separated but still far faster than current drives. Incidentally, the logical direction of this technology is toward completely solid state, fully integrated computers - essentially the CPU, RAM, GPU, and HDD all combined in a single unit. Edit: by the time this technology is viable, optical storage will probably become obsolete... and if its heat output is low enough to not require active cooling, it could lead to computers with absolutely no moving parts.
Are they also made from carbon nanotubes and run at 100GHZ like the IBM carbon nanotube transistors? Because 100ghz carbon nanotube memristors would be fucking epic.
[QUOTE=Roast Beast;21380541]Incidentally, the logical direction of this technology is toward completely solid state, fully integrated computers - essentially the CPU, RAM, GPU, and HDD all combined in a single unit. Edit: by the time this technology is viable, optical storage will probably become obsolete... and if its heat output is low enough to not require active cooling, it could lead to computers with absolutely no moving parts.[/QUOTE] I like how everyone keeps saying "Optical media is obsolete and going the way of the dinosaurs" yet the largest distribution media type is still optical media. People forget that memory is expensive and memory is also a commodity and not linked to the cost of production. Being a commodity like memory is means that memory manufacturers can charge whatever they want for whatever reason they want. Memory is already two to three times more expensive than it was a year ago, meaning that less people are going to opt for buying memory related devices like SSDs and large amounts of RAM, and instead get cheaper storage mediums like HDDs and Optical media.
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;21381491]I like how everyone keeps saying "Optical media is obsolete and going the way of the dinosaurs" yet the largest distribution media type is still optical media. People forget that memory is expensive and memory is also a commodity and not linked to the cost of production. Being a commodity like memory is means that memory manufacturers can charge whatever they want for whatever reason they want. Memory is already two to three times more expensive than it was a year ago, meaning that less people are going to opt for buying memory related devices like SSDs and large amounts of RAM, and instead get cheaper storage mediums like HDDs and Optical media.[/QUOTE] I'm certainly not saying that optical media is obsolete now or is going to die off any time soon, but I'm guessing that by the time memristors are used commercially in computers it will be superseded by something better.
I think this technology would be fantastic for installing an operating system on.
I'm very interested to see if this pans out into the mainstream.
[IMG]http://www.gadgetreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/20060623_pusa_2.jpg[/IMG] Im dissapointed to not see these in this thread.
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