Finnish government opts to keep law that requires trans people to be sterilised - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Pinknews.co.uk]In a disappointing blow to trans activists, the Finnish government decided on August 25th to not implement the recommendations of the United Nations Human Rights Council. The Human Rights Council had previously recommended amending the “Trans Act” which requires sterilisation prior to changing a legal gender.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Pinknews.co.uk]In May, the Human Rights Council gave the Finnish government 153 recommendations, including the amendments to the “Trans Act.” The Finnish government has rejected 37 of these so far. In the last four years, Finland has only had 78 recommendations, out of which five were rejected.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/08/25/finnish-government-opts-to-keep-law-that-requires-trans-people-to-be-sterilised/[/url] It's 2 months old but stuff ain't changing anytime soon so it's still relevant. [editline]27th October 2017[/editline] Oh, they also allegedly have a revised version of this "trans act" ready to be taken forward but the government is doing literally nothing about it.

To foreigners, Finland may have the appearance of a forward-thinking technological socialist wonderland but the governments here are almost always conservative as fuck and corrupt. It doesn't really affect the average citizen, but god forbid you're outside the average, the conservatism will slap you in the face hard. Whether it's LGBT stuff, customs officials ignoring EU laws, alcohol monopoly, or weed legalization as examples, you're out of luck.

[QUOTE=Orkel;52824889]To foreigners, Finland may have the appearance of a forward-thinking technological socialist wonderland but the governments here are almost always conservative as fuck and corrupt. It doesn't really affect the average citizen, but god forbid you're outside the average, the conservatism will slap you in the face hard. Whether it's LGBT stuff, customs officials ignoring EU laws, alcohol monopoly, or weed legalization as examples, you're out of luck.[/QUOTE] Agreed. Luckily my boyfriend lives in England (i know nowhere is perfect and trans stuff has its problems there too but its WAY, WAY more ahead human rights wise) so I'll be going there soon [editline]27th October 2017[/editline] though hey at least i get to have internet as a human right but not the right to be a parent or whatever lol [editline]27th October 2017[/editline] funny if i were cis, sterilizing myself would be illegal and actually punishable by prison (because the law requires you to have a certain number of children (3 i think) or be a certain age, not 100% sure but its something like that), but since im trans the state has to sterilize me lol you know, technically im actually committing a crime in finland because i still have male id and name and everything (because theres a name law that makes it forbidden, impossible for a man to have the name "anna" for example and vice versa) and ive already sterilized myself by taking hrt lol

[QUOTE=Saturn V;52824892] funny if i were cis, sterilizing myself would be illegal and actually punishable by prison (because the law requires you to have a certain number of children (3 i think) or be a certain age, not 100% sure but its something like that), but since im trans the state has to sterilize me lol[/QUOTE] What the hell is this shit. What happens if you just don't want kids?

[QUOTE=Mr Kotov;52825001]What the hell is this shit. What happens if you just don't want kids?[/QUOTE] you'll simply have to wait till a certain age before you can be sterilized surgically (especially bad if youre female and have polycystic ovary disease) also, vasectomy counts as sterilization so a man in his 20's cant get one if he doesnt want kids because hes supposedly too young for that decision according to the government

What sort of country forces you to have children? I expect that from some sort of dictatorship, not a modern democracy

[QUOTE=Mr Kotov;52825021]What sort of country forces you to have children? I expect that from some sort of dictatorship, not a modern democracy[/QUOTE] well it's not like it forces you to have kids it just basically forces you to have kids if you want to be sterilized immediately (which seems counterproductive) or to wait till a certain age. like this is especially bad for women with PCOD because that can be a very, very shitty thing and surgical removal of the ovaries can be used to treat severe cases but finnish legislation is... shit

[QUOTE=Saturn V;52825029]well it's not like it forces you to have kids [B]it just basically forces you to have kids if you want to be sterilized immediately[/b] (which seems counterproductive) or to wait till a certain age. like this is especially bad for women with PCOD because that can be a very, very shitty thing and surgical removal of the ovaries can be used to treat severe cases but finnish legislation is... shit[/QUOTE] This is still awful. I don't understand why this is law? Does Finland have some awful shrinking population or something because even if you guys did government dictating what you do with your body and forcing children upon you if you want to be sterilise is still fucked.

[QUOTE=Mr Kotov;52825038]This is still awful. I don't understand why this is law? Does Finland have some awful shrinking population or something because even if you guys did government dictating what you do with your body and forcing children upon you if you want to be sterilise is still fucked.[/QUOTE] i never said it wasnt awful, its just... how things are like thats how i'd sum up finland things are just how they are and its a fucked up thing to live with

He is saying they will only sterilize a man over a specific age, unless he has children already. Not that every man in finland is required is required to have children. Unless you are alarmed at the age requirement? Because it's the same here in the US, at least here in California. I had to wait until I was 25 before I could get a vasectomy.

[QUOTE=SomeENG;52825258] Unless you are alarmed at the age requirement? Because it's the same here in the US, at least here in California. I had to wait until I was 25 before I could get a vasectomy.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure most states let you get a vasectomy right out of the high school, if you wanted.

man this is fucked and saturn you are one brave ass mofo, I hope the UK works out for you and your guy

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;52826483]man this is fucked and saturn you are one brave ass mofo, I hope the UK works out for you and your guy[/QUOTE] The UK is pretty progressive with trans-stuff but it still has a long way to go, we face quite a few swings and roundabouts in a system and is very stubborn and often doesn't like to account for the individual's choices.

[QUOTE=gufu;52826078]Pretty sure most states let you get a vasectomy right out of the high school, if you wanted.[/QUOTE] I'm not aware of any legislation preventing it in the US, but you still need to find a doctor willing to do it. A lot of doctors won't for various reasons. Besides the 'morality' stuff, a lot of them won't do it because it would increase the cost of their malpractice insurance. Some people get permanently sterilized, only to want it undone later on. Enough of them sue over it that malpractice insurance will increase the premiums of anyone performing the procedure on young people without kids. It's not that they win the malpractice suits. It's that even when you successfully defend or settle a suit it still costs money.

[QUOTE=Orkel;52824889]To foreigners, Finland may have the appearance of a forward-thinking technological socialist wonderland but the governments here are almost always conservative as fuck and corrupt. It doesn't really affect the average citizen, but god forbid you're outside the average, the conservatism will slap you in the face hard. Whether it's LGBT stuff, customs officials ignoring EU laws, alcohol monopoly, or weed legalization as examples, you're out of luck.[/QUOTE] I think maybe it's a Scandinavian thing. We also had compulsory sterilization for transgendered people up until 2013. The same sterilization program was used for eugenic purposes during the 20th century.

[QUOTE=Zephyrs;52827279]I'm not aware of any legislation preventing it in the US, but you still need to find a doctor willing to do it. A lot of doctors won't for various reasons. Besides the 'morality' stuff, a lot of them won't do it because it would increase the cost of their malpractice insurance. Some people get permanently sterilized, only to want it undone later on. Enough of them sue over it that malpractice insurance will increase the premiums of anyone performing the procedure on young people without kids. It's not that they win the malpractice suits. It's that even when you successfully defend or settle a suit it still costs money.[/QUOTE] US law seems really retarded and its citizens very trigger happy when it comes to suits. Essentially there are things that aren't illegal but that you shouldn't do for fear of having to pour money into frivolous lawsuits defense?

[QUOTE=_Axel;52827593]US law seems really retarded and its citizens very trigger happy when it comes to suits. Essentially there are things that aren't illegal but that you shouldn't do for fear of having to pour money into frivolous lawsuits defense?[/QUOTE] This isn't exclusive to the US. Either you have a system where everyone pays their own legal costs with a few notable exceptions where the losers did something particularly meritless, or you have a system where the loser is responsible for all legal costs except in a few cases where the loser can show that their position was reasonable enough to require testing in court. The former gives a sizeable leg up to small parties because they can cheaply start a suite, and they can simply walk away when their case gets too expensive to maintain. That and a completely broke schmuck can choose to simply ignore a major lawsuit then file bankruptcy. Allowing David to tackle Goliath has it's benefits, but the drawback is that it encourages frivolous suites. The latter discourages frivolous suites, but it also discourages suits that aren't a surefire bet. It also allows a large company to simply crush a smaller one in paperwork. Both systems have drawbacks. Pick your poison.

How does the US system favor David against Goliath? Seems like it simply favors the attack to me, in particular big fish who force smaller parties into settling by adopting a strategy of attrition until the defendant has no money left to pay their lawyers.