Afghan leak: Wikileaks' Assange denies 'blood on hands' - Polidicks

[URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10825183"]Source[/URL] [IMG]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/48556000/jpg/_48556549_009868390-1.jpg[/IMG] Julian Assange says there is no evidence US informants have been harmed [quote=BBC]The founder of the website Wikileaks has rejected US claims he has blood on his hands after releasing 90,000 leaked classified documents on the Afghan war. Julian Assange told the BBC there was no evidence that any informants had died as a result of the leaks. [highlight] He accused the Pentagon of trying to distract attention from the thousands of lives being lost in the war.[/highlight] The White House has appealed to Wikileaks not to publish another 15,000 documents it is thought to hold. The US denied Mr Assange's assertion that he had asked the US government to help vet the documents to protect lives. [B]Mr Assange told the BBC's Newshour programme that the US government had presented no evidence that innocent people or informants had been harmed by the leaks.[/B] And he directly addressed comments made by Adm Mike Mullen, chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, who sharply criticised Wikileaks.[B] "One must consider why the Pentagon is focusing on the hypothetical blood that it says might be on our hands - although there is no evidence of that - compared to the 20,000 lives that have been lost in Afghanistan that are documented and exposed by our material," Mr [/B] Assange told the BBC. 'Abuses exposed' Mr Assange said Wikileaks had sought to engage the White House in its efforts to vet the material before it was released. [B]He has pledged to continue the release of documents.[/B] [B]"We will not be suppressed,"[/B] he said. "We will continue to expose abuses by this administration and others." The documents, which Wikileaks has dubbed the Afghan War Diary, were first described in news reports late on Sunday. Among other revelations, they describe previously unreported civilian deaths, they claim members of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency have backed the Taliban in Afghanistan, and state that the Taliban has used surface-to-air missiles to down coalition aircraft. On Thursday, Adm Mike Mullen expressed his outrage over the leaks at a press conference. "Mr Assange can say whatever he likes about the greater good he thinks he and his source are doing, but the truth is they might already have on their hands the blood of some young soldier or that of an Afghan family," he said. That was followed on Friday by a plea from White House aide Robert Gibbs for whoever possessed the Afghan files not to release any more. "It is important that no more damage be done to our national security," he said on NBC's Today show. Meanwhile, a soldier accused of leaking video of a deadly helicopter attack in Iraq has been transferred to a base in the US. US Army Pfc Bradley Manning is to stand trial on charges he gave video of the attack - in which a Reuters photographer was killed - to Wikileaks. The Pentagon is also investigating whether he handed over the 90,000 classified documents. The army said on Friday that Pfc Manning, 22, had been moved from Kuwait to Quantico Marine Base in Virginia where he will be held pending trial. The Pentagon has said investigators were extending the helicopter attack video investigation to find out whether Pfc Manning was involved in the leak of the Afghanistan documents. A spokesman described him as a "person of interest".[/quote] It's true; pretty much there has been a media campaign to discredit Wikileaks and distract all the attention to leaks which involve the informants rather the main goal/purpose.

good on him. this war is a failure and i think it's finally coming back to bite the government in the ass.

It's disgusting how the mainstream media is ignoring the content of these documents and instead launching a smear campaign against Assange.

"it's finally coming back to bite the government in the ass." Exactly that.

[quote] Mr Assange told the BBC's Newshour programme that the US government had presented no evidence that innocent people or informants had been harmed by the leaks.[/quote] Didn't he leak the names of Afghan spies and informers?

[QUOTE=ohadje;23737155]Didn't he leak the names of Afghan spies and informers?[/QUOTE] :downs: Read again.

[QUOTE=starpluck;23737211]:downs: Read again.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure that the Taliban will make a pretty good use of a list that contains the names of Afghan informers.

[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;23736966]It's disgusting how the mainstream media is ignoring the content of these documents and instead launching a smear campaign against Assange.[/QUOTE] The Guardian, New York Times and Die Welt all published large amounts of the information in their papers and online sites last week, so no not all of the mainstream media is.

[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;23736966]It's disgusting how the mainstream media is ignoring the content of these documents and instead launching a smear campaign against Assange.[/QUOTE] Pretty much this, the only people who are actually bothering to look at the content of the leaks seem to be the NYT. Even without this incident, I have almost no respect left for the career of journalism. Assange is doing us all a favor by leaking these documents, both in keeping the government honest, and in urging the journalists to get off their fucking asses.

[QUOTE=ohadje;23737295]I'm pretty sure that the Taliban will make a pretty good use of a list that contains the names of Afghan informers.[/QUOTE] He said there's no proof they are harmed, like as of now.

[QUOTE=Kagrenak;23737311]Pretty much this, the only people who are actually bothering to look at the content of the leaks seem to be the NYT. Even without this incident, I have almost no respect left for the career of journalism. Assange is doing us all a favor by leaking these documents, both in keeping the government honest, and in urging the journalists to get off their fucking asses.[/QUOTE] not just the NYT

[QUOTE=starpluck;23737334]He said there's no proof they are harmed, like as of now.[/QUOTE] Obviously people will be harmed in the future because of this, it's common sense.

[QUOTE=toxicpiano;23737341]not just the NYT[/QUOTE] Oh right, the Guardian and Der Spiegel, too. You know what they have in common? They're the ones Assange gave the leaks to first, if they hadn't gotten exclusivity, all the media outlets would have ignored it equally. [editline]10:49AM[/editline] [QUOTE=ohadje;23737362]Obviously people will be harmed in the future because of this, it's common sense.[/QUOTE] I hate when people have this attitude that "common sense" seems to override actual facts or evidence. It's like saying that vaccines can't work, because it's "common sense" that giving someone an attenuated version of a virus or bacteria won't do anything. It just makes you sound stupid.

[QUOTE=Kagrenak;23737409]Oh right, the Guardian and Der Spiegel, too. You know what they have in common? They're the ones Assange gave the leaks to first, if they hadn't gotten exclusivity, all the media outlets would have ignored it equally. [editline]10:49AM[/editline] I hate when people have this attitude that "common sense" seems to override actual facts or evidence. It's like saying that vaccines can't work, because it's "common sense" that giving someone an attenuated version of a virus or bacteria won't do anything. It just makes you sound stupid.[/QUOTE] So you actually think that the Taliban won't do anything with the list of Afghan informers and spies? Now that makes you sound stupid.

If the leaked documents were of a secret nature, they would have been dangerous. But however, these document were of a nature that is available to the general populace, albeit with some red tape. That being said, given the possibility of lives being lost due to a real top secret document leak, it would make Assange just as bad as the fools in the pentagon.

[QUOTE=ohadje;23737362]Obviously people will be harmed in the future because of this, it's common sense.[/QUOTE] It's not his fault. The media/The Pentagon were literally informing the world "INFORMANTS IN THIS LEAK, YEAH RIGHT [URL="http://www.facepunch.com/LOL"]HERE[/URL]." thus informing everyone that the names of informants are there.

[QUOTE=ohadje;23737513]So you actually think that the Taliban won't do anything with the list of Afghan informers and spies? Now that makes you sound stupid.[/QUOTE] It's hardly a list, there are a few here and there. But fine, even if they do kill every single person on it(unlikely), the document leak is worth it. Why? Because it without a doubt is bringing the truth of how much we're losing this war to light, and that will get us out quicker and save many more lives than it could ever cost. Like everyone loves to say, "War is hell, sometimes civilians die, and that's a fact." or something like that. It's about the number of lives lost in an action verses the number of lives potentially saved, and just like anything else, a leak is a war tactic.

[QUOTE=ohadje;23737513]So you actually think that the Taliban won't do anything with the list of Afghan informers and spies? Now that makes you sound stupid.[/QUOTE] Good, less spies, less intel, more casualties and a bigger support for the end of the war.

People seem to forget wikileaks went through 'harm minimising' where they removed the names of informers etc so people wouldn't get killed over this.

[QUOTE=toxicpiano;23737304]The Guardian, New York Times and Die Welt all published large amounts of the information in their papers and online sites last week, so no not all of the mainstream media is.[/QUOTE] When I said mainstream I meant the mainstream television media. My mistake, I was vague.

[QUOTE=starpluck;23737648]It's not his fault. The media/The Pentagon were literally informing the world "INFORMANTS IN THIS LEAK, YEAH RIGHT [URL="http://www.facepunch.com/LOL"]HERE[/URL]." thus informing everyone that the names of informants are there.[/QUOTE] As if the Taliban would've thought "Oh well, we aren't going to read this intel about our enemies, seems rather boring" unless the Pentagon pointed out the fact there is sensitive info in there. [quote]It's hardly a list, there are a few here and there. But fine, even if they do kill every single person on it(unlikely), the document leak is worth it. Why? Because it without a doubt is bringing the truth of how much we're losing this war to light, and that will get us out quicker and save many more lives than it could ever cost.[/quote] It isn't like he didn't have control of that list. Why release the names of informers? Does it do any good to anyone?

Soldiers defending their country finding out about spies in their mist and executing them. Smells like war to me.

[QUOTE=IStanI;23737905]Soldiers defending their country finding out about spies in their mist and executing them. Smells like war to me.[/QUOTE] The Taliban isn't defending Afghanistan, what are you talking about? The Taliban regime was probably one of the worst regimes ever existed in modern times.

[QUOTE=ohadje;23737937]The Taliban isn't defending Afghanistan, what are you talking about? The Taliban regime was probably one of the worst regimes ever existed in modern times.[/QUOTE] How was it the worst? When you invade a country and meet resistance- that's called people defending from a foreign enemy.

[QUOTE=IStanI;23737991]How was it the worst? When you invade a country and meet resistance- that's called people defending from a foreign enemy.[/QUOTE] I didn't say it was the worst, I said it was one of the worst. Their brutal oppression of the common people is a pretty good hint why they are one of the worst... And they aren't defending Afghanistan. Afghanistan is going to be free and independent soon enough. It isn't as if they are fighting off an enemy which doesn't plan on letting it independence.

I like how everyone thinks that these leaks are going to make any sort of difference in the future of the war in Afghanistan.

From WikiLeaks chat. [IMG]http://i30.tinypic.com/mcpwde.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=ohadje;23738085]I didn't say it was the worst, I said it was one of the worst. Their brutal oppression of the common people is a pretty good hint why they are one of the worst... And they aren't defending Afghanistan. Afghanistan is going to be free and independent soon enough. It isn't as if they are fighting off an enemy which doesn't plan on letting it independence.[/QUOTE] Oppression is shared because of the religion, much like most religions. Installing a foreign approved government to exploit the economy much like the US has done in the past is actually pretty harmful to afghanistan.

Ok - that's better. Too bad they haven't censored the names before releasing the documents. [quote]Oppression is shared because of the religion, much like most religions. Installing a foreign approved government to exploit the economy much like the US has done in the past is actually pretty harmful to afghanistan.[/quote] How, exactly, is the US planning on exploiting the resources of Afghanistan using the current Afghani government?

[QUOTE=ohadje;23738199]Ok - that's better. Too bad they haven't censored the names before releasing the documents. How, exactly, is the US planning on exploiting the resources of Afghanistan using the current Afghani government?[/QUOTE] Westernization.