• UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears
    11 replies, posted
[quote]Britain’s vote to leave the EU has unleashed a wave of discrimination against UK researchers, with elite universities in the country coming under pressure to abandon collaborations with European partners. In a confidential survey of the UK’s Russell Group universities, the Guardian found cases of British academics being asked to leave EU-funded projects or to step down from leadership roles because they are considered a financial liability. .... The backlash against UK researchers began immediately after the June referendum when the failure to plan for a post-Brexit Britain cast serious doubts over the chances of British organisations winning future EU funding. British researchers receive about £1bn a year from EU finding programmes such as Horizon 2020, but access to the money must be completely renegotiated under Brexit.[/quote] [url]https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/jul/12/uk-scientists-dropped-from-eu-projects-because-of-post-brexit-funding-fears[/url]
Some background to this. EU put lots of money into PHD students and research for UK universities. The british government, austerity fetishists that they are, are unlikely to provide this funding; so collaboration with UK based students/researchers opens up the project to a pile of risk. Researchers might have funding withdrawn which could mean failure for the project. This is for certain people on here who might jump to conclusions.
Britain doesn't pay for its research is what I've read elsewhere. Something like 17% of the published papers from the EU are British while only like 4% of the funding is British which means that post exit they will have a markable diminished role in academics which is exactly what experts said
This is a bit premature isn't it? We're still part of the EU for the next 2 years and we'll likely negotiate to continue this cooperation. Why would both the EU and the UK refuse to continue this research? I understand the 'Conservatives like cuts' argument but I don't think it will play out. If the EU funds a project, that project is funded surely? If a British researcher is the best researcher then you hire them? Or is this just EU jobs for EU citizens? [editline]12th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Sableye;50696774]Britain doesn't pay for its research is what I've read elsewhere. Something like 17% of the published papers from the EU are British while only like 4% of the funding is British which means that post exit they will have a markable diminished role in academics which is exactly what experts said[/QUOTE] Define 'British papers' - is it papers published using Oxford or Cambridge Press? I don't understand what makes a paper 'British'.
These kind of ripple effects caused by Brexit uncertainty will continue happening until this matter's resolved one way or another. [editline]12th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Mythman;50696781]If the EU funds a project, that project is funded surely? If a British researcher is the best researcher then you hire them? Or is this just EU jobs for EU citizens?[/QUOTE] I'm sure the Leave side can sympathize with people wanting tax money to stay within the boundaries that collect that tax, rather than sending that money outside their borders.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50696727]Some background to this. EU put lots of money into PHD students and research for UK universities. The british government, austerity fetishists that they are, are unlikely to provide this funding; so collaboration with UK based students/researchers opens up the project to a pile of risk. Researchers might have funding withdrawn which could mean failure for the project. This is for certain people on here who might jump to conclusions.[/QUOTE] Some background to this... The European scientific foundation or the ERA is not the same thing as the European Union, and thus scientific funding except for the studies explicitly funded by EU money are not even in the slightest at risk. This is purely political pressure applied to make the UK look bad, Guy Verhofstadt even admitted to this in an interview. Even the EU funded studies hosted in the UK or having UK member universities are not 'really' at risk, since there are plenty of non-member states that participate in these organisations. Perspective. [editline]12th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Sableye;50696774]Britain doesn't pay for its research is what I've read elsewhere. Something like 17% of the published papers from the EU are British while only like 4% of the funding is British which means that post exit they will have a markable diminished role in academics which is exactly what experts said[/QUOTE] That data does not mean what you think it means, its just that British researchers and universities are far more efficient 'with their money' due to lower corruption and better cohesion with the European science foundation. Also published papers do not directly relate to the 'amount of money spent' on research your people did.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;50696816] I'm sure the Leave side can sympathize with people wanting tax money to stay within the boundaries that collect that tax, rather than sending that money outside their borders.[/QUOTE] Isn't the point of research to further our collective knowledge and not just provide our academics with jobs? "We have this money but only our academics can use it" kind of defeats the idea of funding research [editline]12th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Blizzerd;50696869]Some background to this... The European scientific foundation or the ERA is not the same thing as the European Union, and thus scientific funding except for the studies explicitly funded by EU money are not even in the slightest at risk. This is purely political pressure applied to make the UK look bad, Guy Verhofstadt even admitted to this in an interview. Even the EU funded studies hosted in the UK or having UK member universities are not 'really' at risk, since there are plenty of non-member states that participate in these organisations. Perspective. [/QUOTE] I couldn't understand why the EU would suddenly ditch British researchers. If it's for political reasons then atleast it makes sense - even if incredibly stupid.
[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;50696915]Why would the EU continue paying for the research if UK no longer wishes to be a part of the EU? It's not like there aren't any other researchers [B] around the world[/B] that can be much easier supported through EU and such[/QUOTE] Of course there are plenty of good researchers around the world - why would you deliberately exclude the UK though? This just smacks of sour grapes - you left our club so we'll give the money we were giving to a British researcher to an American researcher instead.
[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;50696915]Why would the EU continue paying for the research if UK no longer wishes to be a part of the EU? It's not like there aren't any other researchers around the world that can be much easier supported through EU and such[/QUOTE] There arent any that are easier supported. and the EU isn't paying for it.
[QUOTE=Mythman;50696941]Of course there are plenty of good researchers around the world - why would you deliberately exclude the UK though? This just smacks of sour grapes - you left our club so we'll give the money we were giving to a British researcher to an American researcher instead.[/QUOTE] Their 'position' is being "reset" so they have the same status as non-EU researchers, and put on-hold until the terms of Britains will to corporate in this field is clear. EU's trying to minimize money loss in this fallout of a public vote.
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;50696869]Some background to this... The European scientific foundation or the ERA is not the same thing as the European Union, and thus scientific funding except for the studies explicitly funded by EU money are not even in the slightest at risk. [...][/QUOTE] Starred for the part after the edit, but regarding the first one: They are very strongly linked, [URL="http://ec.europa.eu/research/era/index_en.htm"]apparently being part of the European commission and all[/URL]. Specifically, the Marie Skłodowska-Curie Actions, [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl6Yc5SDeg0"]of six billion €[/URL], are [URL="http://ec.europa.eu/research/mariecurieactions/about-msca/actions/if/index_en.htm"]limited to EU and associated countries[/URL]. The European Research Council grants, amounting to 13 billion € also according to that video, [URL="https://erc.europa.eu/funding-and-grants/funding-schemes"]are limited in the same way[/URL]. What this means is that these are somewhat reasonable fears. When Britain exits, assuming they don't renegotiate these matters [I]completely[/I] seamlessly, funding could be (temporarily) cut for researchers operating in the UK, which could then indeed sink cross-border cooperative projects due to part of the team dropping out. (Besides, and correct me if I'm wrong, since when were researchers regularly compromising their funding to apply political pressure (at least in comparatively benign matters like this one)? That idea is, to me, just a little out there and seems like trying to shift the blame in this situation.) [editline]14th July 2016[/editline] As the article puts it, the UK just has to announce they'll keep the funding stable to solve most of these issues, though.
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