• Western volunteers fighting with Kurds in Syria leave to other militias because Syrian Kurds are "a
    37 replies, posted
[quote]Foreign volunteers fighting the Islamic State (IS) are leaving the Kurdish People’s Protection Units (YPG) and joining other militia’s due to the group’s left-wing socialist ideology. According to foreign fighters quoted by AFP, an exodus is currently underway of US and other Western volunteers from the YPG due their left-wing stance, with one US army veteran – referred to as “Scott” – claiming he decided not to join after finding out they were a “bunch of damn Reds.” Another British volunteer named Alan Duncan also said he had left the YPG, who are based in the Syrian Kurdistan region also known as Rojava, because of their leftist views and said he knew a number of other people were planning to leave soon for the same reason. Many have instead chosen to join Dwekh Nawsha, a Christian militia in northern Iraq whose ideology chimes more with western Christian volunteers than the intensely secular YPG. One Christian American volunteer, who called himself Brett, told Reuters that he had joined Dwekh Nawsha (which translates as “Self-sacrifice) in Iraq’s Ninevah province where Christian villages still held out against IS. ... Although the fight against IS in the Syrian Kurdish town of Kobane galvanised many right-wingers in the West, the YPG’s “democratic confederalism”, which espouses a libertarian socialist ideology derived from the writings of the US anarchist Murray Bookchin, has proved controversial. The YPG are also closely linked to the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) in Turkey, a formerly Marxist-Leninist group who have waged a brutal guerrilla war with the Turkish state costing over 40,000 lives. The group has been banned as a terrorist group in the EU since 2002. IS supporters themselves have often denounced the YPG and PKK as “commies” and “atheists” on social media. Other volunteers and supporters of the YPG have, however, remained with the group precisely because of the politics they espouse. "I come from a political family and I am a democratic socialist,” Greek volunteer Kristopher Nicholaidis told the YourMiddleEast website. ... "I believe that the YPG is therefore leading the greatest anti-fascist struggle of our time by fighting against IS jihadists,” he added. “I joined this struggle to fight against global fascism in defence of democracy and peace in Kurdish Rojava." Though ideological reasons have been cited for the desertion, others have suggested that the intensity of the fighting in Rojava – particularly in Kobane – was a more plausible explanation.[/quote] [url=http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/christian-foreign-fighters-deserting-kurdish-ypg-syria-because-theyre-damned-reds-1976493133#.dpuf]Middle East Eye[/url]
[QUOTE] with one US army veteran – referred to as “Scott” – claiming he decided not to join after finding out they were a “bunch of damn Reds.”[/QUOTE] why i'm not surprised. :v:
Lol what? Why is it so bad that they want communism for their communities? They aren't exporting it globally it's just what they want for their people.
What a bunch of assholes. Who the fuck believes in freedom for everyone but only if they get your specific freedom brand? I mean, the entire concept of freedom is their fucking ability to choose how they want to live. They want communism? It's their freedom to do so.
Those darn commies
[quote]one US army veteran - referred to as "Scott"[/quote] You are such a dick, Scott. In seriousness, augh. This doesn't surprise me, but auuugh. So long as they're for the establishment of a fair state where people will be able to live in peace and without the threat of tyranny, I don't give a shit what their politics are. They're better than who they're fighting.
[QUOTE=Grimhound;47186410]You are such a dick, Scott.[/QUOTE] He's still sort of risking his life battling against ISIS even if his political ideology seems silly.
Speaking politically, it never ceases to amaze me how ordinary lower and middle-class Americans, Canadians, Brits, whatever can be fooled into believing in trickle down economics. The USA isn't even truly capitalist, it's a farce of capitalism because of all the anti-competitive practices employed by large businesses, of which the copyright and patent office and the model of intellectual property in the States is a huge one. So you've got a bunch of poor and middle-class people who'll defend the filthy rich and let themselves be screwed because "I'm no damn commie!". That's what the Republican party in the US and the Canadian Conservative party is.
[QUOTE=Vengeful Falcon;47186445]He's still sort of risking his life battling against ISIS even if his political ideology seems silly.[/QUOTE] Yeah but if all forces against ISIS were "commies" would he still be doing it?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47186806]Yeah but if all forces against ISIS were "commies" would he still be doing it?[/QUOTE] If he doesn't want to fight ISIS that's his decision as well. Him going to fight ISIS is entirely voluntary, just like the vast majority of people's decision to not go fight ISIS.
[QUOTE=archangel125;47186585]Speaking politically, it never ceases to amaze me how ordinary lower and middle-class Americans, Canadians, Brits, whatever can be fooled into believing in trickle down economics. The USA isn't even truly capitalist, it's a farce of capitalism because of all the anti-competitive practices employed by large businesses, of which the copyright and patent office and the model of intellectual property in the States is a huge one. So you've got a bunch of poor and middle-class people who'll defend the filthy rich and let themselves be screwed because "I'm no damn commie!". That's what the Republican party in the US and the Canadian Conservative party is. [editline]21st February 2015[/editline] Our current conservative government is using very anti-democratic practices to quietly undermine our national healthcare, the pride of this country. Harper needs to go.[/QUOTE] Just because you don't believe in left wing economics doesn't mean you believe in 'trickle-down' economics. It's possible to not like either.
[QUOTE=Grimhound;47186410]You are such a dick, Scott.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Vengeful Falcon;47186445]He's still sort of risking his life battling against ISIS even if his political ideology seems silly.[/QUOTE] South Park reference.
[QUOTE=draugur;47186390]What a bunch of assholes. Who the fuck believes in freedom for everyone but only if they get your specific freedom brand? I mean, the entire concept of freedom is their fucking ability to choose how they want to live. They want communism? It's their freedom to do so.[/QUOTE] To be fair, they're joining militias out of their own choice. They can choose to leave if it turns out the groups views are distasteful to them.
It's pretty pathetic when you go to defend people from ISIS only to realize that your political views align more closely with ISIS than the people you set out to protect.
[QUOTE=archangel125;47186585]Speaking politically, it never ceases to amaze me how ordinary lower and middle-class Americans, Canadians, Brits, whatever can be fooled into believing in trickle down economics. The USA isn't even truly capitalist, it's a farce of capitalism because of all the anti-competitive practices employed by large businesses, of which the copyright and patent office and the model of intellectual property in the States is a huge one. So you've got a bunch of poor and middle-class people who'll defend the filthy rich and let themselves be screwed because "I'm no damn commie!". That's what the Republican party in the US and the Canadian Conservative party is. Our current conservative government is using very anti-democratic practices to quietly undermine our national healthcare, the pride of this country. Harper needs to go.[/QUOTE] I like how this post is barely even tangentially related to the thread topic, before descending into a nonsensical rant that ends with "Harper needs to go." Harper and the Canadian government have fuck all to do with ISIS and Kurds lmao
[QUOTE=Deng;47187982]I like how this post is barely even tangentially related to the thread topic, before descending into a nonsensical rant that ends with "Harper needs to go." Harper and the Canadian government have fuck all to do with ISIS and Kurds lmao[/QUOTE] His post got off-topic with the Harper stuff but I think the principle point was something along the lines of [I]"I don't like how anti-communist culture can be used to sabotage things that are basically and objectively good"[/I] Petty political labels should not trump peoples ability to live a long healthy life, be it a life free of debilitating diseases (ergo: healthcare) or bullets to the back of the head/being decapitated (ergo: needing to fight isis)
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;47188046]His post got off-topic with the Harper stuff but I think the principle point was something along the lines of [I]"I don't like how anti-communist culture can be used to sabotage things that are basically and objectively good"[/I] Petty political labels should not trump peoples ability to live a long healthy life, be it a life free of debilitating diseases (ergo: healthcare) or bullets to the back of the head/being decapitated (ergo: needing to fight isis)[/QUOTE] If that's the principle point of his post, he worded it pretty shitty.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;47188046][I]"I don't like how anti-communist culture can be used to sabotage things that are basically and objectively good"[/I][/QUOTE] I don't think anti-communist culture has much to do with much of his rant, considering that most of it is aimed squarely at the USA or Canada for them being undemocratic or some other stupid bullshit.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;47187973]It's pretty pathetic when you go to defend people from ISIS only to realize that your political views align more closely with ISIS than the people you set out to protect.[/QUOTE] Nice "If you're not with us, you're against us" mentality you have there. He doesn't have to fight for them if he doesn't believe their ideology. Why fight ISIS if you think the side you're fighting for will be no different?
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;47188709][b]Nice "If you're not with us, you're against us" mentality you have there.[/b] He doesn't have to fight for them if he doesn't believe their ideology. Why fight ISIS if you think the side you're fighting for will be no different?[/QUOTE] [i]"More closely"[/i] I've clearly made the suggestion that there's a spectrum of political beliefs here and not just black/white.
Sounds like a bunch of limp-dick wannabe crusaders who don't actually care about the people of the region- they just want to sate their murderboners on guilt-free Islam killing.
If I had the choice of fighting with people who shared my beliefs and people who didn't, I'd pick the former over the latter. If there was no choice I wouldn't mind cooperating with people I don't particularly like if we're working towards the same goal. It just so happens that in this circumstance they have a choice, I don't really blame them for making it. It depends on what kind of "reds" they are too. Are they the healthcare and basic income for everyone type or the firing squad for those who get in the way type? They're probably the former but in the event they were the latter I wouldn't want to work with them either.
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;47186148]why i'm not surprised[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Grimhound;47186410]You are such a dick, Scott.[/QUOTE] :(
[QUOTE=Zeke129;47188968][i]"More closely"[/i] I've clearly made the suggestion that there's a spectrum of political beliefs here and not just black/white.[/QUOTE] American conservatism shares very little in common with ISIS, if at all. You would be hard pressed to argue them as being closer to ISIS than a bunch of commies.
its crazy how much cold war propaganda has fucked with people's minds
[QUOTE]intensely secular[/QUOTE] We [I]really strongly[/I] do not hold any religious opinion one way or the other.
[QUOTE=draugur;47186390]What a bunch of assholes. Who the fuck believes in freedom for everyone but only if they get your specific freedom brand? I mean, the entire concept of freedom is their fucking ability to choose how they want to live. They want communism? It's their freedom to do so.[/QUOTE] Communism doesn't allow you to "choose how to live", an thus cannot be considered a "freedom brand". If the YPG want to establish a communist state the volunteers are right not to help them. Claiming it's their "freedom to do so" isn't uncomplicated either. YPG and IS are both fighting to establish a currently unregonized state. Obviously their ideals matter.
god bless capitalism.
[QUOTE=MoonlessNight;47198158]Communism doesn't allow you to "choose how to live", an thus cannot be considered a "freedom brand".[/quote] See: difference between individualistic and collective humanism, freedom is a broad concept [quote]Claiming it's their "freedom to do so" isn't uncomplicated either. YPG and IS are both fighting to establish a currently unregonized state.[/QUOTE] Every state that currently exists right now was at one point an unrecognized state. If you can't tell the basics of right and wrong when comparing secular communists and [I]ISIS[/I] then you need a reality check. As for legality, as long as you are not participating in war crimes against civilians it's probably not illegal to participate in a foreign militia, or at the very least nobody would bother prosecuting you for it on return.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;47198464]See: difference between individualistic and collective humanism, freedom is a broad concept[/QUOTE] Much of the experiences of the 20th century would seem to show that most people in the Communist states tended to regard that poorly.
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