North Korea 'executes' army chief of staff Ri Yong-gil - Polidicks

[img]http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/15194/production/_88202468_88202465.jpg[/img] [quote]North Korea has executed its army chief of staff Ri Yong-gil, according to unconfirmed South Korean media reports. Senior officials in North Korea have previously been absent from view for long periods only to reappear. However, Gen Ri would be the latest of several high-ranking officials to be purged under leader Kim Jong-un. South Korean media reported that Gen Ri had been executed earlier this month for [B]corruption [/B]and "factional conspiracy". The reports of Gen Ri's execution come days after the North launched a long-range rocket, which critics say is a test of banned missile technology. In January the North carried out its fourth nuclear test. Some observers say the regime's recent behaviour may be linked to [B]Kim Jong-un wanting to shore up his position ahead of a rare congress of the ruling Workers' Party due in May[/B].[/quote] More in article: [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-35543364[/url] Let's play spot the irony above. It's assumed that this'll strengthen US/international pressure on China to clamp down on the regime (See: John Kerry's recent warnings), and amidst further tensions with Japan since the nuclear test and more recently the launch of the satellite Kwangmyongsong-4. The source is from unconfirmed SK media reports, so of course it isn't 100% proven to be accurate, but it's likely to be true.

North Korea has to implode sometime in the next ten years. The Old Guard being pushed out like this won't sit well with them that long.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49713296]North Korea has to implode sometime in the next ten years. The Old Guard being pushed out like this won't sit well with them that long.[/QUOTE] Who would be the influencing nation if that happened? China, Russia, Japan, South Korea? The regime collapsing instantly would cause unforeseen turmoil to whomever takes the reigns. Unfortunately though it look like that may happen as the citizens in NK are becoming ever so slightly more "international" and aware. The Kim dynasty are too "settled down" on their new throne since the end of the Korean War and assuredly wouldn't go down without a fight. North Korea in my opinion, had the Soviet Union not fallen and left the country isolated and uncatered for, would have been a lot better off. South Korea got the U.S and the North got the USSR, the U.S lasted longer of course.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49713296]North Korea has to implode sometime in the next ten years. The Old Guard being pushed out like this won't sit well with them that long.[/QUOTE] Considering that they survived the fall of communism, a famine, and have defied predictions of collapse for over twenty years I doubt now or in the next few years there being any chance of that

As far as I know, Japan has just about zero relations with North Korea and is one of the number one most hated nation to them next to the US. An internal implosion would probably not be influenced by any outside nation, and if it were, it would most likely only be China. A regime collapse would be terrible in the short run but at least has the [I]possibility[/I] of turning good in the long term for the nation.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49713331]Considering that they survived the fall of communism, a famine, and have defied predictions of collapse for over twenty years I doubt now or in the next few years there being any chance of that[/QUOTE] They survived the fall of the USSR because pro-North-Korean/anti-South-Korean/Western sentiment was at it's highest, being fresh out of the civil war in their minds and newly 'independent' from Japan in 1945. They survived the famine because China didn't want to pick up the mess, nor did the west as they were already 'communist' and so they dug their claws into them economically sort of like a life-support machine. It's enough to stay alive, not enough to live. The isolationism was easier to keep up, as the natives believed it was the right thing to do. Now, thanks to the internet they are receiving a lot more negative press about their government and they're missing their families. The increased number of NK defectors playing a global role in the opening up of NK are also playing a vital role in their re-emergence. It's a matter of time, but I think it will be the people that will revolt first. [editline]10th February 2016[/editline] The country has been divided for so long that there are now clear linguistic differences between South Korean and North Korean [video=youtube;ym3HnjBxPsw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym3HnjBxPsw[/video]

[QUOTE=Cypher_09;49713371]They survived the fall of the USSR because pro-North-Korean/anti-South-Korean/Western sentiment was at it's highest, being fresh out of the civil war in their minds and newly 'independent' from Japan in 1945. They survived the famine because China didn't want to pick up the mess, nor did the west as they were already 'communist' and so they dug their claws into them economically sort of like a life-support machine. It's enough to stay alive, not enough to live. The isolationism was easier to keep up, as the natives believed it was the right thing to do. Now, thanks to the internet they are receiving a lot more negative press about their government and they're missing their families. The increased number of NK defectors playing a global role in the opening up of NK are also playing a vital role in their re-emergence. It's a matter of time, but I think it will be the people that will revolt first.[/QUOTE] On the other hand, the North Korean people (strange as it may seem) don't actually really have much aspirations on overthrowing their government. While they may not like the regime much of the time and don't like many of its aspects, they also see it as "theirs". The Kim Dynasty is basically a monarchy at this point, and enjoys enough legitimacy that it's very difficult to actually mobilize opposition towards him. In the country itself there are really no opposition groups of any kind. Any opponents of the regime that do exist are few in number, often isolated from one another, and they typically flee to China or South Korea anyways. With this in mind, it's very difficult to see why North Korea should fall to rebellion. Rioting and peasant rebellions are rare in North Korea too (or well suppressed). Even if there were a popular uprising, the North Korean government would most likely crush them like the Chinese did in their respective country in 1989 (they might even receive assistance from China).

An uprising would fail the moment it began simply because citizens aren't fed well to begin with whereas the military is well kept and groomed, also the consequences of harsh labour and gulag/nazi concentration camps tier imprisonment is too much to handle

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;49713720]An uprising would fail the moment it began simply because citizens aren't fed well to begin with whereas the military is well kept and groomed, also the consequences of harsh labour and gulag/nazi concentration camps tier imprisonment is too much to handle[/QUOTE] Only if there aren't military defectors.

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;49713720]An uprising would fail the moment it began simply because citizens aren't fed well to begin with whereas the military is well kept and groomed, also the consequences of harsh labour and gulag/nazi concentration camps tier imprisonment is too much to handle[/QUOTE] Do you think all of these people are 'well kept and groomed'? That is far from the truth. Hell, the officers stationed on the DMZ rely on South Korean news broadcasts for their reliability, as the loudspeakers are something they have become used to on a daily basis. [img]http://i.imgur.com/n8nAQ5g.png[/img] A lot of the people don't hear about the consequences against the government until they found out that somebody they used to know has ended up in a forced labour camp somewhere they don't know where. I highly recommend this video, also: [video=youtube;PdxPCeWw75k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdxPCeWw75k[/video]

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49713347]As far as I know, Japan has just about zero relations with North Korea and is one of the number one most hated nation to them next to the US. An internal implosion would probably not be influenced by any outside nation, and if it were, it would most likely only be China. A regime collapse would be terrible in the short run but at least has the [I]possibility[/I] of turning good in the long term for the nation.[/QUOTE] Free markets are creating change. [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/27/opinion/global/The-Market-Shall-Set-North-Korea-Free.html?_r=0[/url]

I can't wait for that moment when North Korea announces "oh uh Kim Jong-Un accidently went missing while fly fishing, this guy is our new great leader!!1!"

[QUOTE=Cypher_09;49713371]They survived the fall of the USSR because pro-North-Korean/anti-South-Korean/Western sentiment was at it's highest, being fresh out of the civil war in their minds and newly 'independent' from Japan in 1945. They survived the famine because China didn't want to pick up the mess, nor did the west as they were already 'communist' and so they dug their claws into them economically sort of like a life-support machine. It's enough to stay alive, not enough to live. The isolationism was easier to keep up, as the natives believed it was the right thing to do. Now, thanks to the internet they are receiving a lot more negative press about their government and they're missing their families. The increased number of NK defectors playing a global role in the opening up of NK are also playing a vital role in their re-emergence. It's a matter of time, but I think it will be the people that will revolt first. [editline]10th February 2016[/editline] The country has been divided for so long that there are now clear linguistic differences between South Korean and North Korean [video=youtube;ym3HnjBxPsw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym3HnjBxPsw[/video][/QUOTE] It's difficult for a language to evolve when there is literally a [b]complete and total absence[/b] of pop-culture.

So linguistic anthropology doesn't exist then? Language develops on so much more than pop culture alone. Things like economic turmoil, disasters, trade, and cultural linguistic exchange shape language so well, we can reliably match our history to it.

[QUOTE=ewitwins;49714585]It's difficult for a language to evolve when there is literally a [b]complete and total absence[/b] of pop-culture.[/QUOTE] It isn't so much the scientific fact of it, which is all true of course, it's more the fact that it's a complete and utter shame for the Korean people that this has happened, who can't seem to ever catch a break since even before the Three Kingdoms period. During the Japanese annexation period, even Hangul was outlawed and replaced with Japanese language.

Well, North Koreans also largely refer to their country as Joseon, the original name for the Korean Empire. Used mainly in the context of the idea of the Korean peninsula as a whole, of course. Needless to say, there is a ridiculous difference in both language and context of the two nations, based on the people's collective mindset.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49713497] Even if there were a popular uprising, the North Korean government would most likely crush them like the Chinese did in their respective country in 1989 (they might even receive assistance from China).[/QUOTE] The Chinese aren't fond of the idea of a united democratic Korea right on their border, but Kim Jong Un has antagonized them, executing Chinese-sympathetic figures in the DPRK government including his uncle, and the PRC sees them increasingly as a liability rather than an asset.

[QUOTE=G3rman;49715317]Well, North Koreans also largely refer to their country as Joseon, the original name for the Korean Empire. Used mainly in the context of the idea of the Korean peninsula as a whole, of course. Needless to say, there is a ridiculous difference in both language and context of the two nations, based on the people's collective mindset.[/QUOTE] My Korean lecturer gets unsettled at the fact that the DPRK calls themselves Choson Minjujuui Inmin Konghwaguk 조선민주주의인민공화국 because he says the Choson dynasty ended upon the assassination of King Kojong in 1907 and that the DPRK chose the name for revolutionary purposes and it's namesake alone. I agree with him. But he's so passionate about it, it's a combination of heartbreaking and inspiring as all he wants to do in life is contribute to the reunification of the two Koreas.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49713347]As far as I know, Japan has just about zero relations with North Korea and is one of the number one most hated nation to them next to the US. An internal implosion would probably not be influenced by any outside nation, and if it were, it would most likely only be China. A regime collapse would be terrible in the short run but at least has the [I]possibility[/I] of turning good in the long term for the nation.[/QUOTE] idk if china would want to scoop them up under some kind of two-state-one-country scheme, any deal would have to involve SK though, but i thought north koreans were like mexicans to chinese, in that they don't really like them and they take their jobs at lower wages (which is ironic for china i guess)

[QUOTE=Sableye;49715619]idk if china would want to scoop them up under some kind of two-state-one-country scheme, any deal would have to involve SK though, but i thought north koreans were like mexicans to chinese, in that they don't really like them and they take their jobs at lower wages (which is ironic for china i guess)[/QUOTE] I was under the belief that China regularly deports North Korean defectors back to NK and that once in China, they have to find a way out of that country as fast as they can, usually to Vietnam or Australia.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49715718]I was under the belief that China regularly deports North Korean defectors back to NK and that once in China, they have to find a way out of that country as fast as they can, usually to Vietnam or Australia.[/QUOTE] Defectors, yes. However, large amounts of North Koreans are sent to, hey you guessed it, China and Russia to work really shitty manual labor jobs. There is also the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanbian_Korean_Autonomous_Prefecture"]Yanbian Korean Autonomous Prefecture[/URL] due to the high amount of NK folks living there. They are often made fun of in SK films as the equivalent of rednecks, hobos, and otherwise really old-fashioned people called upon to do odd jobs. Although, that prefecture is slowly going away since there aren't really any legal migrants anymore from NK, and the main reason the enclave existed in the first place was to escape Japanese Occupation, and later the Korean Civil War.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49713296]North Korea has to implode sometime in the next ten years. The Old Guard being pushed out like this won't sit well with them that long.[/QUOTE] I picture it going the way of Stalin, except instead of dying of a heart attack, it would be because Kim cut off all the heads of an imaginary snake in search of the perfect dictatorship without anything that could ruin it. But on second thought, he might die of a heart attack aswell...

And no one noticed "according to unconfirmed Sourh Korea reports". It basically means this can be a bunch of bullshit.

[QUOTE=Cypher_09;49713326]Who would be the influencing nation if that happened? China, Russia, Japan, South Korea? The regime collapsing instantly would cause unforeseen turmoil to whomever takes the reigns. Unfortunately though it look like that may happen as the citizens in NK are becoming ever so slightly more "international" and aware. The Kim dynasty are too "settled down" on their new throne since the end of the Korean War and assuredly wouldn't go down without a fight. North Korea in my opinion, had the Soviet Union not fallen and left the country isolated and uncatered for, would have been a lot better off. South Korea got the U.S and the North got the USSR, the U.S lasted longer of course.[/QUOTE] it's hard to discuss thing without the fall of the USSR because the fall of the USSR was the culmination of decades of economic mismanagement, not a few small events in 1989. The USSR couldn't have NOT fallen, since their economic model is essentially broken. Still, North Korea is where they are today because of their own mismanagement. The South had a similarly oppressive government for 30-40 years after the War, but they managed to grow their economy at unprecedented rates, rising to become one of the richest countries in the world with one of the highest standards of living. The North, however, suffers from China syndrome, in that everything that they have is just a crappier version of what the soviets had, which was already crap. China decided to abandon the old model and move towards the 21st century; so did Viet Nam; so did Russia. North Korea is the outlier in former communist block countries that kept the communist name AND economic mode of production. In the 1990s, they built a catastrophic dam which flooded upstream farms and is thought to be a large contributor to the famine in North Korea at the time. All around, it's impossible to think about the "what ifs" of a political and economic situation that is the culmination of nearly 50 years of politics. You'd have to go back and uninvade afghanistan, unblow-up chernobyl, undo perestroika, etc. to really get at the heart of the problems of former soviet satellite states. North Korea is just a catastrophically corrupt and mismanaged country. However, in the 1990s, there was a chance for change. Human rights activists often say that the best way to bring change to North Korea is to engage in constant dialogue and diplomacy; their reclusiveness is a defense mechanism that they use to keep their population uninformed and disjointed. In the 90s, under Clinton, Jimmy Carter had secured a non-nuclear proliferation treaty with Pyongyang, in exchange for the US building regularly inspected nuclear power plants. This was a very good step forward in international relations with North Korea, but when Bush gave his axis of evil speech and listed North Korea as an enemy of the United States, they formally withdrew from the treaty. We've had even colder relations ever since, failing to secure any kind of real diplomacy with these people. The closest we've come to establishing relations with them is, I think, when Clinton secured the release of American prisoners there. [editline]11th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=DoktorAkcel;49718141]And no one noticed "according to unconfirmed Sourh Korea reports". It basically means this can be a bunch of bullshit.[/QUOTE] This is very true. Often, rumors can be spread as fact in the mis-translation from Chinese/Korean to english. Also, a lot of the time, the sources for information on North Korea come from high up party defectors who haven't had contact with anyone in the country for several years, so they can only speculate on what's going on. For example, the story about Kim Jong-Un's uncle being fed to dogs was a joke made by a chinese blogger which had made it's way as a fact to the United States. Another thing to keep in mind is that the KCIA is still very much a cold war agency, with a heavy hand in spreading anti-NK propaganda which may be untrue. The KCIA still, I believe, holds that Kim Il-Sung was a revolutionary fighter who died in Manchura in the 1930s-1940s, and a communist cadre assumed his name because it was famous in the North, and used that fame to secure his domain over the soviet-backed North. However, I believe there's no evidence for this, the KCIA just says it to defame the Kim regime.