• Fox again: Court Upholds Expulsion of Counseling Student Who Opposes Homosexuality
    67 replies, posted
Sorry about using fox again, but a quick Google search shows that no other major news stations are currently covering this. [release]A federal judge has ruled in favor of a public university that removed a Christian student from its graduate program in school counseling over her belief that homosexuality is morally wrong. Monday's ruling, according to Julea Ward's attorneys, could result in Christian students across the country being expelled from public university for similar views. “It’s a very dangerous precedent,” Jeremy Tedesco, legal counsel for the conservative Alliance Defense Fund, told FOX News Radio. “The ruling doesn’t say that explicitly, but that’s what is going to happen.” U.S. District Judge George Caram Steeh dismissed Ward’s lawsuit against Eastern Michigan University. She was removed from the school’s counseling program last year because she refused to counsel homosexual clients. The university contended she violated school policy and the American Counseling Association code of ethics. “Christian students shouldn’t be expelled for holding to and abiding by their beliefs,” said ADF senior counsel David French. “To reach its decision, the court had to do something that’s never been done in federal court: uphold an extremely broad and vague university speech code.” Eastern Michigan University hailed the decision. “We are pleased that the court has upheld our position in this matter,” EMU spokesman Walter Kraft said in a written statement. “Julea Ward was not discriminated against because of her religion. To the contrary, Eastern Michigan is deeply committed to the education of our students and welcomes individuals from diverse backgrounds into our community.” In his 48-page opinion, Judge Steeh said the university had a rational basis for adopting the ACA Code of Ethics. “Furthermore, the university had a rational basis for requiring students to counsel clients without imposing their personal values,” he wrote in a portion of his ruling posted by The Detroit News. “In the case of Ms. Ward, the university determined that she would never change her behavior and would consistently refuse to counsel clients on matters with which she was personally opposed due to her religious beliefs – including homosexual relationships.” Ward’s attorneys claim the university told her she would only be allowed to remain in the program if she went through a “remediation” program so that she could “see the error of her ways” and change her belief system about homosexuality. The case is similar to a lawsuit the ADF filed against Augusta State University in Georgia. Counseling student Jennifer Keeton was allegedly told to stop sharing her Christian beliefs in order to graduate. Keeton's lawsuit alleged that she was told to undergo a reeducation program and attend “diversity sensitivity training.” University officials declined to comment on specifics of the lawsuit but released a statement to FOX News that said Augusta State does not discriminate on the basis of students’ moral, religious, political or personal beliefs. Tedesco said both cases should be a warning to Christians attending public colleges and universities. “Public universities are imposing the ideological stances of private groups on their students,” he said. “If you don’t comply, you will be kicked out. It’s scary stuff and it’s not a difficult thing to see what’s coming down the pike.” The Alliance Defense Fund told FOX News it will appeal the ruling.[/release] [url]http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/28/court-university-expel-student-opposes-homosexuality/[/url] If there is another station covering this, then my "Google-fu" is severely weak. The only other article I found was this one: [url]http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jul/26/lawsuit-claims-school-bias-on-christian-views/[/url]
Good. Her opposition to Homosexuality would surely hinder ability to do her job, especially since she wanted to be a school counselor where she's bound to get kids questioning their sexuality.
She was going to be a counselor. Why is the expulsion from the graduate program in school counseling bad?
[QUOTE=Fox;23686161] “Furthermore, the university had a rational basis for requiring students to counsel clients without imposing their personal values,” he wrote in a portion of his ruling posted by The Detroit News. “In the case of Ms. Ward, the university determined that she would never change her behavior and would consistently refuse to counsel clients on matters with which she was personally opposed due to her religious beliefs – including homosexual relationships.”[/QUOTE] Yeah, pretty much this. I understand the university's reasoning, personally.
[QUOTE=Glaber;23686161] If there is another station covering this, then my "Google-fu" is severely weak.[/QUOTE] Exclusivity means nothing.
Good she shouldn't be doing the job if she let's her beliefs cloud judgements and if they pre dispose her to have certain views of certain people.
[QUOTE=MrEndangered;23686351]Exclusivity means nothing.[/QUOTE] You mean nothing :smug: But in all seriousness, good, she doesn't deserve to work there if she's going to let her own religion get in the way of helping students.
[QUOTE] but a quick Google search shows that no other major news stations are currently covering this.[/QUOTE]:doh: Maybe because it's not worth covering? I'm sure the other half of the MSM doesn't cover half of the shit Fox does, for a very good reason. EDIT: [QUOTE]Tedesco said both cases should be a warning to Christians attending public colleges and universities. “Public universities are imposing the ideological stances of private groups on their students,” he said. “If you don’t comply, you will be kicked out. It’s scary stuff and it’s not a difficult thing to see what’s coming down the pike.”[/QUOTE] Ugh it wouldn't be a FN story without misrepresentation and histrionics from some jackass. This has nothing to do with her being a christian and everything to do with her being unfit to work as a councilor.
If her shitty religion clouds her thoughts, then maybe it is for the better than she'd be expelled. It would hinder her ability to counsel students questioning the birds and the bees.
Wouldn't her views on homosexuality be more an issue between who ever employers her and herself instead of the university giving the degree?
This was the wrong decision. That is what growing up to be a mature aldult is about. I say let her learn get a job. I mean, if I was a counselor I would support everything a child does (except drugs things like that) even if I disagree with them. Just because something might happen doesn't mean you should stop it from happening at all. Learning to be a counselor should involve knowing that everyone sees the same thing differently. So "what's wrong to you is right to them." even though I completely disagree with that statement, that's what the status quo seems to be today.
[QUOTE=Swilly;23686397]You mean nothing :smug:[/QUOTE] :rimshot:
good her bigoted views would do nothing but hurt patients
[QUOTE=mbutler2;23686551]This was the wrong decision. That is what growing up to be a mature aldult is about ... Learning to be a counselor should involve knowing that everyone sees the same thing differently.[/QUOTE] What? This woman is openly against gays. A kid comes in to talk to her about awkward feelings, and the danger is she could say 'You are evil, it's wrong and you're dirty. Here, call this man, he can fix you' rather than 'It's ok Timmy, it's natural'. You can't have these kinds of people in this sort of job.
and she refused to counsel homosexuals. that'd be like a doctor refusing to treat black people. there's nothing wrong with this ruling.
[QUOTE=The golden;23686711]This is usually not how religious and/or homophobic people work. They get set in a path and think everything else is wrong. The results are usually conflicts.[/QUOTE] Exactly, this isn't a normal opinion, it's an irrational belief, not something that's going to be easily changed or masked. She'll stick to her belief and end up doing something wrong/harmful to a kid, probably get fired for it, and then sue over her "religious freedom" because she thinks it's her right to do what she did. Bit of a slippery slope, but it seems the usual trend.
:foxnews: [B]Student Expelled from Counseling Program For Hating Gays, Court Upholds Attack On All Christianity[/B] :foxnews: Seriously, they're reporting this like it's an organized attack on religion itself. As posted many times before, hate of homosexuals is no better than hate of minorities. That's not going to stop the nation's most sensationalist news network from spinning it into an attack on the right wing. Someone needs to stand up in the Republican Party and tell them to STFU, the Republicans deserve more legitimacy than being a party of frenzied nationalists being spoon-fed by a news network that's purely in it for the money.
A smart move, yes. But one that can hold severe, unseen reprecussions.
[QUOTE=ExplodingGuy;23688199]A smart move, yes. But one that can hold severe, unseen reprecussions.[/QUOTE] But on the other hand, vague noncommittal statement intended to hide my true feelings on the matter.
[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;23688217]But on the other hand, vague noncommittal statement intended to hide my true feelings on the matter.[/QUOTE] Ah yes of course.
As long as they're not expelling students no matter what they are studying, then I'm in agreement. I mean if they expelled someone who wanted to be a ditch digger that thought homosexuality is wrong, I would have a problem with that.
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;23689206]As long as they're not expelling students no matter what they are studying, then I'm in agreement. I mean if they expelled someone who wanted to be a ditch digger that thought homosexuality is wrong, I would have a problem with that.[/QUOTE] You seem to have totally missed the point of this. This is a school counsellor who deals with kids are their incredibly personal issues, they need someone totally impartial to deal with the issues, this chick wasn't able to do that because of her beliefs.
Good job court system.
I see absolutely no problem with this. She's unfit to be a counselor. No two things about it.
[QUOTE=bravehat;23689320]You seem to have totally missed the point of this. This is a school counsellor who deals with kids are their incredibly personal issues, they need someone totally impartial to deal with the issues, this chick wasn't able to do that because of her beliefs.[/QUOTE] That's what I said... As long as they're doing it because of the proffession she chose rather than just because she's a Christian.
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;23689412]That's what I said... As long as they're doing it because of the proffession she chose rather than just because she's a Christian.[/QUOTE] If she cared about her profession more than her beliefs, there would be no problem to begin with.
[QUOTE=bravehat;23689320]You seem to have totally missed the point of this. This is a school counsellor who deals with kids are their incredibly personal issues, they need someone totally impartial to deal with the issues, this chick wasn't able to do that because of her beliefs.[/QUOTE] I think you misread his post. He was saying if she was, for instance, some person in a cubicle doing some random job that didn't require her to be impartial, it wouldn't warrant an expulsion. However, the job obviously requires impartiality, as you said. He's agreeing with the decision.
[QUOTE=Falineir;23690111]This is stupid, its like saying someone can't be a marine biologist just because they don't like squids or octopuses.[/QUOTE] Quoted my post from the other thread.
[QUOTE=Falineir;23690202]Quoted my post from the other thread.[/QUOTE] and I'll quote mine telling you why you're wrong: [QUOTE]It's not the same. She's not going to be studying students, she's going to be [I]their counselor[/I]. Seeing as how most private schools and all public schools aren't supposed to discriminate against homosexual students, her objection to homosexuality would interfere with her ability to do her job.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Falineir;23690202]Quoted my post from the other thread.[/QUOTE] It was a shit analogy. I made two in the other thread, go see those.
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