Anarchy: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need - General

Hello, FP. So today, after watching yet another car-arsonist being associated with Anarchy, I decided that it was time for me to stop fapping to tree-hugger news and go write a thread about [highlight]HOW ANARCHY IS NOT CHAOZ FOR FUCK'S SAKE!!!1!![/highlight]. Sooo... let's do it the FAQ way. (I will be gentle, don't worry) [img]http://www.my-os.net/blog/images/2006fevrier/anarchy.jpg[/img] [list] [*][B]WHAT THE HELL IS ANARCHY???[/B] Open up a dictionary, any online dictionary will do. And check out the definitions for Anarchy. you will most likely see something like this: 1.A state of society without government or law. 2.Political and social disorder due to the absence of governmental control: The death of the king was followed by a year of anarchy. 3.A theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society. 4.Confusion; chaos; disorder: Intellectual and moral anarchy followed his loss of faith. See where the confusion already lies? The definition of the word itself brings up two totally opposed meanings."Confusion; chaos; disorder" and "that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society." [*][B]SO YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE ORGANIZED SOCIETY THINGIE?[/B] Yes. Anarchy as a political theory is the rejection of any form of government and monopolized power. Instead, the power goes to people who decide together instead of relying on a shitty governement. Under Anarchy everyone is equal, and no one will give you orders. Decisions are made by people together, instead of being made by a fat-ass in a fucking suit behind a desk hiding a secretary giving him a blow job. [*][B]OMG WAIT!!! EQUITY?? THIS SOUNDS LIKE.... COMMUNISM!!! (GASP)[/B] This is yet another debate about what is good or bad about communism. But what people should understand, is that Communism and Socialism are two different concepts which are pretty close, but pretty different. And there are two different Anarchies: Anarcho-socialism and Anarcho-communism. Just like there is a commie govt (soviets) and a socialist govt (there are quite many). [*][B]HURRR BUT WE ALReADY HAv DEMOCRACY!!!!111!1!![/B] Fuck you. Democracy is like the cake, it's a lie. And unlike the cake, democracy is bitter. Under democracy, you have the "power" of choosing who will rule you. Problem is, democracy gives you the choice between a set of parties and leaders, even though you do not recognize any of them as reliable. It is like monarchy, except that instead of recurring to violence to have a new leader, you just need to band together and choose the other cunt. Another thing about democracy, is that you can have your own party, and thus become the "leader" you dream of. problem is, in order to be anything other than that-guy-who-licks-boots-for-a-recommendation, you will need to get connections, powerful people behind you, a huge number of supporters,... in other words, you need to have a mass behind you, and you will become just one of the two parties half the country doesnt believe in. Another misconception people are bred with about Anarchy is that its the same as democracy when it comes to decision making. The main difference is that decisions are made by the people, instead of their "leaders". For example, lets say that FP is a bunch of workers in a factory, there is no CEO, and we are thinking of getting new machines. Those who are directly concerned with those machines first decide wether theyr are needed or no. Then, they talk about it with the rest of the workers, and if the budget of the factory allows it, they acquire them. Under democracy, the CEO would do everything, and the workrs will simply: *Deal With It*. [*][B]SO LET'S SAY THAT WE LIVE IN ANARCHY... I CAN RAPE THat HOT CHICK NEXT DOOR WITH MY FRIENDS??? CAN I BE BOOBIES??[/B] You can, but you will have to assume the consequences. Sorry for breaking your hot wet dream. The fact that Anarchy doesnt recognize a higher authority doesnt mean that you can do whatever you want. It is an old myth and a lie made up by politicians. There are different anarchist currents, some do set laws (but these are decided between people instead of parliaments), and others do not enjoy the thought of laws, but clearly state that you will be punished by the community for unethical and dumb comportement. I will give examples further down. Remember tha most laws are either limits set by governments to tie a little corporates, or limits set by corporates to limit other corporates.(uhum patents?) [*][B]SOOOO.... UNDER ANARCHY... I CANT BE RICH AND POWERFUL??? :([/B] Oh. You entered the wrong thread, [thread=985749]this is probably more to your liking[/thread]. [*][B]BUT ANARCHY ISNT EFFICIENT, WE'R BETTER OFF WITH CAPITALISM FOR MAXIMUM PRODUCTIVITY, YO![/B] That's not as true as you think it is. It's true that the capitalist system is efficient, due to giving resources to where its most valuable. But an old Anarchist quote says: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need". Back in the Spanish Revolution, Anarchist communes often produced more than back when they were under the state. This is due to many reasons, ranging for the agreable climate, to the collective-management's efficiency. The major argument against collective-management is that it values the human resources more than the material ones. Giving as much importance to the workers themselves as to the production. This is a good thing from a humanitary view, but a bad thing from a capitalist point of view, which is how things are seen today. [*][B]ALL OF U GUISE ARE A BUNCH OF FUCKING DREAMERS, KAYOKAY GO POST IN THE SLEEP AND DREAMS MEGATHREAD![/B] NO U. Actually, the anarchist thought might be a bit Eutopian, but hey without optimistic thougts we would still be living in caves enjoying a cest pool. (I wouldnt, personally, mind a cest-fest though, just sayin') [*][B]OK. SO, THIS SOUNDS PRETTY GOOD. BUT HERE IS THE PROBLEM...... IT WILL NEVER FUCKING WORK! AS SOON AS THE GOVT IS DOWN THERE WILL BE RIOTS AND RAPE AND CEST AND FURRIES!!! OMG FURRIEEEEEESSSSS!!!!![/B] It is true, that, due to the majority of people getting used to being lead (not getting laid), a fall of the state can for sure bring upon us riots and rape and furries. But remember that this is only because people got used to being lead (not getting laid). If people learned how to assume their responsabilities, learned to respect each other, and learned not to listen to Justin Bieber, you might be surprised, and you will be soon enough. [*][B]MKAY. SO LETS SAY ITS POSSIBLE.... WHERE IS IT? WHY WOULD SOMETHIGN COOL LIKE THIS BE NOWHERE TO BE SEEN???[/B] Oh. It does exist, there are numerous communities of Anarchists living relatively independant vis-a-vis the state (They obviously STILL have to pay taxes, somehow...) But, see the point? The governement is right now what Monarchy was 400 years ago. Tell a king that a bunch of people want to elect a new king, and they would call him president and take off his crown, and the king will shit bricks of differnet size and colors. Same goes for the governement, tell a president that a bunch of people want to live without a state, and he will fire a rail gun on a puppy. The egalitarian and educated nature of Anarchy isnt very healthy for all systems based on monopolizing power and investing in the stupidity of people. Its obvious that this kind of parties will try to ban Anarchy as soon as they can. (And by parties, I obviously mean anaything ranging from political to religious, as long as it got power, it hates anarchy). [*][B]AWWWWWWRIGHT!! I CAN GIVE YOU A BILLION EXAMPLES OF ANARCHY GOING WRONG!11 STARTING WITH /B/!!1 huRrrr[/B] And I can give more examples of capitalism, democracy, monarchy and religion going wrong. so STFU. D:< And, /B/ is yet another misconception about Anarchy. /b/ is a place where you can post freely and anonimously, and thus people do it. /b/ is what it's supposed to /b/. (lol) Comparing an internet community where the goal is to be an attention whore with a society where the goal is to live without people ordering you around is rather bold, and only FoxNews should do it. [*][B]ERRR... SO DID IT EVER WORK, BEFORE?[/B] Many times. The factory examples I took earlier worked for years back in the [url=http://eng.anarchopedia.org/Spanish_Revolution]Spanish revolution[/url]. Another famous example is [url=http://eng.anarchopedia.org/past_and_present_anarchist_communities#Libertatia_.281670s_to_1690s.29]Libertaria[/url]. It's a city run by pirates, who, despite what you might think, are the first ones to instore democracy.(Pirates beat ninjas, I tell you) That wiki page along with [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_and_present_anarchist_communities]this one[/url] are interesting and you should check them. As said Murray Rothbardt, "The lack of recordkeeping in stateless societies– since only government officials seem to waste time, energy, and resources on such activities– produce a tendency toward a governmental bias in the working methods of historians." And that is why most Anarchist communities are ignored by historians. If I omitted something in this FAQ, or if there are unclear answers, please tell me and I will update it, because am that bored.[/list] [B]EDIT[/B] [B]"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" is communist not democratic. [/B] Nope. Communism is a vast ideology, and I will not debate on why its good or bad, but I will put its role in anarchy. The communism people are afraid of now, is the Authoritarian communism, which is basically the total opposite of anarchy, relying on the state for every single thing. in the old china, back when Mao was in power, the farmers would work together in giant collectives, and give the harvest to the govt who will distribute it (sell it) to the population. Under anarcho-communism the collectives will still exist, but the farmers themselves will sell or distribute their harvest according to the community's need. [B]The definition you linked to associates CHAOS WITH ANARCHY... lol.[/B] Indeed, and its so sad it makes me lol. The Anarchy I am talking of is a political point of view, it could be called "Non-Hierarchy", but it was associated with chaos due to the fact that, in general terms, without leadership people go berserk. More on this in the next question. [B]THE GREATEST FLAW OF ANARCHISTS IS THAT THEY CONCIDER MANKIND NATURALLY GOOD, WHILE THEY ARE EVIL.[/B] There have been countless debates about this subject and I will put my personal view on this, concider it my own and dont bash on anarchy because of it, but bash on me. I do believe that there are people born good, and people born bad. But I ultimatly believe that a person who was tought since childhood that he should not steal, but instead work, will not steal but work when he grows older. I do believe that what affects the way people think and behave most is the environement, and, right now, 99% are born in an average or poor family, thinking of how to get the food for tomorrow and the rent for this month. Under such conditions its natural for people to give more priority to things such as money and personal wellfare instead of thinking of the rest. The greatest example of this are Buddhist monks, they rarely steal or rape, and that's because they were tought about karma, good, evil and the balance of things, acions, reactions and consequences. And thus, such persons do not behave badely since they know the consequences of their actions. This is a luxury not everyone has, and most are born in modest environments surrounded with ganstas and da police. I do not expect those persons to understand the idea behind Anarchy, and, indeed, it might not work for them, which is where the next question is important. [B]SO THIS WILL WORK FOR ASHORT TIME/SMALL COMMUNITY. THIS WILL NEVER WORK FOR MANKIND/ETERNITY.[/B] And I hope it doesnt. Like everyting else, Anarchy got its goods and bads, and, like everything else, its supporters and its enemies. We do not believe that mankind will ever join Anarchy, and the key is to simply keep the world balanced between differnet systems instead of having one system monopolize the enitre globe. And, to answer the question, it does work for small communities and minorities. But if we do manifest and debate about it, its because the general public doesnt accept us as a political entitie, but rather as retards and lunatics with angst. Anarchists want a place where they could live in freedom without having a government behind them, but sadely, the governement conciders them as a waaste of manpower and the loss of tax, and will thus keep its propaganda to make us look retarded and to make the general publich hate us. [B]ANARCHY EXISTED BEFORE, IN STONE AGE, AND IT ENDED UP WITH MUSCLES PUNCHING EACH OTHER.[/B] Yet another misconception. That is called Despotism, the strongest wins. Anarchy is the organization of a community according to the power-to-people ideal. [B]MY DAUGHTER WILL GET RAPED BY A PSYCHO :([/B] She wont. First off, for people with psychological disorders and all, they kill as many people with governments as without, so why do you worry? And, as I said earlier, common sense and a good behavior are needed in communities. Their might not be a police station nearby, but the commnity is called community for a reason. And, just fyi, those who break a community's rules generally face a "court" and are judged by the said community. [B]HERP IMMA TAKE MAH GUN AND MAH BUDDIES, AND SHOOT DA BITCHES AND BE TEH LORD.[/B] Why would you do that? If you are an anarchist, who joined a community to live without the dumb authority behind you, you probably wont be dumb enough to rally people and declare yourself warlord, or to find gullible people willing to be your soldiers in the first place... [B]ITS HUMAN NATURE TO APPOINT A LEADER!!!![/B] I spent the entire OP telling you that me and a couple of persons dont want a leader... [B]WHAT FORM OF GOVERNMENT YOU HAVE?[/B] Anarchy. We decide together instead of waiting for a dumbster to make the wrong decisions and vote him off in favor of another dumbster. [B]IN THE END, YOU ARENT WITHOUT AUTHORITY, SINCE YOU SET RULES FOR OTHERS TO FOLLOW.[/B] There is a big difference between hierarchy and organization. We refuse hierarchy, but we do organize ourselves. This is what 99" of the people seem to forget. [B]ANARCHY IS GREAT IN THE SHORT TIME, I WANT TO SEE IT LONGLIVED.[/B] Thats what we all do, tell the government to give us the right to stay long enough, though... They dont enjoy it. [highlight]SO WHATS THE POINT OF THIS THREAD?[/highlight] Telling FP that there is a difference between chaos and anarchy, between hierarchy and organization. And that you should weep everytime the medias say 'anarchy' instead of 'chaos', because they are telling you lies.

4.Confusion; chaos; disorder: Intellectual and moral anarchy followed his loss of faith. So anarchy isn't chaos even though the definition is chaos ok

[QUOTE=markg06;24539584]4.Confusion; chaos; disorder: Intellectual and moral anarchy followed his loss of faith. So anarchy isn't chaos even though the definition is chaos ok[/QUOTE] You obviously have never used a dictionary before...

It'd never work.

hey guys i have a good idea. lets band together and take over some people, force them to do what we want. sound good? i agree. and bam no more anarchy.

[QUOTE=dirty harry;24539618]It'd never work.[/QUOTE] Christiania existed for nearly 40 years, and is still alive. :smug:

op is basically saying that hur dur you dont have to listen to anyone you dont want to. but that falls apart when one group collectively decides to fuck over another one.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;24539651]op is basically saying that hur dur you dont have to listen to anyone you dont want to. but that falls apart when one group collectively decides to fuck over another one.[/QUOTE] If you need to have someone behind you telling you what's morale or not, what's dumb or not, hat you should do or what you should not... You should go vote conservative and leave this thread. Anarchy is a community based system, and if you are going to start a community of war-mongers... well, guess what, you can go vote and they will do the wars for you. :buddy:

[QUOTE=kayOkay;24539694]Anarchy is a community based system, and if you are going to start a community of war-mongers... well, guess what, you can go vote and they will do the wars for you. :buddy:[/QUOTE] What if you're a member of one religion and the community you're in is made up of predominantly people of an "opposing" religion, and they vote to exterminate believers of your kind?

[QUOTE=Kybalt;24539651]op is basically saying that hur dur you dont have to listen to anyone you dont want to. but that falls apart when one group collectively decides to fuck over another one.[/QUOTE] But if this happens there will only be one community?

[QUOTE]From each according to his ability, to each according to his need[/QUOTE]I thought that was a communist quote. Albeit real communism is anarchism. Also, Christiana is a great example of an anarchy that works. Too bad that the Danish government is trying to shut them down.

[QUOTE=kayOkay;24539641]Christiania existed for nearly 40 years, and is still alive. :smug:[/QUOTE] Yeah cause Christinia is a perfect society, oh wait.

Well written and informative :golfclap:

[QUOTE=kayOkay;24539609]You obviously have never used a dictionary before...[/QUOTE] Quoted from Webster [quote] 1. a : absence of government b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c : a Utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government 2. a : absence or denial of any authority or established order b : absence of order : disorder <not manicured plots but a wild anarchy of nature — Israel Shenker> [/quote] It's more or less implying chaos because it is the most likely outcome of lawlessness.

I can see this is a valid idea on paper, but who is going to stop a rouge group of people?

HAHAHAHA It's human nature to appoint a leader. With leader comes a form of law. Anarchy is impossible moron.

[QUOTE=wonkadonk;24539717]What if you're a member of one religion and the community you're in is made up of predominantly people of an "opposing" religion, and they vote to exterminate believers of your kind?[/QUOTE] In order to be anarchist, you are already open minded enough to accept others. Have you ever heard of anarchists kicking jew butt or hindou ass? Because being anarchist implies that you accept others and concider yourself the equal of everyone else. Its under hierarchy that thoughts of superiority breed.

But life without law [I]is[/I] chaos.

tldr 12 year old who is mad that mom made him take the garbage out and now is a rebel who wants anarchy.

[QUOTE=kayOkay;24539641]Christiania existed for nearly 40 years, and is still alive. :smug:[/QUOTE] Due to ridiculous amounts of weed. Everyone living there are baked off their asses 24/7

So to you anarchy is "everyone is friendly and responsible, want to work as a group and help each other, without laws and government over them"? That would work if you could brainwash [B]everyone [/B]in the community to be what I've said under the "" but even if somehow you would have the resources to do it, you'd still represent authority, and set laws not by making them but by implementing behaviors in people. Why would you have to brainwash people to achieve this? Because "everyone is friendly and responsible, want to work as a group and help each other, without laws and government over them" is exactly the opposite of our human nature. People are greedy, aggressive and egoistic. If you'd remove the laws everyone would be doing what they want: stealing, raping and so on. There would be no justice done by community, just lynching and revenge (you raped my daughter have an axe in the brain). Which would lead to even more killings and other horrible things. There is a contradiction in the definitions you posted because number 1, 2 and 4 are the meaning of the word "anarchy" and number 3 is a short description of "Anarchistic, political form of government", however this is not accurate way of describing it as it is not really "a form of government" but "lack of government" same as atheism is not a religion, however when you're asked "what your belief is?" you can answer that you are an atheist. Same goes for your model of society, "what form of government you have"- "anarchy".

[QUOTE=lawl;24539838]tldr 12 year old who is mad that mom made him take the garbage out and now is a rebel who wants anarchy.[/QUOTE] Tldr 12 year old who is insecure so he finds a well written thread and shitposts without reading the OP

Communist slogan, lmao.

[quote]A theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society.[/quote] "Ok, we're all lovely people who are voluntarily cooperating." "Hey, I'm a dick. There's no Government around here, so I can intimidate people into doing what I want, because I'm an ascended high school bully who now is in posession of weaponry and a gang of feral youths! ALL OF YOU BOW DOWN TO ME, I AM ESTABLISHING MYSELF AS A WARLORD!" "Quick, run away!" "I can't! I got food poisoning from that restaurant because there's no longer a Food Standards Agency so they didn't get shut down for being unhygenic! And I can't go to hospital since there's not enough Doctors since the Medical Schools can't sustain themselves without Governmental grants!" "Oh no!"

[QUOTE=kayOkay;24539818]In order to be anarchist, you are already open minded enough to accept others. Have you ever heard of anarchists kicking jew butt or hindou ass? Because being anarchist implies that you accept others and concider yourself the equal of everyone else. Its under hierarchy that thoughts of superiority breed.[/QUOTE] There's no obligation for someone to always be nice in such a system. All it takes is one bad apple to fuck it all up.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;24539866]So to you anarchy is "everyone is friendly and responsible, want to work as a group and help each other, without laws and government over them"? That would work if you could brainwash [B]everyone [/B]in the community to be what I've said under the "" but even if somehow you would have the resources to do it, you'd still represent authority, and set laws not by making them but by implementing behaviors in people. Why would you have to brainwash people to achieve this? Because "everyone is friendly and responsible, want to work as a group and help each other, without laws and government over them" is exactly the opposite of our human nature. People are greedy, aggressive and egoistic. If you'd remove the laws everyone would be doing what they want: stealing, raping and so on. There would be no justice done by community, just lynching and revenge (you raped my daughter have an axe in the brain). Which would lead to even more killings and other horrible things. There is a contradiction in the definitions you posted because number 1, 2 and 4 are the meaning of the word "anarchy" and number 3 is a short description of "Anarchistic, political form of government", however this is not accurate way of describing it as it is not really "a form of government" but "lack of government" same as atheism is not a religion, however when you're asked "what your belief is?" you can answer that you are an atheist. Same goes for your model of society, "what form of government you have"- "anarchy".[/QUOTE] Atheists believe there is no higher power, it's an perfectly fine answer. It's fine to say that when they say "what is your religion"

[QUOTE=teeheeV2;24539868]Tldr 12 year old who is insecure so he finds a well written thread and shitposts without reading the OP[/QUOTE] In anarchy people would divide up into groups/gangs for control. There would be looting and pillaging everywhere. He would be the first one begging for the police to come save him if someone broke into his house. It's actually hilarious for someone to believe everyone would come together and hold hands in an anarchist world, lmao. Anyone who believes in such idiocy probably has no idea how the real world works at all, outside of what they learned in video games.

[QUOTE=teeheeV2;24539915]Atheists believe there is no higher power, it's an perfectly fine answer. It's fine to say that when they say "what is your religion"[/QUOTE] Did you even read it to the end? [QUOTE=my previous post]however when you're asked "what your belief is?" you can answer that you are an atheist.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BlackBirdNL;24539807]HAHAHAHA It's human nature to appoint a leader. With leader comes a form of law. Anarchy is impossible moron.[/QUOTE] Maybe you like being bossed around, not me.

Anarchy is a state of idiocy.