• Lawyers say no crime was commited in death of 3 at Ariz. Sweat Lodge
    13 replies, posted
[quote]The deaths of three people following a sweat lodge ceremony in northern Arizona were a tragic accident — not the result of criminal negligence, said attorneys for the self-help guru who led the ceremony. Lawyers for James Arthur Ray outlined their defense in letters to prosecutors that were released on Wednesday. The attorneys said holding a sweat lodge ceremony is a centuries-old tradition that is not inherently criminal or unsafe, and that Ray had no reason to believe anyone would be seriously injured or die. "Mr. Ray did not force anyone to participate, prevent anyone from leaving or brainwash participants before the sweat lodge event," stated a Dec. 1 letter signed by Ray attorney Luis Li. Prosecutors did not immediately return a request for comment Wednesday. Ray has become a self-help superstar by persuading people that his words will lead them to spiritual and financial wealth. He uses free seminars to recruit people to expensive seminars like the $9,000-plus "Spiritual Warrior" event aimed at conquering a person's old self and being reborn as a new person. The sweat lodge is the culminating event that symbolizes being in a mother's womb. Nearly halfway through the two-hour ceremony, people began to show signs of weakness and three died. Eighteen others were hospitalized with illnesses ranging from dehydration to kidney failure. Lawsuits filed after the deaths accuse Ray of negligence and fraud, among other things. Authorities haven't said what charges they might be seeking against Ray in a homicide investigation that threatens to topple his multimillion-dollar empire. But in late October, one detective told a witness that "we are going to be fortunate to get either reckless or negligent," according to documents released Tuesday. Authorities expect to turn over their investigation to prosecutors in the coming weeks. Many of the more than 50 people who attended the five-day "Spiritual Warrior" retreat near Sedona first experienced a sweat lodge under Ray's lead. Each signed a waiver acknowledging the ceremony would include tight, enclosed spaces and intense temperatures, and that serious injury and death were among the risks. Ray highly encouraged them to stay inside for eight 10-15 minute rounds as a way to break through whatever was holding them back in life, but no one was physically kept from leaving, his attorneys said. Ray advised them against leaving during rounds as a safety precaution in the pitch-black lodge that had hot rocks in the center, his attorneys said. At least one person opted not to participate, later telling investigators it did not appear safe. Others stayed in the entire time and reported having no problems, while some went in and out as they were overcome by the heat. Ray's attorneys said participants could have left at any time, through the front flap or by lifting up blankets and tarps that covered the 415 square-foot sweat lodge, though some participants recalled Ray chiding others for doing that. "It was not unreasonable and certainly not criminally negligent to expect people to know their limits and take care of themselves," the attorneys wrote. Only once between 2003 and 2008 did a participant in one of Ray's sweat lodges require professional medical care, the attorneys said. Since a man was hospitalized in 2005, they said Ray has taken steps to ensure participants' safety by limiting the number of rounds, holding the ceremony in daylight, setting up a recovery station and training staff in CPR. They are asking Arizona authorities to also consider whether environmental factors contributed to the deaths. Ray contracted with the owners of the Angel Valley Retreat Center to have the sweat lodge built, and his attorneys said it was up to the owners to ensure the sweat lodge was safe. Amayra Hamilton, one of the owners, told The Associated Press in late October that the staff had minimal contact with Ray and that the lodge was sturdy, strong and had been used for ceremonies with other groups without any problems. "The whole thing is, what do you do in that lodge?" she said.[/quote] Source: [url]http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=9553595[/url] TL;DR: A guru's lawyers (the guru ran a lodge where you can go to 'rebirth' yourself as a new person) say he should not be charged with negligent homicide or fraud even though 3 people died. Many others were taken to hospitals diagnosed with symptoms of dehydration to kidney failure. The guru should try his own medicine.
[img]http://gaygamer.net/images/Agent47.jpg[/img] Seriously.
I keep noticing quantities, usually prices, being described as >9000 dollars/euros/etc. I didn't want to point it out because the meme is dead and gone, but it's starting to drive me crazy.
[QUOTE=kellybear;19613339]I keep noticing quantities, usually prices, being described as >9000 dollars/euros/etc. I didn't want to point it out because the meme is dead and gone, but it's starting to drive me crazy.[/QUOTE] May FP have pity on you. [sp]Not[/sp] :cop:
Props to the Guru. This is comparable to that old story about boiling frogs in slowly. If you just sat there dehydrating yourself, no doubt feeling very unwell, you're sort of asking for it.
[QUOTE=Musicfreak59;19613015]Source: [url]http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=9553595[/url] TL;DR: A guru, who ran a lodge where you can go to 'rebirth' yourself as a new person, is not being charged with negligent homicide or fraud even thought 3 people died.[/QUOTE] What? It doesn't say he's not being charged. It says HIS OWN LAWYERS say he's innocent.
[QUOTE=TH89;19613823]What? It doesn't say he's not being charged. It says HIS OWN LAWYERS say he's innocent.[/QUOTE] [quote]TL;DR: A guru's lawyers (the guru ran a lodge where you can go to 'rebirth' yourself as a new person) say he should not be charged with negligent homicide or fraud even though 3 people died. Many others were taken to hospitals diagnosed with symptoms of dehydration to kidney failure.[/quote] Happy?
Yes [editline]10:56PM[/editline] Also, this is very a relevant video about these new age douchebags: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCLmT_M-qtk[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CPxoSp58pE[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I7VkcIWMtY[/media]
People's fault for signing up in the first place.
[QUOTE=:smug:;19614095]People's fault for signing up in the first place.[/QUOTE] How can you say that? It's not like he advertises the fact that you could seriously injure yourself or die. That's like saying it's the passengers fault if a drunk taxi driver kills them.
I dont think they knew they would be sitting in a sauna for a couple hours. Plus I'm kind of assuming when someone tried to leave because they didn't feel good the leader would say something like: "Oh you're supposed to feel like that, you're ascending to a higher state of mind" or some shit like that. Self help groups are full of bull
[QUOTE=Boobookittyfuck;19614159]How can you say that? It's not he advertises the fact that you could seriously injure yourself and or die. That's like saying it's the passengers fault if a drunk taxi driver kills them.[/QUOTE] They have to sign a waver that says that serious injury or death can occur. Unless they were idiots and didn't read what they signed, he did advertise it. [editline]05:08PM[/editline] [QUOTE=larrylumpy;19614160]I dont think they knew they would be sitting in a sauna for a couple hours.[/QUOTE] [quote]Each signed a waiver acknowledging the ceremony would include tight, enclosed spaces and intense temperatures[/quote]
[QUOTE=Shugo589;19614191]They have to sign a waver that says that serious injury or death can occur. Unless they were idiots and didn't read what they signed, he did advertise it.[/QUOTE] You have to sign a waiver doing a lot of things. That doesn't mean the guy in charge doesn't bear any responsibility for creating fatal conditions. He essentially stole a the idea of a native american sweat lodge, built it wrong so that there was no real ventilation, and crammed 10 times as many people into it as there are supposed to be.
[QUOTE=TH89;19614282]You have to sign a waiver doing a lot of things. That doesn't mean the guy in charge doesn't bear any responsibility for creating fatal conditions. He essentially stole a the idea of a native american sweat lodge, built it wrong so that there was no real ventilation, and crammed 10 times as many people into it as there are supposed to be.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying that the waver makes him immune to all laws, I'm just saying that they DID know that there was a possibility of dying or getting really injured.
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