New National Security Advisor H.R. McMaster Breaks With Administration on Views of Islam - Polidicks

[quote=New York Times] WASHINGTON — President Trump’s [URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/20/us/politics/mcmaster-national-security-adviser-trump.html"]newly appointed national security adviser[/URL] has told his staff that Muslims who commit terrorist acts are perverting their religion, rejecting a key ideological view of other senior Trump advisers and signaling a potentially more moderate approach to the Islamic world. The adviser, Lt. Gen. H. R. McMaster, told the staff of the [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/n/national_security_council/index.html?inline=nyt-org"]National Security Council[/URL] on Thursday, in his first “all hands” staff meeting, that the label “radical Islamic terrorism” was not helpful because terrorists are “un-Islamic,” according to people who were in the meeting. That is a repudiation of the language regularly used by both the president and General McMaster’s predecessor, Michael T. Flynn, [URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/13/us/politics/donald-trump-national-security-adviser-michael-flynn.html"]who resigned last week[/URL] after admitting that he had misled Vice President Mike Pence and other officials about a phone call with a Russian diplomat. It is also a sign that General McMaster, a veteran of the Iraq war known for his sense of history and independent streak, might move the council away from the ideologically charged views of Mr. Flynn, who was also a three-star Army general before retiring.[/quote] [URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/24/us/politics/hr-mcmaster-trump-islam.html?_r=0[/URL]

thank allah

McMaster continuing the tradition of military appointee's being the only good ones so far.

so how long until this guy gets fired then?

I personally think the idea of saying things like ISIS are un-islamic is idiotic/no true scotsman stuff and not a comprehensive view of the situation, but ok.

[QUOTE=Tudd;51872281]I personally think the idea of saying things like ISIS are un-islamic is idiotic/no true scotsman stuff and not a comprehensive view of the situation, but ok.[/QUOTE] Well, I mean.... they aren't. They're a death cult using Islam as a jumping off point. Their entire belief system revolves around creating a caliphate for the soul purpose of bringing about the apocalypse, and that they must cause as much chaos in the process. It's like saying the PIRA ,Army of God or CLM are totally indicative of Christian beliefs.

[QUOTE=Tudd;51872281]I personally think the idea of saying things like ISIS are un-islamic is idiotic/no true scotsman stuff and not a comprehensive view of the situation, but ok.[/QUOTE] I mean everyone knows the KKK is a Christian terrorist group so i agree with you in a way.

It just baffles my mind that appointees of a military background are the most sensible people in the administration. Normally you'd hope that only civilians would serve in the cabinet.

[QUOTE=Vodkavia;51872295]If ISIS was so concerned about the advancement of Islam why would they be putting it in such jeopardy internationally?[/QUOTE] Yes, why does the Islamic State not just use peaceful means to advance their caliphate that the Quran calls for? I rather they did, but to say they are just using Islam as an excuse is hilariously delusional. [editline]25th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Megadave;51872296]I mean everyone knows the KKK is a Christian terrorist group so i agree with you in a way.[/QUOTE] Alot of them are Christians, but I am pretty sure racist ideology is their main driver obviously. Not like you look at secondary traits to base their prime terrorist goal on. ISIS could be Arabic Terrorists or Ecoterrorists as leftist terrorists, and so on, but that be disingenuous imo.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51872095]McMaster continuing the tradition of military appointee's being the only good ones so far.[/QUOTE] He's replacing another general, though

[QUOTE=Tudd;51872281]I personally think the idea of saying things like ISIS are un-islamic is idiotic/no true scotsman stuff and not a comprehensive view of the situation, but ok.[/QUOTE] I find this comment incredibly disturbing. [editline]24th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Tudd;51872304]Yes, why does the Islamic State not just use peaceful means to advance their caliphate that the Quran calls for? I rather they did, but to say they are just using Islam as an excuse is hilariously delusional.[/QUOTE] Holy shit man 99% of muslims are peaceful.

[QUOTE=Tudd;51872281]I personally think the idea of saying things like ISIS are un-islamic is idiotic/no true scotsman stuff and not a comprehensive view of the situation, but ok.[/QUOTE] What makes you believe the person who helped bring COIN back [URL="http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/02/donald-trump-mcmaster-national-security-adviser-214804"]to great effect[/URL] doesn't have a "comprehensive view of the situation". [editline]25th February 2017[/editline] Possibly the literal smartest guy in the room when it comes to this topic and you think it's idiotic. .

[QUOTE=Lambeth;51872447]I find this comment incredibly disturbing. [editline]24th February 2017[/editline] Holy shit man 99% of muslims are peaceful.[/QUOTE] 99% is too pessimistic a number. Add a comma and a few more 9-s [editline]25th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Raidyr;51872475]What makes you believe the person who helped bring COIN back [URL="http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/02/donald-trump-mcmaster-national-security-adviser-214804"]to great effect[/URL] doesn't have a "comprehensive view of the situation". [editline]25th February 2017[/editline] Possibly the literal smartest guy in the room when it comes to this topic and you think it's idiotic. .[/QUOTE] This here is the most telling post about Trump's supporters I've ever seen. It's legit the culmination of a racist version of hte Dunning-Kruger effect.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;51872447]I find this comment incredibly disturbing. [editline]24th February 2017[/editline] Holy shit man 99% of muslims are peaceful.[/QUOTE] I personally find it funny that many, especially western liberals, somehow assume that the non-violent, peaceful interpretations of christianity and islam are the correct ones. Do you really think the people who wrote the bible or the koran hundreds of years ago shared your tolerant views? Yes, the great majority of muslims are peaceful, but many of them have regressive views and most live in countries that to some extend enforce a disturbing form of the sharia, with overwhelming support from their population. [t]http://i.imgur.com/AX9OmpF.png[/t]

[QUOTE=Tudd;51872304]Alot of them are Christians, but I am pretty sure racist ideology is their main driver obviously.[/QUOTE] lol so is ISIS, to them if you aren't arab you're pretty much trash. idk what your point is oh these horrible people are racially motivated while also being religious totally different

[QUOTE=EcksDee;51872610]99% is too pessimistic a number. Add a comma and a few more 9-s[/QUOTE] He's Canadian. Nowhere in the anglosphere are commas used as a decimal point.

[QUOTE=Niklas;51872627]I personally find it funny that many, especially western liberals, somehow assume that the non-violent, peaceful interpretations of christianity and islam are the correct ones. Do you really think the people who wrote the bible or the koran hundreds of years ago shared your tolerant views? Yes, the great majority of muslims are peaceful, but many of them have regressive views and most live in countries that to some extend enforce a disturbing form of the sharia, with overwhelming support from their population. [/QUOTE] And regressive views are fixed with education and women's rights, not prejudice, discrimination and racism. and most DEFinitely not war, wwhich trump seems to be a fan of

[QUOTE=EcksDee;51872635]And regressive views are fixed with education and women's rights, not prejudice, discrimination and racism. ad mot DEFinitely otbwar[/QUOTE] Yes, but you need to be watchful of what is actually being thaught in muslim communities. For example, here in germany we let many islamic supraorganisations (like DITIB for example) be the main source for islamic education for years, and we are just finding out now just how much bigotry they were/are spreading. Turns out religious organizations funded by turkey or saudi arabia, with imams being employed from those countries, is not such a good idea. I don't like the term regressive left, because i associate it with alt-right nutjobs mostly, but there are many examples of this happening in europe right now. I'm not aware of all the details and the views of the majority of the administration and it likely goes to far, but pretending there is no deeply rooted violence and other problems in islamic teaching is also dangerous. Don't expect the islamic age of enlightenment to happen without influence from western governments.

[QUOTE=Tudd;51872304]Yes, why does the Islamic State not just use peaceful means to advance their caliphate that the Quran calls for? I rather they did, but to say they are just using Islam as an excuse is hilariously delusional. [editline]25th February 2017[/editline] Alot of them are Christians, but I am pretty sure racist ideology is their main driver obviously. Not like you look at secondary traits to base their prime terrorist goal on. ISIS could be Arabic Terrorists or Ecoterrorists as leftist terrorists, and so on, but that be disingenuous imo.[/QUOTE] Um im pretty sure that second trait could be the fact that the west has been attacking the middle east since the birth of Islam. But no, its because being Muslim must mean you are a scurry turrist. [editline]25th February 2017[/editline] People like you make religion look bad.

[QUOTE=Tudd;51872304]Yes, why does the Islamic State not just use peaceful means to advance their caliphate that the Quran calls for? I rather they did, but to say they are just using Islam as an excuse is hilariously delusional. [editline]25th February 2017[/editline] Alot of them are Christians, but I am pretty sure racist ideology is their main driver obviously. Not like you look at secondary traits to base their prime terrorist goal on. ISIS could be Arabic Terrorists or Ecoterrorists as leftist terrorists, and so on, but that be disingenuous imo.[/QUOTE] Republicans are a more dangerous terrorist force than ISIS.

[QUOTE=EcksDee;51872778]Republicans are a more dangerous terrorist force than ISIS.[/QUOTE] Holy fuck, that's one hell of a non sequitur. When Republicans start committing acts of horror akin to what ISIS has done, then I'd be more inclined to believe you. Some Joe Blow Republican is hardly comparable to fucking ISIS, and you know it. You're going to have to back that up with some hard evidence. Kill counts, number of kidnappings, number of historical monuments destroyed in the name of religion, comparisons of organized military force, number of cities unrightfully seized and captured, ideological comparisons; statistics that you're going to have to provide. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_linked_to_ISIL[/url] If you can provide statistics of average American Republicans committing acts that rival these atrocities, then go for it.

[QUOTE=Boaraes;51873025]Holy fuck, that's one hell of a non sequitur. When Republicans start committing acts of horror akin to what ISIS has done, then I'd be more inclined to believe you. [B]Some Joe Blow Republican is hardly comparable to fucking ISIS, and you know it[/B]. You're going to have to back that up with some hard evidence. Kill counts, number of kidnappings, number of historical monuments destroyed in the name of religion, comparisons of organized military force, number of cities unrightfully seized and captured, ideological comparisons; statistics that you're going to have to provide. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_linked_to_ISIL[/url] If you can provide statistics of average American Republicans committing acts that rival these atrocities, then go for it.[/QUOTE] You kind of made our point without realizing it. The vast majority of muslims are peaceful, and its unfair to compare them all to isis. The vast majority of Republicans are peaceful, and its unfair to compare them all to the kkk

99% of Muslims are peaceful because 99% of humanity is peaceful. I cannot recall a time in history when a religious war was not just a pretext for some other political or economic gain for others.

Notice how I didn't say "scarier" terrorist force or anything like that. I said more dangerous. Which tbh is simple to prove. Republican obstructionism in healthcare reform and climate change are far more dangerous to American lives and humanity in general than ISIS could ever [B]HOPE[/B] to be. You might (to a degree of correctness) object to my use of "terrorist force," but tbh the potential extinction of humans and the [B]completely unnecessary AND AVOIDABLE[/B] deaths of 30 000 Americans a year due to a lack of access to healthcare purely because they're mercenaries who serve the highest bidder are MUCH scarier prospects to me than some awful semi-religious power struggles in the middle east.

[QUOTE=EcksDee;51872778]Republicans are a more dangerous terrorist force than ISIS.[/QUOTE] Stop, what are you doing.

[QUOTE=Tudd;51872304]Yes, why does the Islamic State not just use peaceful means to advance their caliphate that the Quran calls for? I rather they did, but to say they are just using Islam as an excuse is hilariously delusional. [editline]25th February 2017[/editline] Alot of them are Christians, but I am pretty sure racist ideology is their main driver obviously. Not like you look at secondary traits to base their prime terrorist goal on. ISIS could be Arabic Terrorists or Ecoterrorists as leftist terrorists, and so on, but that be disingenuous imo.[/QUOTE] saying that ISIS represents islam is incredibly disingenuous though if you were an alien who suddenly discovered about the rest of the world and wanted to know what Islam was, somebody might show you ISIS and if somebody is trying to promote the view that ISIS represents Islam, our alien would get the impression it's a religion of murderers, rapists, war, sex slavery, and all many of other nasty things?

yet another head added to the hydra, trump will still do what he thinks is best in his mind and gets cheers from his idiot base

[QUOTE=Megadave;51872671]Um im pretty sure that second trait could be the fact that the west has been attacking the middle east since the birth of Islam. But no, its because being Muslim must mean you are a scurry turrist. [editline]25th February 2017[/editline] People like you make religion look bad.[/QUOTE] How has the west been attacking the middle east since the birth of islam? Muhammad was the one who kicked off Islam's expansionism. They spread through North Africa, Spain, and would have invaded further if they weren't stopped by Charles Martel. Is Charles Martel now the oppressor for defending Francia from the invading Muslims?

[QUOTE=Tudd;51872281]I personally think the idea of saying things like ISIS are un-islamic is idiotic/no true scotsman stuff and not a comprehensive view of the situation, but ok.[/QUOTE] Yeah we know you would

[QUOTE=Niklas;51872627]I personally find it funny that many, especially western liberals, somehow assume that the non-violent, peaceful interpretations of christianity and islam are the correct ones. Do you really think the people who wrote the bible or the koran hundreds of years ago shared your tolerant views? Yes, the great majority of muslims are peaceful, but many of them have regressive views and most live in countries that to some extend enforce a disturbing form of the sharia, with overwhelming support from their population. [t]http://i.imgur.com/AX9OmpF.png[/t][/QUOTE] I don't really care as long as they're peaceful, which the vast majority are.