[QUOTE][B]Key Points[/B]
-Chancellor delays plan for a budget surplus by a year
[B]-New compulsory living wage of £9 hour by 2020[/B]
-£37bn of spending cuts planned for this parliament
-Cuts to welfare spending to save £19bn by 2020
-Borrowing for this year revised down to £65.9bn
-Public sector pay awards of 1% a year for next four years
-Mortgage interest tax relief to be limited on buy-to-let
-Tax on corporate profits to be cut to 18%[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-33383657[/url]
student maintenance grants are also gone from 2016-17, but they're replaced with a maintenance loan increase and the threshold to pay back the loan is increased. could be worse i guess
[quote]-Cuts to welfare spending to save £19bn by 2020[/quote]
This affects pensions and disability also. It's cruel.
[quote]-Tax on corporate profits to be cut to 18%[/quote]
So we're suffering from austerity (still!) to save money yet the government is REDUCING the amount they'll collect from taxes.
What a bunch of absolute cunts.
[QUOTE=Handsome Matt;48148324]Living wage means welfare can be cut a lot.[/QUOTE]
I don't buy it.
Welfare cut now for a "living wage" in 5 years. Unless minimum wage increased at the same time as the cut then for the next 5 years people will feel the squeeze. That's if it even covers the difference...
Self employed and interns also might/won't meet that living wage. How will they benefit. Part timers will also suffer.
[QUOTE=Handsome Matt;48148324]Living wage means welfare can be cut a lot.
[editline]8th July 2015[/editline]
I'm happy I'm going to be paying less tax on my small business, thanks. Bet you wouldn't be complaining if it was income tax getting reduced.[/QUOTE]
it was worded terribly so i have a feeling its going to confuse a lot of people into thinking its that thing where everyone gets money no matter their work status. from what i understand the living wage is basically a new band of minimum wage, where over 25s will have a £7.20/hr minimum wage next year, and by 2020 it will be £9.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;48148310]This affects pensions and disability also. It's cruel.
So we're suffering from austerity (still!) to save money yet the government is REDUCING the amount they'll collect from taxes.
What a bunch of absolute cunts.[/QUOTE]
it doesnt mention anything about cutting disability and pensions funding? im no expert but i think the point is more cutting work related state handouts but raising wages/tax allowance and cutting corp tax to cover the costs.
[QUOTE=Handsome Matt;48148324]Living wage means welfare can be cut a lot.
[editline]8th July 2015[/editline]
I'm happy I'm going to be paying less tax on my small business, thanks. Bet you wouldn't be complaining if it was income tax getting reduced.[/QUOTE]
Oh the vast majority of people who aren't self employed will be overjoyed to hear that you are ok with the changes imposed by the government elected based on the vote of the minority.
[editline]8th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Handsome Matt;48148356]Don't be self employed if your business plan doesn't work, simple enough.. You shouldn't be on welfare if you're self employed.[/QUOTE]
So "don't be poor".
I am just waiting for the bootstrap call
[QUOTE=Handsome Matt;48148324]
I'm happy I'm going to be paying less tax on my small business, thanks. Bet you wouldn't be complaining if it was income tax getting reduced.[/QUOTE]
Income tax on relatively low earners would gain much less money for the government than tax on a company.
Also you paying less tax on your small business is a selfish attitude. You benefit from the state. Liklihood is you have used free education, free healthcare. You might employ those who have used those services. Just because you have the money to think "huh cut welfare i don't need that" doesn't mean everyone is thinking the same.
It is also hypocritical for them to cut spending and claim austerity while lowering taxes on corperations - probably cancelling out the spending cuts they have been making.
Also by the looks of it there was talk about reforming taxes for small businesses. I support smaller businesses and they should be encourages, I am employed by 1. I don't support cutting taxes on larger corperations though, which is what they are doing.
[editline]8th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Handsome Matt;48148356]Don't be self employed if your business plan doesn't work, simple enough.. You shouldn't be on welfare if you're self employed.[/QUOTE]
Lots of people don't have a choice. Some cleaners for example are self employed so their employer can get round to paying them less, the cleaner does it because they have no other option. (for the record im not self employed)
[QUOTE=Handsome Matt;48148383]If the minimum wage is £9 and you're upset because you're not making that as a self employed person, stop being self employed.[/QUOTE]
You are arguing conflicting things though
On one side you are trying to imply that people who want lower tax should be self employed, on the other side you are saying that if you aren't successful enough, you shouldn't be.
No shit, if somebody is successfully self employed, they aren't going to have issues with the changes, the point is that most of everyone else will. You can't avoid the argument of "what about these people" by "don't be these people".
[editline]8th July 2015[/editline]
Also I find the
[quote]-New compulsory living wage of £9 hour by 2020[/quote]
Clause hilarious because that's something that will have to be decided by the [I]next government[/I] anyway. They could throw in a clause of "a pony or a lambo for every poor child by 2020" in there and it would have the exact same implication. The horribly confusing (people here are already thinking it's a flat payout) clause serves no other purpose but to make the budget look less stark than it is.
[QUOTE=Handsome Matt;48148383]If the minimum wage is £9 and you're upset because you're not making that as a self employed person, stop being self employed.
Find another job or charge your employer the actual minimum wage *shrugs*
[/quote]
Easy to say as someone who is employed. People are desperate, they need money, they need work and they will take what they can. Sure you can say "get a different job" might as well say "stop being poor" or "become successful". It's kind of ignorant.
[quote]
I pay national insurance and income tax to cover that stuff? Also I never said that about welfare, I said it wasn't such a big deal since less people would need to be claiming welfare with a higher minimum wage, because right now you can not support a family, yet alone yourself on minimum wage.[/QUOTE]
You think national insurance and income tax alone covers the costs of the country? No. The taxes your company pays and every other company pays or should be paying, help pay for the services we all enjoy. If you have a problem with that then we have different ideologies.
I still believe slashing vat to 10% will help the poor hugely.
[QUOTE=Handsome Matt;48148324]Living wage means welfare can be cut a lot.
[editline]8th July 2015[/editline]
I'm happy I'm going to be paying less tax on my small business, thanks. Bet you wouldn't be complaining if it was income tax getting reduced.[/QUOTE]
Because of your situation, I'd like there to be some sort of [B]progressive corporation tax[/B], just like we have with income tax. I know a lot of small businesses aren't raking it in, I think they should have lower rates of tax, but I also want corporate tax to go up for multinationals and large firms who certainly can afford it. I can only imagine the type of tax evasion that would occur with this system, however.
Because at this stage, what students really need is more debt.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;48148349]I don't buy it.
Welfare cut now for a "living wage" in 5 years. Unless minimum wage increased at the same time as the cut then for the next 5 years people will feel the squeeze. That's if it even covers the difference...
Self employed and interns also might/won't meet that living wage. How will they benefit. Part timers will also suffer.[/QUOTE]
Need time for the savings from cutting welfare to make a difference first.
[QUOTE=Antlerp;48148575]Because of your situation, I'd like there to be some sort of [B]progressive corporation tax[/B], just like we have with income tax. I know a lot of small businesses aren't raking it in, I think they should have lower rates of tax, but I also want corporate tax to go up for multinationals and large firms who certainly can afford it. I can only imagine the type of tax evasion that would occur with this system, however.[/QUOTE]
What's the point if dividends are later going to be taxed at the marginal rate of the personal shareholders, at up to 37.5%?
Even at a corporate tax rate of 18%, that would mean company profits are taxed at up to 48.75% unless the UK has dividend imputation rules I don't know about.
[QUOTE=Scot;48148588]Need time for the savings from cutting welfare to make a difference first.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. The "living wage" making up for cuts welfare is fallacious.
[B]New compulsory living wage of £9 hour by 2020[/B] - This doesn't take into account that the cost of living is going to have risen by that point, nullifying any 'benefit' this'd have.
[B]Cuts to welfare spending to save £19bn by 2020[/B] - Really? I know a few people suffering from disabilities that prevent them from working (my aunt has bad arthritis among other things and my uncle's her carer). Just another move against the lower classes by our Tory government.
[B]Tax on corporate profits to be cut to 18%[/B] - I'm sorry but companies don't need a cut on taxes, and this is from someone with a parent who's self-employed.[/QUOTE]
george osborne, the failed journalist and shelf stacker. economist? no, but why would the tories ever think economically anyway. this is an opportunity to punish the poor and disabled for not voting tory.
[QUOTE=Bobie;48149010]george osborne, the failed journalist and shelf stacker. economist? no, but why would the tories ever think economically anyway. this is an opportunity to punish the poor and disabled for not voting tory.[/QUOTE]
Not about punishing poor, don't say that, people will dismiss you as a fool.
Reducing public spending and reducing the services paid for by taxes drives people to use private services and means more money ends up in the private sector. This is their goal.
[QUOTE=Bobie;48149010]george osborne, the failed journalist and shelf stacker. economist? no, but why would the tories ever think economically anyway. this is an opportunity to punish the poor and disabled for not voting tory.[/QUOTE]
He has a degree in modern history. I think that says enough about his economic knowledge.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;48149028]Not about punishing poor, don't say that, people will dismiss you as a fool.
Reducing public spending and reducing the services paid for by taxes drives people to use private services and means more money ends up in the private sector. This is their goal.[/QUOTE]
you do realise that all of these cuts target people who [I]don't[/I] vote tory, right? the poor, the disabled and students. why else would they give a massive cut to corporate tax (which isnt even claimed on regardless) and extend the right to buy? its a thank you letter to their donors and supporters who helped them take control of a depressingly bleak election.
[QUOTE=Bobie;48149044]you do realise that all of these cuts target people who [I]don't[/I] vote tory, right? the poor, the disabled and students. why else would they give a massive cut to corporate tax (which isnt even claimed on regardless) and extend the right to buy? its a thank you letter to their donors and supporters who helped them take control of a depressingly bleak election.[/QUOTE]
Don't get me wrong. I dislike them vastly.
Its not about punishment though. It's about them making themselves, their buddies and some of their voters richer. It's an "i'm all right jack" attitude where a person makes their own money and if they are successful they get to keep it all, if they're not successful its because they weren't good enough. They don't purposely want to hurt the people who didn't vote for them, they just don't care if they do.
Its a capitalistic/libertarian attitude ( less/no state intervetion, low taxes, no welfare, no support, private sector supreme, privatising public assets, corperate interests generally held equal/higher than those of the electorate ) combined with a conservative and authoritarian attitude ( control what people do, surveillance, government power, decide what porn people watch ) combined with a general desire to keep the status quo ( no real change to the country, no smaller parties having much influence politics ) cept with the rich getting richer. (note their goal isnt poor getting poorer but it is a reault of their actions and it isnt considered an issue because to them the poor getting poorer is the poors fault)
[editline]8th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=MissZoey;48149039]He has a degree in modern history. I think that says enough about his economic knowledge.[/QUOTE]
That pubic louse Michael Gove is similar, was a journalist, tories decided they wanted him as an MP so they put him in a safe seat, guaranteeing him a place on the party, despite little/no qualification for the job. Made him minister for education and he mucked it up. (queue my fav cartoon)
[t]http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/3/12/1331571750348/Stephen-Collins-17-March--001.jpg[/t]
Now he's chief whip.
The opportunities and influence he's had because of his whacked beliefs. Its not a meritocracy, its who you know, and he seems to know all the right ones.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;48149095]Don't get me wrong. I dislike them vastly.
Its not about punishment though. It's about them making themselves, their buddies and some of their voters richer. It's an "i'm all right jack" attitude where a person makes their own money and if they are successful they get to keep it all, if they're not successful its because they weren't good enough. They don't purposely want to hurt the people who didn't vote for them, they just don't care if they do.
Its a capitalistic/libertarian attitude ( less/no state intervetion, low taxes, no welfare, no support, private sector supreme, privatising public assets, corperate interests generally held equal/higher than those of the electorate ) combined with a conservative and authoritarian attitude ( control what people do, surveillance, government power, decide what porn people watch ) combined with a general desire to keep the status quo ( no real change to the country, no smaller parties having much influence politics ) cept with the rich getting richer. (note their goal isnt poor getting poorer but it is a reault of their actions and it isnt considered an issue because to them the poor getting poorer is the poors fault)
[editline]8th July 2015[/editline]
That pubic louse Michael Gove is similar, was a journalist, tories decided they wanted him as an MP so they put him in a safe seat, guaranteeing him a place on the party, despite little/no qualification for the job. Made him minister for education and he mucked it up. (queue my fav cartoon)
[t]http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/3/12/1331571750348/Stephen-Collins-17-March--001.jpg[/t]
Now he's chief whip.
The opportunities and influence he's had because of his whacked beliefs. Its not a meritocracy, its who you know, and he seems to know all the right ones.[/QUOTE]
yes from what I've heard, the ministers of your country are a big joke. A chancellor without an economics degree is a disaster waiting to happen... well it is a disaster already happening, I suppose. What happened to putting the most qualified people in the right job?
Unfortunately it really looks like a sizeable portion of the British public voted irrationally.
What would really help is if you had free (and I mean unbiased) media doing their job and informing the people.
I think a lot of you Brits who are well-educated should emigrate the country and go to somewhere where you get paid more and have better standards of living, there's plenty of other countries out there.
That £9 minimum wage will help though, that's an increase from £6.50, so +£2.50 (~39%). If you consider in 2010 it was £5.93 and today it is £6.50, that's only a ~10% increase.
[QUOTE=Antlerp;48149163]yes from what I've heard, the ministers of your country are a big joke. A chancellor without an economics degree is a disaster waiting to happen... well it is a disaster already happening, I suppose. What happened to putting the most qualified people in the right job?
Unfortunately it really looks like a sizeable portion of the British public voted irrationally.
What would really help is if you had free (and I mean unbiased) media doing their job and informing the people.[/QUOTE]
I do think the media played a big role. They made out Ed Miliband to be an idiot. Sadly I and everyone I knew bought it, looking back he seemed like a decent guy with the right intentions, just slightly awkward. The media REALLY played on this and focussed on it. People thought labour would have been incompetent so that was 1 thing.
Another was the more racist/xenophobic/euro skeptic labour voters switching to UKIP. And the scots voting SNP instead of labour. (could have been fixed by having alternative/proportional voting)
Another thing were the lies told by the tories. The tories blame the recession on labour. The recession was caused by a lack of regulation on banks, at the time the tories were pushing for LESS regulation, so had the tories been in at the time it might have been worse. The tories have been playing on this ever since. Saying labour will cause another recession and people are stupid enough to believe them. They also have managed to build up this reputation of "we fix the economy" and "tough love austerity" despite not improve growth much and nearly veering into another recession during their last term.
Its shit. The electorate are too stupid to not believe what they are told. The tories are liars. Labour are divided. The media is sensationalist and 1 sided. The left has their papers but they are either joke new papers (the daily star who even reads that?) or pride themselves on being unbais so operate without spin (guardian).
[editline]8th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Antlerp;48149163]
That £9 minimum wage will help though, that's an increase from £6.50, so +£2.50 (~39%). If you consider in 2010 it was £5.93 and today it is £6.50, that's only a ~10% increase.[/QUOTE]
I'm concerned that with costs of living increases, inflation (hard to predict and wrong to use historic data but in the last 5 years its been approx 20%) and the welfare cuts the public aren't getting a good deal.£9 might seem like a deal now but I think when the time comes it will leave people unhappy. + the increase of "self employed" lower than minimum wage jobs, £3 per hour internships and part time work (this seems to be about level) is and will continue to be giving people a hard time.
This budget sucks if you're under 25. The Tories have already said they're going to get rid of housing benefit for anyone in that age range as one of the ways they're going to cut the welfare budget, whilst pensioners are untouched.
So you can be a millionaire living in Spain, and you'll still get a state pension and winter fuel allowance if it gets cold enough in the UK.
[QUOTE=GordonZombie;48148960][B]New compulsory living wage of £9 hour by 2020[/B] - This doesn't take into account that the cost of living is going to have risen by that point, nullifying any 'benefit' this'd have.
[B]Cuts to welfare spending to save £19bn by 2020[/B] - Really? I know a few people suffering from disabilities that prevent them from working (my aunt has bad arthritis among other things and my uncle's her carer). Just another move against the lower classes by our Tory government.
[B]Tax on corporate profits to be cut to 18%[/B] - I'm sorry but companies don't need a cut on taxes, and this is from someone with a parent who's self-employed.[/QUOTE]
wage - The minimum wage for 21+ is currently £6.50 and has very steadily gone up. a 50% increase for 25+ in 5 years isnt anything to scoff at
cuts - arent the cuts mainly to job related welfare? i highly doubt they'd cut benefits to people that rely on them to live e.g. disabled people.
corp tax - i think the point is the corp tax reduction offsets the fact that they are going to have to be paying out more to people, otherwise i guess you run the risk of corporations laying off staff to make up for the sudden dip out of paying people more. meaning you just end up with less jobs and less people who earn more.
[QUOTE=Cushie;48149388]wage - The minimum wage for 21+ is currently £6.50 and has very steadily gone up. a 50% increase for 25+ in 5 years isnt anything to scoff at
cuts - arent the cuts mainly to job related welfare? i highly doubt they'd cut benefits to people that rely on them to live e.g. disabled people.
corp tax - i think the point is the corp tax reduction offsets the fact that they are going to have to be paying out more to people, otherwise i guess you run the risk of corporations laying off staff to make up for the sudden dip out of paying people more. meaning you just end up with less jobs and less people who earn more.[/QUOTE]
They changed the ESA work related group to match what you get from JSA, which is about £30 less a week (£103 down to £73) if you're over 25 and for those under 25 it will drop £46 a week (£103 to £57).
well this sucks
[QUOTE=Handsome Matt;48148537]VAT brings in roughly 20% of the UK budget currently - what will you cut to spending or which other tax will you raise to cover the 10% of the budget lost?[/QUOTE]
Foreign aid and EU contributions, corporate tax at 20%. Revenue from VAT is 14% I believe.
[QUOTE=Bobie;48149010]george osborne, the failed journalist and shelf stacker. economist? no, but why would the tories ever think economically anyway. this is an opportunity to punish the poor and disabled for not voting tory.[/QUOTE]
That's an incredible conspiracy. You don't punish people for not voting for you, you try to win them over to increase your vote share.
that maintenance grant is basically the only reason I can afford to go to university
Good thing I'm just about to go into my last year of uni
It's almost like they want people to leave the country. It's depressing to think that even if the minimum wage is raised to £9 right now you still wouldn't even be able to rent your own place after tax (let alone pay bills, food, living etc)
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