• Japan: Abe calls snap election
    59 replies, posted
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-41385735[/url] [quote]Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has called an election a year early, and will dissolve parliament on Thursday. He also announced a 2tn yen ($1.78bn, £13.2bn) stimulus package on education, debt reduction and social spending. Mr Abe's announcement comes as his approval ratings have rebounded from a record low over the summer and with the opposition largely in disarray. [/quote]
Shock, another stimulus package. I bet that will work better than the twenty odd packages since the Lost Decade :rolleyes: Why do the Japanese keep electing these useless idiots? Isn't it obvious they've completely failed over nearly three decades to fix their nation's economic woes?
[QUOTE=download;52715426]Shock, another stimulus package. I bet that will work better than the twenty odd packages since the Lost Decade :rolleyes: Why do the Japanese keep electing these useless idiots? Isn't it obvious they've completely failed over nearly three decades to fix their nation's economic woes?[/QUOTE] abenomics has gotten some things moving but they really really need to open up to immigration
[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;52715484]explain?[/QUOTE] Birth rate decline and population getting older is a problem that Japan is experiencing more than most other countries. (Maybe even every other country) Immigration is good.
[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;52715484]explain?[/QUOTE] Way I understand it, if you have a country with a very high standard of education, you're not going to have anyone that wants to do the menial jobs like construction and cashiers on the cheap. I could be wrong though. Also aging population and low birth rates, as stated above.
[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;52715484]explain?[/QUOTE] Japan's workforce (people aged 15 to 64) is shrinking by half a million people every year. Eventually there's not going to be anyone left to work and pay taxes at the current rate.
[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;52715484]explain?[/QUOTE] Low birth rates and aging society. But maybe before opening up to immigration, or even at the same time as opening up to immigration, they should get to fixing things that are deterring people from having kids or even getting married in the first place, deteriorating work environments probably being one of the biggest, if not the biggest, factor. With all the old pests, or "Rogai" as they have been called, running governments and big companies though, that will probably not change for a while, both fixing the problems I am talking about and allowing immigrants in. Oh, and I do not think it helps that our education system is severely outdated and overly uniform, where even the teachers bully, or at least ignore bullying of, anybody even close to "different". Nobody wants their children to go through that.
[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;52715484]explain?[/QUOTE] With it's current birthrate and population demographics, the country is going to collapse within a decade or two because of the immense amount of old people currently in the system. It's gotten so bad that it's now too late for them to raise birthrates to solve the issue. If they all started having kids now, it would be 18 years before they're workers and taxpayers. By then, it would be far too late. Immigration is the only way now. Since the Japanese don't seem like they're going to allow any migrants come in anytime soon, most economists are hoping the country slowly withers out instead of crashing, burning and taking a good sector of the international economy out with it. [editline]25th September 2017[/editline] As it currently stands, with Abe's policies, the country is going to slide into a 3rd world country status in our lifetime.
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;52715526] Since the Japanese don't seem like they're going to allow any migrants come in anytime soon, most economists are hoping the country slowly withers out instead of crashing, burning and taking a good sector of the international economy out with it. [editline]25th September 2017[/editline] As it currently stands, with Abe's policies, the country is going to slide into a 3rd world country status in our lifetime.[/QUOTE] With 240% debt I'd be doubtful
That's why I said 'hoping.' And the international community's only option is to brace for impact, because no amount of help is going to save them from their fate if they don't allow a significant amount of migrants in, and the longer they wait the more they're going to need.
[QUOTE=Sableye;52715473]abenomics has gotten some things moving but they really really need to open up to immigration[/QUOTE] immigration won't fix japans problems at all, and it might even worsen them (given how wages are going down, living standards are in decline, and infrastructure slowly rots - especially in the countryside) even if you had a hundred thousand people move in each year, the population is still in decline and you're still not tackling the root of the economic troubles or the fact most of the countryside is becoming severely depopulated and many towns and villages are being abandoned the problems in japan are not something that can be fixed with immigration, or even something that immigration can be used as a crutch for while japan figures out what to do (japan has been using these stopgap measures for decades, they didn't work then and they won't work now)
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52715587]immigration won't fix japans problems at all, and it might even worsen them (given how wages are going down, living standards are in decline, and infrastructure slowly rots - especially in the countryside) even if you had a hundred thousand people move in each year, the population is still in decline and you're still not tackling the root of the economic troubles or the fact most of the countryside is becoming severely depopulated and many towns and villages are being abandoned the problems in japan are not something that can be fixed with immigration, or even something that immigration can be used as a crutch for while japan figures out what to do (japan has been using these stopgap measures for decades, they didn't work then and they won't work now)[/QUOTE] Top economists all think that immigration is the only real solution to their problem. What do you mean many places are being depopulated is being the issue? [i]That's a symptom[/i] of the problem. Their population graph is an upside triangle and they're quickly getting in a position of unsustainability with imminent collapse looming over the horizon - [i]they simply don't have enough tax payers[/i]. I know you hate immigrants Sobotnik, but how do you suggest to fix the taxpayer problem? Create them out of thin air? Please.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52715587]immigration won't fix japans problems at all, and it might even worsen them (given how wages are going down, living standards are in decline, and infrastructure slowly rots - especially in the countryside) even if you had a hundred thousand people move in each year, the population is still in decline and you're still not tackling the root of the economic troubles or the fact most of the countryside is becoming severely depopulated and many towns and villages are being abandoned the problems in japan are not something that can be fixed with immigration, or even something that immigration can be used as a crutch for while japan figures out what to do (japan has been using these stopgap measures for decades, they didn't work then and they won't work now)[/QUOTE] Pretty much all of Japan's "fiscal stimulus" has been in infrastructure. Their infrastructure isn't crumbling.
They spend billions every single year improving infrastructure trying to drag the economy into a boom, but it just isn't happening. Their population can't support it and even if they could, they also see the writing on the wall. Bad times are coming and the Japanese people are conditioned into preparing for economic downturn, which is why they save so much.
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;52715608]Top economists all think that immigration is the only real solution to their problem. What do you mean many places are being depopulated is being the issue? [i]That's a symptom[/i] of the problem. Their population graph is an upside triangle and they're quickly getting in a position of unsustainability with imminent collapse looming over the horizon - [i]they simply don't have enough tax payers[/i]. I know you hate immigrants Sobotnik, but how do you suggest to fix the taxpayer problem? Create them out of thin air? Please.[/QUOTE] I don't recall mentioning that I hated immigrants, but the point is that even with hundreds of thousands of them they're still not fixing the problem at all and at best it's just a means of delaying the problem to later (when it will be bigger and harder to fix) [QUOTE=download;52715610]Pretty much all of Japan's "fiscal stimulus" has been in infrastructure. Their infrastructure isn't crumbling.[/QUOTE] spending money on infrastructure doesn't necessarily mean you'll have decent infrastructure. not all of japan is as well-off and well-presented as Tokyo is
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52715616]I don't recall mentioning that I hated immigrants, but the point is that even with hundreds of thousands of them they're still not fixing the problem at all and at best it's just a means of delaying the problem to later (when it will be bigger and harder to fix)[/QUOTE] Sooo the alternative that doesn't involve immigration is..?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52715616]I don't recall mentioning that I hated immigrants, but the point is that even with hundreds of thousands of them they're still not fixing the problem at all and at best it's just a means of delaying the problem to later (when it will be bigger and harder to fix) spending money on infrastructure doesn't necessarily mean you'll have decent infrastructure. not all of japan is as well-off and well-presented as Tokyo is[/QUOTE] I mean are you against immigration or for it? Because delaying the problem is a good thing when the problem is extinction. It's like getting diagnosed with cancer and turning down the chemo because it might not work. What are you gunna do about it, just die?
[QUOTE=download;52715559]With 240% debt I'd be doubtful[/QUOTE] "This will be the point at which Japan's public debt causes them to explode" - says increasingly nervous economist for the seventh time
[QUOTE=Goberfish;52715749]"This will be the point at which Japan's public debt causes them to explode" - says increasingly nervous economist for the seventh time[/QUOTE] I think you'll find most mainstream economists believe Japan's debt problem is manageable while Japan can pay the interest. If the Japanese population collapses they won't be able to bring in enough government revenue to pay it, same goes if the economy collapses.
Japan is that political shithole that noone really talks about. Much like Belarus.
[QUOTE=download;52715756]I think you'll find most mainstream economists believe Japan's debt problem is manageable while Japan can pay the interest. If the Japanese population collapses they won't be able to bring in enough government revenue to pay it, same goes if the economy collapses.[/QUOTE] Japan can always pay the interest if it wants to, that's not really the problem it's facing
[QUOTE=Mifil;52715765]Japan is that political shithole that noone really talks about. Much like Belarus.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't really compare Japan to Belarus...
[QUOTE=download;52715426]Shock, another stimulus package. I bet that will work better than the twenty odd packages since the Lost Decade :rolleyes: Why do the Japanese keep electing these useless idiots? Isn't it obvious they've completely failed over nearly three decades to fix their nation's economic woes?[/QUOTE] Low unemployment, low inflation and stable growth in real wages does make me wonder what economic woes you are referring to
[QUOTE=Gorgus;52715841]I wouldn't really compare Japan to Belarus...[/QUOTE] Well they're not on the same level, that's for sure. My point is that their common thing is that their political spectrums are not discussed.
[QUOTE=MedicWine;52715737]I mean are you against immigration or for it? Because delaying the problem is a good thing when the problem is extinction. It's like getting diagnosed with cancer and turning down the chemo because it might not work. What are you gunna do about it, just die?[/QUOTE] delaying the problem isn't good because japan has been doing that for thirty years [b]already[/b] and in that time the problem has worsened. it's a red herring [QUOTE=MrJazzy;52715720]Sooo the alternative that doesn't involve immigration is..?[/QUOTE] finding a way to sustainably manage the degrowth of the economy (it's inevitably going to shrink, don't try to stop it by importing people) , debt reduction, moving people out of the cities and into the countryside/smaller towns, rebuilding local communities, etc
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52715850]delaying the problem isn't good because japan has been doing that for thirty years [b]already[/b] and in that time the problem has worsened. it's a red herring finding a way to sustainably manage the degrowth of the economy (it's inevitably going to shrink, don't try to stop it by importing people) , debt reduction, moving people out of the cities and into the countryside/smaller towns, rebuilding local communities, etc[/QUOTE] hahahahahaha Look, look hard, and you will see the 30 years of doing everything but fix our immigration draws has done absolutely NOTHING. The token efforts you see are LDP Self-congratulation to do what you are saying: say that immigration is not working red herring, make half attempt on your other solutions, then fygm. Go ahead please, lay some plan of how to execute a combination of your alternate solution than immigration draws, then I can say just how badly it has already worked. We've tried, and too many too proud to consider the simplest option with even a brick to fall on our face. You people remember 2012 no?
[QUOTE=Goberfish;52715842]Low unemployment, low inflation and stable growth in real wages does make me wonder what economic woes you are referring to[/QUOTE] Japan's record low unemployment rate is evidence that the Japanese population is aging and they don't have enough people to fill jobs. Japan's growth is also not "stable", it's completely stagnant and lags greatly behind pretty much every other first world nation.
[QUOTE=download;52715909]Japan's record low unemployment rate is evidence that the Japanese population is aging and they don't have enough people to fill jobs. Japan's growth is also not "stable", it's completely stagnant and lags greatly behind pretty much every other first world nation.[/QUOTE] the HR Pipeline is also range from ok, to Bad, to Hitachi, which make these issue even worse.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52715850]delaying the problem isn't good because japan has been doing that for thirty years [b]already[/b] and in that time the problem has worsened. it's a red herring finding a way to sustainably manage the degrowth of the economy (it's inevitably going to shrink, don't try to stop it by importing people) , debt reduction, moving people out of the cities and into the countryside/smaller towns, rebuilding local communities, etc[/QUOTE] I mean YOMI would have to back me up on this, but isn't like.. a known thing that Japan is very difficult to emigrate to?
[QUOTE=MedicWine;52715951]I mean YOMI would have to back me up on this, but isn't like.. a known thing that Japan is very difficult to emigrate to?[/QUOTE] YMMV, but the three people I've known who've emigrated said it was an absolute bitch
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