• NASA wants to take a mission to the atmosphere of Venus- with airships and a "cloud city"
    62 replies, posted
[URL="http://sacd.larc.nasa.gov/branches/space-mission-analysis-branch-smab/smab-projects/havoc/"]http://sacd.larc.nasa.gov/branches/space-mission-analysis-branch-smab/smab-projects/havoc/[/URL] [QUOTE]The atmosphere of Venus is an exciting destination for both further scientific study and future human exploration. A lighter-than-air vehicle can carry either a host of instruments and probes, or a habitat and ascent vehicle for a crew of two astronauts to explore Venus for up to a month. The mission requires less time to complete than a crewed Mars mission, and the environment at 50 km is relatively benign, with similar pressure, density, gravity, and radiation protection to the surface of Earth[/QUOTE] Called the HAVOC project, NASA essentially wants to try some short term habitation in the upper atmosphere of venus using a bunch of airships and maybe a tethered floating city. It would be relatively short term, probably lasting no longer than a year. [video=youtube;0az7DEwG68A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0az7DEwG68A[/video] pls don't let this be late i checked everywhere [editline]20th December 2014[/editline] I should have made the title something more akin to the fact that this is a concept being explored by the NASA Langley division and doesn't guarantee it will be done. whoops
How the fuck would they get home?
[QUOTE=Bradyns;46760057]How the fuck would they get home?[/QUOTE]Who said they'd return home? Virtually all plans for getting to Mars in the foreseeable future include permanent residency. It'd take people who are willing to basically give up the rest of their lives for such an endeavor.
[QUOTE=Bradyns;46760057]How the fuck would they get home?[/QUOTE] if you watch the video near the 1:50 mark, you see that the airships carry an underslung escape rocket. I imagine escape wouldn't be that difficult, since you are in the upper atmosphere removing a significant portion of the required work [editline]edit[/editline] this guy you goofs just watch the video and bask in its government funded cgi [del]glory[/del] cheesiness [t]http://i.imgur.com/F1g2BWG.png[/t]
Cloud city you say? [t]http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121118205219/starwars/images/f/f1/Cloud_City.png[/t] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("these posts don't contribute to the thread" - Orkel))[/highlight]
Bioshock Infinite Joke. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("these posts don't contribute to the thread" - Orkel))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Adarrek;46760074]Cloud city you say? [img]http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121118205219/starwars/images/f/f1/Cloud_City.png[/img][/QUOTE] Whenever someone embeds an image from wikia it always glitches out and just shows a really tiny thumbnail, is it broken for anyone else too or just me?
Whoever ends up running this if it ever even happens better be called Lando Calrissian
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;46760069]Who said they'd return home? Virtually all plans for getting to Mars in the foreseeable future include permanent residency. It'd take people who are willing to basically give up the rest of their lives for such an endeavor.[/QUOTE] If you read the article it said that they would only be keeping the city there for a maximum of a year.
[QUOTE=Ardosos;46760109]Whenever someone embeds an image from wikia it always glitches out and just shows a really tiny thumbnail, is it broken for anyone else too or just me?[/QUOTE] Sorry i think it's fixed now.
[QUOTE=Adarrek;46760074]Cloud city you say? [t]http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121118205219/starwars/images/f/f1/Cloud_City.png[/t][/QUOTE] A could city for ants?
Airships? Floating cities? [t]http://i.imgur.com/sM9CtIB.jpg[/t] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("these posts don't contribute to the thread" - Orkel))[/highlight]
*snip* was fixed
[QUOTE=Bradyns;46760057]How the fuck would they get home?[/QUOTE] Just put them on a giant space sling and give them a fire extinguisher to adjust their trajectory so they can be thrown at the ISS. Use a giant space mattress to absorb the hit when they get to the ISS.
Can we just go to mars first?
doesn't a venus trip require a lot less delta v than a mars trip, but venus is just a big ball of toxic so we don't really want to go there anyway?
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;46760286]doesn't a venus trip require a lot less delta v than a mars trip, but venus is just a big ball of toxic so we don't really want to go there anyway?[/QUOTE] It's easier to go there, but harder to launch out of; Venus has a lot of heavy metals and precious metals needed for advanced inter-solar travel just sitting in pools on the surface
Isn't the atmosphere of venus so corrosive that they can't even get robots to last there longer than an hour?
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;46760286]doesn't a venus trip require a lot less delta v than a mars trip, but venus is just a big ball of toxic so we don't really want to go there anyway?[/QUOTE] At ground level, Venus is literally worse than hell. Hot enough to melt lead, crushing pressure, sulfuric acid rain, it's pretty shitty. The only good thing about it is that it's about Earth gravity. Up high, though, it's actually not that bad. At 50km above the surface, it's about Earth pressure, and the temperatures, though unstable, are Earth-like (0C-50C). The air isn't breathable, due to the lack of oxygen and (I believe) the sulfuric acid in the clouds, but that just means you need something like a scuba system, not a full-blown spacesuit or whatever would be needed to survive on the surface. It even turns out that an Earth atmosphere is a lifting gas there, so you don't need helium balloons, just balloons of air. And yes, it has a lower dV requirement, so we can get larger payloads there for the same cost.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;46760330]Isn't the atmosphere of venus so corrosive that they can't even get robots to last there longer than an hour?[/QUOTE] On the ground, yes. Venus is interesting because the atmosphere is so dense that it separates out into different layers of chemicals. Additionally, the upper atmosphere contains the materials for water and breathable air in high amounts. It makes a lot of sense to send a manned mission there for advanced geological and atmospheric study.
I'm imagining an airship city with little helicopters or something to get to and from the surface. Sounds like fun.
[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;46760323]Quantum particles, suspended at a fixed point in space-time.[/QUOTE] Oh come on, it was the first idea I had. Honestly if we could have a permanent settlement that's a floating city with Airships, I'd totally live there.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;46760069] [B]Virtually all plans for getting to Mars in the foreseeable future include permanent residency[/B].[/QUOTE] Pretty sure that's not true. The ones I've heard about is Mars One which more or less is considered to be a fraud by a lot of people, and a modified version of Zubrin's Mars Direct.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;46760397]Pretty sure that's not true. The ones I've heard about is Mars One which more or less is considered to be a fraud by a lot of people, and a modified version of Zubrin's Mars Direct.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I'm sure any sensible space program would first figure out a way to send folks home. I mean if there's an outbreak on the colony, they need to be sent on the first rocket home, less it spread. It would seem ungodly to just send folks out there for the rest of their lives, away from everything on Earth, both the good and the bad.
[QUOTE=gman003-main;46760335]At ground level, Venus is literally worse than hell. Hot enough to melt lead, crushing pressure, sulfuric acid rain, it's pretty shitty. The only good thing about it is that it's about Earth gravity.[/QUOTE] Yeah the Venusian surface is pretty shitty. Not only is it the high pressure, searing heat and acid rain, but due to the fact that it barely even has a magnetic field AND it has real shitty rotation to the point where the DAYS on Venus are longer than the years. Even if we could technically fix the acid rain with an exorbitant dispersion of alkaline substances across the entire planet (the Belt would supply, but it'd be damned expensive), possibly fixing the pressure problem in the process, Venus would still be baked on one side and frozen on the other, and it would take thousands of years for us to develop the kind of technology required to get the planet spinning properly for far shorter days. Also, any life on that cooler Venus would need to always be mobile, even the plant-life, always staying in that ever-moving safe-zone between the searing day and the freezing night.
Maybe we should try for Venus first, see if we can get some materials from there, then shoot for Mars with our obtained resources.
[QUOTE=Disgruntled;46760545]Maybe we should try for Venus first, see if we can get some materials from there, then shoot for Mars with our obtained resources.[/QUOTE] Well considering the hellish machine-rotting conditions on Venus, I'd say that we'd be better off colonizing Mars BEFORE we try to make Venus less hellish. It might be quicker to travel to Venus, but you'll have a much better time trying to land on Mars. Much less screaming and fewer melting faces.
Venus is only a possibility for mining since it is incredibly easy to gather rare earth metals from it. Mars does not have the luxury of said metals, even though it is easier to move around due to the gravity and non flammable gasses. The floating fortress idea works because basic Hydrogen will float easily on venus due to it's highly dense atmosphere; but the return on investment until we can effectively mine those resources is basically nill.
I would imagine mining operations to be rather simple too, instead of dropping personnel down to the surface you simply need to drop down the drill/pump (If molten) and pipe it back up to the outpost. Much less risky.
Photo of the future administrator of said city: [IMG]http://a.abcnews.go.com/images/Entertainment/HT_billy_dee_williams_jef_140303_16x9_608.jpg[/IMG]
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