Oil may begin flowing through the Dakota Access Pipeline as soon as next week - Polidicks

[quote]A federal judge declined Tuesday to temporarily stop construction of the final section of the disputed Dakota Access pipeline, clearing the way for oil to flow as soon as next week. The Standing Rock and Cheyenne River Sioux had asked the US district judge James Boasberg in Washington to direct the Army Corps of Engineers to withdraw permission for the Texas-based developer Energy Transfer Partners to lay pipe under Lake Oahe in North Dakota. The stretch under the Missouri river reservoir in southern North Dakota is the last piece of construction for the $3.8bn pipeline to move North Dakota oil to Illinois. The tribes argued that construction under the lake violated their right to practice their religion, which relies on clean water, and they wanted the work suspended until the claim could be resolved. When they filed the lawsuit last summer, the tribes argued that the pipeline threatened Native American cultural sites and their water supply. Their religion argument was new, however, and disputed by both the corps and the company. Boasberg in his ruling Tuesday said the tribes hadn’t raised the religion argument in a timely fashion.[/quote] [url]https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/07/dakota-access-pipeline-court-battle-standing-rock-oil[/url]

As horrible as it would be, I'm curious what the public and official reactions would be if it popped open like a blister as soon as it hit operating pressure. I'm sure that the local politicians will immediately blame eco-terrorists or the protestors and will do anything to cover up that it was a construction fault or bad design, if such an event ever happens. We saw a nearby pipeline that did break open and spill shitloads of oil into the river initially be blamed on protestor sabotage, only for news to break that it was from a landslide or something and was promptly forgotten about(iirc). The vast majority (+90%) of news media outlets are owned by 5-6 companies, so it isn't that hard to shift blame or bury something, just takes a few briefcases full of green paper to make it happen.

The day the protestors got a boot in the ass, was a pretty good day. It was like watching the entire community having a weight lifted off it's shoulders.

This feels like a disaster waiting to happen

[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;51930047]This feels like a disaster waiting to happen[/QUOTE] I wouldn't be surprised if the pipeline breaks within a few years and dumps oil everywhere. Hopefully it won't be sabotaged to have that happen.

[QUOTE=Potus;51930090]I wouldn't be surprised if the pipeline breaks within a few years and dumps oil everywhere. Hopefully it won't be sabotaged to have that happen.[/QUOTE] Based on the track record of recent pipelines it will have a major leak within a month of operational start

this seems entirely rushed almost like theyre compromising safety for a political statement... i still dont think this sets a good prescident for the future, what with the increadibly scummy tactics they used such as using several of thousand short distance pipeline permits to sidestep a full pipeline review process. also the right framing this as a war against liberal hippy enviromentalism like theyre already at it again doing this in louisiana through protected swamps but suddenly its in deeply conservative territory and people there are suddenly worried about it even as they jeered the dakota protestors

[QUOTE=Sableye;51930395]this seems entirely rushed almost like theyre compromising safety for a political statement... i still dont think this sets a good prescident for the future, what with the increadibly scummy tactics they used such as using several of thousand short distance pipeline permits to sidestep a full pipeline review process. also the right framing this as a war against liberal hippy enviromentalism like theyre already at it again doing this in louisiana through protected swamps but suddenly its in deeply conservative territory and people there are suddenly worried about it even as they jeered the dakota protestors[/QUOTE] The conservatives in Louisiana don't necessarily have a problem with the pipeline itself. It's the spoil banks they don't flatten out after which change the water flow through the swamp that people have a problem with. And believe it or not, there are a bunch of people in Louisiana who are just as liberal as people in California.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;51929928]The day the protestors got a boot in the ass, was a pretty good day. It was like watching the entire community having a weight lifted off it's shoulders.[/QUOTE] I sure do love it when people who disagree with me get kicked in the ass!

[QUOTE=Lord of Boxes;51930452]I sure do love it when people who disagree with me get kicked in the ass![/QUOTE] More like people who have been damaging infrastructure, rioting, polluting, and stealing from locals.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51930521]More like people who have been damaging infrastructure, rioting, polluting, and stealing from locals.[/QUOTE] too bad that the pipeline is going to end up damaging infrastructure, causing rioting, polluting, and siphoning off money from the locals. want to stop all that? there's an obvious solution

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51930595]too bad that the pipeline is going to end up damaging infrastructure, causing rioting, polluting, and siphoning off money from the locals. want to stop all that? there's an obvious solution[/QUOTE] Yea it's going to cause all of these issues that don't exist at all despite there already being thousands of miles of pipeline in North Dakota alone......... I do like how we can do mental gymnastics to blame rioting on the pipeline though. "It's the pipelines fault we damaged our own infrastructure and polluted our own land with trash!"

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51930615]Yea it's going to cause all of these issues that don't exist at all despite there already being thousands of miles of pipeline in North Dakota alone......... I do like how we can do mental gymnastics to blame rioting on the pipeline though. "It's the pipelines fault we damaged our own infrastructure and polluted our own land with trash!"[/QUOTE] well it's already causing those issues now especially the polluting I don't get what possible advantage there is to building yet more oil pipelines when they are no longer necessary and cause more trouble than they're worth

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;51929928]The day the protestors got a boot in the ass, was a pretty good day. It was like watching the entire community having a weight lifted off it's shoulders.[/QUOTE] All the while attaching a heavier weight onto another community.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51930619]well it's already causing those issues now especially the polluting [/quote] No? I live in Bismarck and I work all over the state. Not a whole lot of rioting going on, and a lot of people in the NW Bakkens are back at work drilling new oil wells. So I'm not sure what you're getting at. And an empty pipeline is causing pollution? I just want to be clear here, the protesters were the ones that polluted their campsite. There were literal tons of garbage and feces left behind when they evacuated. [QUOTE=Sobotnik;51930619] I don't get what possible advantage there is to building yet more oil pipelines when they are no longer necessary and cause more trouble than they're worth[/QUOTE] Whats easier and cheaper Well->truck->-Train->refinery or Pipeline->refinery

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51930632]No? I live in Bismarck and I work all over the state. Not a whole lot of rioting going on, and a lot of people in the NW Bakkens are back at work drilling new oil wells. So I'm not sure what you're getting at.[/quote] well its already caused rioting around this pipeline for sure [quote]And an empty pipeline is causing pollution? I just want to be clear here, the protesters were the ones that polluted their campsite. There were literal tons of garbage and feces left behind when they evacuated.[/quote] well then you shouldn't have built it then, then you wouldn't have had this issue [quote]Whats easier and cheaper Well->truck->-Train->refinery or Pipeline->refinery[/QUOTE] phasing out oil

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51930619]well it's already causing those issues now especially the polluting I don't get what possible advantage there is to building yet more oil pipelines when they are no longer necessary and cause more trouble than they're worth[/QUOTE] With declining oil prices this pipeline actually ceased to be worth it financially long ago But the builders were already balls-deep so they couldn't really just stop it either which I find kinda funny edit: source [url]http://www.cnbc.com/2014/11/13/economics-no-longer-makes-keystone-pipeline-viable.html?utm_content=buffer4e592&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer[/url] btw that was written when prices were 76 per barrel. they're just below 55 per barrel now

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51930635]well its already caused rioting around this pipeline for sure well then you shouldn't have built it then, then you wouldn't have had this issue[/quote] Heres the mental gymnastics again. Seriously, what flips and loops are you doing to blame the pipeline for people rioting and damaging their own infrastructure? Rioting isn't the only option to get your point across, and honestly it shouldnt be an option to begin with. [QUOTE=Sobotnik;51930635] phasing out oil[/QUOTE] Oh yea we're totally phasing out oil right now with, blessed be his name, God Emperor Trump in office.

[QUOTE=Lord of Boxes;51930452]I sure do love it when people who disagree with me get kicked in the ass![/QUOTE] In the means that they were evicted and some got arrested for refusing to follow through with the eviction order sent-out by the SRT.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51930635] phasing out oil[/QUOTE] Phasing out oil isn't cheap sobotnik. Our world basically depends on oil, and for a whole lot more than just transportation. Even if we have 100% EV coverage we will still depend on oil. Phasing out oil is going to be an absurdly expensive task. A hell of a lot more expensive than a single fucking pipeline.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51930648]Heres the mental gymnastics again. Seriously, what flips and loops are you doing to blame the pipeline for people rioting and damaging their own infrastructure? Rioting isn't the only option to get your point across, and honestly it shouldnt be an option to begin with.[/quote] rioting has changed plenty of things a hundred years ago (today!) a bunch of women in russia rioted and broke into some bread shops, an action that eventually led to the collapse of the russian empire if people riot at each new pipeline site and cause a great deal of ruckus and damage that'll send a very strong message that 1: pipelines aren't wanted and 2: if you try to build it you're going to lose out on it [quote]Oh yea we're totally phasing out oil right now with, blessed be his name, God Emperor Trump in office.[/QUOTE] phasing out oil isn't a 100% thing. simply reducing the construction of new pipelines and wells is quite achievable in our lifetimes [QUOTE=geel9;51931450]Phasing out oil isn't cheap sobotnik. Our world basically depends on oil, and for a whole lot more than just transportation. Even if we have 100% EV coverage we will still depend on oil. Phasing out oil is going to be an absurdly expensive task. A hell of a lot more expensive than a single fucking pipeline.[/QUOTE] again, phasing out oil isn't a 100% thing to do overnight what's wrong exactly with banning the construction of new pipelines? it's not like we need anymore since oil prices have been the lowest they have been in years and our dependence on oil is the least it has been in decades (and continues to shrink)

[QUOTE=geel9;51931450]Phasing out oil isn't cheap sobotnik. Our world basically depends on oil, and for a whole lot more than just transportation. Even if we have 100% EV coverage we will still depend on oil. Phasing out oil is going to be an absurdly expensive task. A hell of a lot more expensive than a single fucking pipeline.[/QUOTE] But it's a process that should start, not progress in the opposite direction

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51931698]rioting has changed plenty of things a hundred years ago (today!) a bunch of women in russia rioted and broke into some bread shops, an action that eventually led to the collapse of the russian empire if people riot at each new pipeline site and cause a great deal of ruckus and damage that'll send a very strong message that 1: pipelines aren't wanted and 2: if you try to build it you're going to lose out on it phasing out oil isn't a 100% thing. simply reducing the construction of new pipelines and wells is quite achievable in our lifetimes again, phasing out oil isn't a 100% thing to do overnight what's wrong exactly with banning the construction of new pipelines? it's not like we need anymore since oil prices have been the lowest they have been in years and our dependence on oil is the least it has been in decades (and continues to shrink)[/QUOTE] Ah yea, the rise of the Soviet Union, what a great example for the benefits of rioting. I honestly cant believe you would condone attacking people and destroying property just to get your way. I whole heartedly disagree with you there. Violent attacks send the message that people are going to get violent over an issue, and not a whole lot else. It also justifies armed security and attack dogs like you saw at the DAPL protest, and after that any chance of meaningful gains is gone for the non-radicals. Its like every modern protest; any message you have is lost the second the first stone is tossed. On the oil, youre not wrong. But would you rather us be buying oil from the wonderfully tyrannical countries in the middle east, or buy it from the US and Canada? Or is it a matter of the Saudis potentially ruining their land, or us potentially ruining ours? [editline]8th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=SIRIUS;51931718]But it's a process that should start, not progress in the opposite direction[/QUOTE] It has started. Renewable energy markets are booming and EVs are becoming affordable and popular. The only way to beat oil is to out compete it, and youll never do that, but you can get it to the point to where any damage it does is marginal.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51931757]Ah yea, the rise of the Soviet Union, what a great example for the benefits of rioting. I honestly cant believe you would condone attacking people and destroying property just to get your way. I whole heartedly disagree with you there. [/QUOTE] Okay, so how about the american revolution? Or, fuck, you so starkly claim that as soon as a stone is tossed a message is lost. I remember with great sadness how the civil rights movement died due to the plethora of race riots. Or do we moral absolutism now

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51931757]Ah yea, the rise of the Soviet Union, what a great example for the benefits of rioting. [/quote] the february revolution has nothing to do with the rise of the soviet union [quote]I honestly cant believe you would condone attacking people and destroying property just to get your way. I whole heartedly disagree with you there. Violent attacks send the message that people are going to get violent over an issue, and not a whole lot else. It also justifies armed security and attack dogs like you saw at the DAPL protest, and after that any chance of meaningful gains is gone for the non-radicals. Its like every modern protest; any message you have is lost the second the first stone is tossed.[/quote] the united states gained its independence pretty much using the methods you described what makes them wrong when they have real results? [quote]On the oil, youre not wrong. But would you rather us be buying oil from the wonderfully tyrannical countries in the middle east, or buy it from the US and Canada? Or is it a matter of the Saudis potentially ruining their land, or us potentially ruining ours?[/QUOTE] why does that matter when US oil production is already at the highest it's been in decades? what the fuck do you need more for?

Hell, even in North Dakota where this pipeline is, we have hundreds of windmills all over the state and a couple dozen more were built last year. Change doesnt happen over night.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51931698]rioting has changed plenty of things a hundred years ago (today!) a bunch of women in russia rioted and broke into some bread shops, an action that eventually led to the collapse of the russian empire if people riot at each new pipeline site and cause a great deal of ruckus and damage that'll send a very strong message that 1: pipelines aren't wanted and 2: if you try to build it you're going to lose out on it phasing out oil isn't a 100% thing. simply reducing the construction of new pipelines and wells is quite achievable in our lifetimes again, phasing out oil isn't a 100% thing to do overnight what's wrong exactly with banning the construction of new pipelines? it's not like we need anymore since oil prices have been the lowest they have been in years and our dependence on oil is the least it has been in decades (and continues to shrink)[/QUOTE] You're looking at aggregate data (the total demand for oil) and applying it to a local area. While it may be true that the total demand for oil is going down, that does not mean that the requirements for shipping oil cannot increase. We need to keep finding new sources of oil to meet our current demands. You can't just limitlessly collect oil from the same spot (that's kind of part of the problem with depending on oil). Because of this, you'll need to keep reinvesting in the ability to transport oil between different locations, or increase your throughput if you're producing more oil from a single spot than you were before.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51931777]Okay, so how about the american revolution? Or, fuck, you so starkly claim that as soon as a stone is tossed a message is lost. I remember with great sadness how the civil rights movement died due to the plethora of race riots. Or do we moral absolutism now[/QUOTE] Tell me how civil rights and revolutions are akin to protesting pipelines?

[QUOTE=geel9;51931784]You're looking at aggregate data (the total demand for oil) and applying it to a local area. While it may be true that the total demand for oil is going down, that does not mean that the requirements for shipping oil cannot increase. We need to keep finding new sources of oil to meet our current demands. You can't just limitlessly collect oil from the same spot (that's kind of part of the problem with depending on oil). Because of this, you'll need to keep reinvesting in the ability to transport oil between different locations, or increase your throughput if you're producing more oil from a single spot than you were before.[/QUOTE] so why are a lot of wells currently shut down if we need more? why isn't this pipeline projected to make a profit?

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51931792]Tell me how civil rights and revolutions are akin to protesting pipelines?[/QUOTE] sure [quote]I honestly cant believe you would condone attacking people and destroying property just to get your way. I whole heartedly disagree with you there.[/quote] [quote]any message you have is lost the second the first stone is tossed.[/quote]