• Sea rise threatens Florida coast, but no statewide plan
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[url]http://bigstory.ap.org/article/7c4ffc9cf6e1452180cc0491c969fdc6/sea-rise-threatens-florida-coast-no-statewide-plan[/url] [IMG]http://binaryapi.ap.org/59156c33ebb043f580f5576cda8f6919/460x.jpg[/IMG] [QUOTE]ST. AUGUSTINE, Fla. (AP) — America's oldest city is slowly drowning. St. Augustine's centuries-old Spanish fortress and other national landmarks sit feet from the encroaching Atlantic, whose waters already flood the city's narrow, brick-paved streets about 10 times a year — a problem worsening as sea levels rise. The city has long relied on tourism, but visitors to the fortress and Ponce de Leon's mythical Fountain of Youth might someday have to wear waders at high tide. "If you want to benefit from the fact we've been here for 450 years, you have the responsibility to look forward to the next 450," said Bill Hamilton, a 63-year-old horticulturist whose family has lived in the city since the 1950s. "Is St. Augustine even going to be here? We owe it to the people coming after us to leave the city in good shape." St. Augustine is one of many chronically flooded communities along Florida's 1,200-mile coastline, and officials in these diverse places share a common concern: They're afraid their buildings and economies will be further inundated by rising seas in just a couple of decades. The effects are a daily reality in much of Florida. Drinking water wells are fouled by seawater. Higher tides and storm surges make for more frequent road flooding from Jacksonville to Key West, and they're overburdening aging flood-control systems. But the state has yet to offer a clear plan or coordination to address what local officials across Florida's coast see as a slow-moving emergency. Republican Gov. Rick Scott is skeptical of man-made climate change and has put aside the task of preparing for sea level rise, an Associated Press review of thousands of emails and documents pertaining to the state's preparations for rising seas found. Despite warnings from water experts and climate scientists about risks to cities and drinking water, skepticism over sea level projections and climate change science has hampered planning efforts at all levels of government, the records showed. Florida's environmental agencies under Scott have been downsized and retooled, making them less effective at coordinating sea level rise planning in the state, the documents showed. "If I were governor, I'd be out there talking about it (sea level rise) every day," said Eric Buermann, the former general counsel to the Republican Party of Florida who also served as a water district governing board member. "I think he's really got to grab ahold of this, set a vision, a long-term vision, and rally the people behind it. Unless you're going to build a sea wall around South Florida, what's the plan?" The issue presents a public works challenge that could cost billions here and nationwide. In the third-most populous U.S. state, where most residents live near a coast, municipalities say they need statewide coordination and aid to prepare for the costly road ahead. Communities like St. Augustine can do only so much alone. If one city builds a seawall, it might divert water to a neighbor. Cities also lack the technology, money and manpower to keep back the seas by themselves. ... St. Augustine's civil engineer says that the low-lying village will probably need a New Orleans-style pumping system to keep water out — but that but no one knows exactly what to do and the state's been unhelpful. "Only when the frequency of flooding increases will people get nervous about it, and by then it will be too late," engineer Reuben Franklin said. "There's no guidance from the state or federal level. ... Everything I've found to help I've gotten by searching the Internet." ... Tampa and Miami are particularly vulnerable to rising seas — many roads and bridges weren't designed to handle higher tides, according to the National Climate Change Assessment. Officials say Daytona Beach roads, too, flood more often than in the 1990s. South Miami passed a resolution calling for South Florida to secede from the more conservative northern half of the state so it could deal with climate change itself. Insurance giant Swiss Re has estimated that the economy in southeast Florida could sustain $33 billion in damage from rising seas and other climate-related damage in 2030, according to the Miami-Dade Sea Level Rise Task Force. Cities like St. Augustine have looked for help, but Scott's disregard for climate change science has created a culture of fear among state employees, records show. The administration has been adamant that employees, including scientists, not "assign cause" in public statements about global warming or sea level rise, internal government emails show. For example, an April 28, 2014, email approving a DEP scientist's request to participate in a National Geographic story came with a warning: "Approved. Make no claims as to cause ... stay with the research you are doing, of course," the DEP manager, Pamela Phillips, warned. "I know the drill," responded Mike Shirley, manager of the Guana Tolomato Matanzas National Estuarine Research Reserve near St. Augustine. Agency spokeswoman Engel said Phillips was a lower-level staffer whose views didn't necessarily reflect the entire administration. When asked whether staffers are told not to assign cause, Scott's office said "the allegations are not true". Most towns say they cannot afford the cost of climate change studies or regional coordination. "For us, it's a reality, it's not a political issue," said Courtney Barker, city manager of Satellite Beach. The town near Cape Canaveral used to flood during tropical weather, but now just a heavy rainstorm can make roads impassable for commuters. [B]"When you have to listen to that mantra, 'Climate change, is it real or not?' you kind of chuckle, because you see it," Barker said.[/B][/QUOTE]
my family makes jokes about the rising coast lines, saying that our house will soon be a beachfront property floridians don't really give a shit and i never seen anyone nearby talk about it besides that and this news article.
[quote]Insurance giant Swiss Re has estimated that the economy in southeast Florida could sustain $33 billion in damage from rising seas and other climate-related damage in 2030, according to the Miami-Dade Sea Level Rise Task Force.[/quote] I honestly can't see how Republicans and others still reject climate change when it's not just scientists that have pushed the case that it exists, but even businesses have accounted for it.
I wonder if it means I'll be in front of a Hurricane for once sometime soon. I doubt it.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;47699144]I honestly can't see how Republicans and others still reject climate change when it's not just scientists that have pushed the case that it exists, but even businesses have accounted for it.[/QUOTE] Well The florida officials banned all discussion of climate change from emails, reports, and gov communication so [url]http://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article12983720.html[/url] kinda hard to tell people that when you can't say it
Oh yeah, florida's been fucked for a while. The city is built on a foundation of silt and porous limestone. Imagine looking out your window and watching water rapidly bleed out of the grass, your neighbour's yards, running down the street. The long, slow peninsular flood is inevitable.
[QUOTE=Wii60;47699140]my family makes jokes about the rising coast lines, saying that our house will soon be a beachfront property floridians don't really give a shit and i never seen anyone nearby talk about it besides that and this news article.[/QUOTE] Probably because 90% of the state are retirees who think they'll be dead in 5-10 years and won't be bothered by this :v: [editline]10th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Antdawg;47699144]I honestly can't see how Republicans and others still reject climate change when it's not just scientists that have pushed the case that it exists, but even businesses have accounted for it.[/QUOTE] Simple: The businesses that lobby the GOP aren't affected by this or based in Florida.
Florida is pretty much fucked, Rick Scott could care less, unfortunately. My mom always joked about the rising sea levels when we lived in Miami, glad we don't live in Miami anymore, there is no plan for the rising sea levels, thanks to the dumbasses in Tallahassee.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47699313][B]Probably because 90% of the state are retirees who think they'll be dead in 5-10 years and won't be bothered by this :v:[/B] [editline]10th May 2015[/editline] Simple: The businesses that lobby the GOP aren't affected by this or based in Florida.[/QUOTE] Floridian here for 19 years, I can confirm this statement as being 100% true.
There isn't really a whole lot that can be done with rising sea levels beyond stopgap measures here. The coast is pounded by hurricanes on a fairly regular basis so going full Netherlands and building fuckloads of levees isn't very viable because they will inevitably flood when a hurricane whacks it. The ground at the coasts is largely made up of extremely fine sand layered on top of porous limestone. Pretty much the entirety of Florida is sandbar with delusions of grandeur. Half the state and pretty much every major population center will be underwater if sea levels rise 5 meters in the next hundred or so years. [t]http://i.imgur.com/7wZjwFn.jpg[/t]
Shit, I guess I have another reason to move up north.
[QUOTE=Saber15;47699373]There isn't really a whole lot that can be done with rising sea levels beyond stopgap measures here. The coast is pounded by hurricanes on a fairly regular basis so going full Netherlands and building fuckloads of levees isn't very viable because they will inevitably flood when a hurricane whacks it. The ground at the coasts is largely made up of extremely fine sand layered on top of porous limestone. Pretty much the entirety of Florida is sandbar with delusions of grandeur. Half the state and pretty much every major population center will be underwater if sea levels rise 5 meters in the next hundred or so years. [t]http://i.imgur.com/7wZjwFn.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] After 5 meters, I think most of the east coast will look similar.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47699413]After 5 meters, I think most of the east coast will look similar.[/QUOTE] The Florida Panhandle has the lowest overall elevation of the US. Delaware only manages to beat the whole Florida state courtesy of some hills in northern Florida. That picture wipes out every major population center besides Tallahassee and Orlando, the entirety of the Everglades national park, and Lake Okeechobee.
[QUOTE=Saber15;47699373]There isn't really a whole lot that can be done with rising sea levels beyond stopgap measures here. The coast is pounded by hurricanes on a fairly regular basis so going full Netherlands and building fuckloads of levees isn't very viable because they will inevitably flood when a hurricane whacks it. The ground at the coasts is largely made up of extremely fine sand layered on top of porous limestone. Pretty much the entirety of Florida is sandbar with delusions of grandeur. Half the state and pretty much every major population center will be underwater [B]if sea levels rise 5 meters in the next hundred or so years.[/B][/QUOTE] Well we're currently on track to see about 1' of sea level rise in ~100 years; still serious, but more manageable. Given the amount of time it would/could take to make that kind of adjustment, moving the cities inland and all, it'd be nice to get started on some kind of plan.
Still, that's a lot of land of other states literally going down the drain [t]http://maps.risingsea.net/CCSP/1.1_Regional_index_Titus_and_Wang_2008.jpg[/t] Large chunks of New Jersey, including it's major beach-tourist industry, will be going away, and Maryland will be severed in two. Not to mention what will happen to Long Island.
Floridan officials have just released a statement, outlining a plan to deal with the problem by bribing Poseidon with confiscated cocaine shipments.
How will Jacksonville be effected?
I've lived here all my life and haven't once heard about it. Honestly as a personal problem there is none because you can always move somewhere else but as a state problem this could be detrimental.
[QUOTE=Wii60;47699140]my family makes jokes about the rising coast lines, saying that our house will soon be a beachfront property floridians don't really give a shit and i never seen anyone nearby talk about it besides that and this news article.[/QUOTE] I've lived in Florida almost my entire life. Born here, and as much as I hate to admit it, I will probably die here. I'm a 7th generation native to this state, and this is the first I'm hearing of this problem. I lived in Clearwater for a long time (a stone's throw from Tampa & St Petersburg), and there was never any indication that water levels were going to be a problem any time soon. The bridges there are all extremely high. They have to be, cargo ships and cruise ships routinely come in under the Skyway bridge and go north to the ports. Most of the area is pretty high above the water. I can't speak to St Augustine or Miami, but this problem also didn't seem to exist in West Palm Beach & Fort Lauderdale when I lived there either. And it doesn't seem to exist at all here at Daytona Beach. By all means, I believe in climate change, I believe it's a real threat, but I've seen the projection maps of rising sea levels. No matter how many breakers or keys you build, unless you entirely dyke in Florida like they did to the Netherlands, it's GOING to flood. Florida will, at some point, become an island state and there's not much we can do about it unless we stop the sea levels from rising. [editline]10th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Saber15;47699373]There isn't really a whole lot that can be done with rising sea levels beyond stopgap measures here. The coast is pounded by hurricanes on a fairly regular basis so going full Netherlands and building fuckloads of levees isn't very viable because they will inevitably flood when a hurricane whacks it. The ground at the coasts is largely made up of extremely fine sand layered on top of porous limestone. Pretty much the entirety of Florida is sandbar with delusions of grandeur. Half the state and pretty much every major population center will be underwater if sea levels rise 5 meters in the next hundred or so years. [t]http://i.imgur.com/7wZjwFn.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] Honestly I think this new, slimmer Florida looks sexy. Maybe now Texas will finally love us. [editline]10th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Saber15;47699506]The Florida Panhandle has the lowest overall elevation of the US. Delaware only manages to beat the whole Florida state courtesy of some hills in northern Florida. That picture wipes out every major population center besides Tallahassee and Orlando, the entirety of the Everglades national park, and Lake Okeechobee.[/QUOTE] Gainesville will survive, too. Although the loss of Lake Okeechobee, the Everglades, and all the historical landmarks and wildlife preserves will be a MASSIVE fucking hit to our state ecology. Hell, to the country's ecology.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;47699144]I honestly can't see how Republicans and others still reject climate change when it's not just scientists that have pushed the case that it exists, but even businesses have accounted for it.[/QUOTE] Because ignorant people are ignorant and care only about things that happen in the short-term.
[QUOTE=TheNerdPest14;47699689]How will Jacksonville be effected?[/QUOTE] [img]http://i.cubeupload.com/U0srCR.png[/img] Overlaid the depth map on google maps. It's not perfect but it's as close as I can get it. Red is areas that will remain above water at a 5m sea level increase.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47699556]Still, that's a lot of land of other states literally going down the drain [t]http://maps.risingsea.net/CCSP/1.1_Regional_index_Titus_and_Wang_2008.jpg[/t] Large chunks of New Jersey, including it's major beach-tourist industry, will be going away, and Maryland will be severed in two. Not to mention what will happen to Long Island.[/QUOTE] Living on Long Island, this is just another reason to move the hell away.
[QUOTE=TheNerdPest14;47699689]How will Jacksonville be effected?[/QUOTE] half of it will die if your on the left side of st johns you will live and now be right next to the sunny beach. edit: wow i just realized its gonna take out the entirety of i-95 in FL. [editline]10th May 2015[/editline] by the way here's how climage change discussion acts now in FL [video=youtube;5hMCevgPGjY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hMCevgPGjY[/video]
[QUOTE=Wii60;47700060] wow i just realized its gonna take out the entirety of i-95 in FL. [/QUOTE] What? No, not all of I-95. Maybe... 50%? It'll remain intact from just north of West Palm Beach up to Palm Bay, north of Titusville to Daytona Beach, a smidge between Daytona Beach towards Palm Coast, and from North Palm Coast thru St Augustine to Ponte Vedra Beach.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;47699144]I honestly can't see how Republicans and others still reject climate change when it's not just scientists that have pushed the case that it exists, but even businesses have accounted for it.[/QUOTE] 33 billion with a B in the next 15 years... Farkkk!
LMAO I live on the island in St.Augustine, its a 7 minute drive to the fort. Fuuuuuuuck
I'm gonna buy property in Sanford so my grandchildren can sell/rent it as beachfront living space
Well, at least Disney World will be safe. Florida's economy will soldier on with the help of grand daddy Walt.
Well I don't plan on sticking around after I get my degree. I doubt this state will be able to figure it's shit out, especially when we keep electing people who deny science.
[QUOTE=LZTYBRN;47700535]I'm gonna buy property in Sanford so my grandchildren can sell/rent it as beachfront living space[/QUOTE] It wouldn't really be beachfront. More like inlet front. [editline]11th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=shadow_oap;47700779]Well I don't plan on sticking around after I get my degree. I doubt this state will be able to figure it's shit out, especially when we keep electing people who deny science.[/QUOTE] Dude there's nothing to figure out. There's no saving Florida no matter how much money we throw at it. We have too many hurricanes for any sort of levee or dyke system to be effective, not to mention the ground just isn't stable enough for that sort of large scale construction (fine silt sand on top of limestone). We'd have to surround the ENTIRE STATE with levees to stop it from flooding, and we'd have to make them at the very least 2m or more above current high tide sea level. Most likely we'd have to expand upon that in the future. Do you have ANY IDEA how expensive that would be?
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