U.S. says Russia must pull convoy from Ukraine or else
47 replies, posted
[IMG]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77113000/jpg/_77113497_023584419-1.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE](Reuters) - The United States demanded Moscow remove an aid convoy it sent into rebel-held eastern Ukraine without permission on Friday, accusing Russia of a flagrant violation of the sovereignty of its former Soviet neighbour and threatening more sanctions.
Moscow, which has thousands of troops close to the Russian side of the border, warned against any attempt to "disrupt" the convoy, which it said was purely humanitarian. It did not say what action it might take if the Ukrainian military intervened.
NATO's top military commander said the movement of trucks looked like a disguised attempt to reinforce separatist forces.
The Western defence alliance said Russian troops had been firing artillery across the border and within Ukraine in a major escalation of military support for pro-Moscow rebels since mid-August, a defacto charge that Russia was already waging war.
White House Deputy National Security Advisor Ben Rhodes said Washington planned to discuss the situation with the U.N. Security Council on Friday and that if the convoy was not pulled out, the Russians would face "additional costs".
"We have seen the use of Russian artillery in Ukraine in the past days," he said, when asked about the NATO statement.
Moscow denies backing the rebels militarily but the United States and European Union have imposed sanctions and the Kremlin has retaliated, renewing some of the chill of the Cold War. NATO has deployed extra troops in member states bordering Russia, including former Soviet Baltic states and ex-communist Poland.
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko described the entry of the trucks without Kiev's permission as a "flagrant violation of international law". But a senior security chief said Ukrainian forces would let them pass to avoid "provocations".
Kiev called on international allies to unite in "a decisive condemnation of illegal and aggressive actions" by Russia.
NATO also said Russia risked further international isolation. It has ruled out intervening militarily on behalf of Ukraine, which is not a member, and Europe has been reluctant to step up sanctions due to trade ties and its need for Russian gas.
Russia said it was not breaching international law and that Russian President Vladimir Putin had told German Chancellor Angela Merkel in a telephone call Moscow had been unable to wait any longer for Kiev's green light to help people in distress.
Merkel, who also spoke to Poroshenko, expressed her great concern, praising the Ukrainians for a "prudent" reaction and calling for a speedy ceasefire and shoring up of the frontier.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/08/22/uk-ukraine-crisis-idUKKBN0GL1VH20140822[/url]
Totally 100% just food and medical supplies.
[QUOTE=counterpo0;45772632]Totally 100% just food and medical supplies.[/QUOTE]
Or if Russia is to be believed, 20% food and medical supplies, 80% empty "because the roads are bad and these trucks are crap".
How about instead of sanctions we send them guided munitions instead for once?
[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;45772699]How about instead of sanctions we send them guided munitions instead for once?[/QUOTE]
With what, our six jets?
[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;45772699]How about instead of sanctions we send them guided munitions instead for once?[/QUOTE]
Yeah just start bombing an extremely powerful nuclear power and UN member.
[B]or else[/B]
It's like the world is recognizing Crimea as Russian, they didn't get jack shit for sanctions for seizing a large part of Ukraine but they get sanctions for a convoy into Luhansk?
This is one weird way to commemorate the centenary.
[QUOTE=laserguided;45772753]It's like the world is recognizing Crimea as Russian, they didn't get jack shit for sanctions for seizing a large part of Ukraine but they get sanctions for a convoy into Luhansk?[/QUOTE]
Very few countries has recognized Crimea as now being legally part of Russia. I was watching the news earlier about the convoy crossing over into Ukraine, and they showed a map of Ukraine with Crimea still a part of it.
Why haven't we sent troops and weapons into Ukraine yet? I mean, to support Ukrainian troops defeating the pro-russian badguys? That would deter russia from further action.
[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;45772903]Very few countries has recognized Crimea as now being legally part of Russia. I was watching the news earlier about the convoy crossing over into Ukraine, and they showed a map of Ukraine with Crimea still a part of it.[/QUOTE]
Then why didn't they place "Tier 3" sanctions on Russia for invading Ukraine 5 months ago when they actually invaded and took large portions of land?
[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;45772699]How about instead of sanctions we send them guided munitions instead for once?[/QUOTE]
Aah yes, Canada.
The opponent nobody expected.
[QUOTE=laserguided;45772935]Then why didn't they place "Tier 3" sanctions on Russia for invading Ukraine 5 months ago when they actually invaded and took large portions of land?[/QUOTE]
Beats me. All I know is that it is only a few African nations, China (big surprise) and... some other Asian country I have honestly forgotten, who recognize Russia's "claim" to Crimea.
As for the sanctions, the US can safely impose as many as they wish, unlike the EU. The EU is, for better or worse, very much dependent on the Russian gas, and so, if too many harsh sanctions are put against Russia, they might cut their supplies.
Makes me even angrier when you stop and realize our last Prime Minister literally allowed the Russians access to our own oil and gas. Great fucking job on that!
[QUOTE=NeverGoWest;45772918]Why haven't we sent troops and weapons into Ukraine yet? I mean, to support Ukrainian troops defeating the pro-russian badguys? That would deter russia from further action.[/QUOTE]
Ukraine is not part of NATO, and as much as I want to see them helped militarily as well, it's simply not feasible. We would risk sanctions of our own, and maybe, just a [I]tiny[/I] maybe, a war with Russia. A war that Europe is anything but truly prepared for, if everything come to worse.
Europe and NATO will not go to war over Ukraine. The benefits (closer relations with Ukraine) are far outweighed by the negatives (sanctions against ourselves and, however unlikely, war).
[QUOTE=Explosions;45772711]Yeah just start bombing an extremely powerful nuclear power and UN member.[/QUOTE]
Every country is a UN member, what does that make a difference?
[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;45772699]How about instead of sanctions we send them guided munitions instead for once?[/QUOTE]
You and anyone else with a hard-on to attack should get their shit packed up and fly on over to the front lines they want to create.
No don't say "or else"
we don't want to do the else and when we don't fox news will make fun of us :C
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45773622]Every country is a UN member, what does that make a difference?[/QUOTE]
I think he meant permanent member of the UN Security Council, plus they can veto.
The problem is, even if the conflict is resolved and Russia backs off, this is just going to keep happening. Give Russia 40 years, and this will start all over again (yes, I know Russia didn't exactly start this but they've fueled it).
[quote]Moscow, which has thousands of troops close to the Russian side of the border, warned against any attempt to "disrupt" the convoy, which it said was purely humanitarian.[/quote]
oh so now you care about starving ukrainians
[QUOTE=laserguided;45772935]Then why didn't they place "Tier 3" sanctions on Russia for invading Ukraine 5 months ago when they actually invaded and took large portions of land?[/QUOTE]
Because the EU is heavily reliant on oil from Russia, getting 1/3 of their supply there.
Did Ukraine ever actually ask for the convoy or give it the OK to come across the border?
[QUOTE=duno;45772728][B]or else[/B][/QUOTE]
I'm just picturing the US shaking its fist muttering "Why I oughta!"
[QUOTE=_demolisher_;45774722][img]http://www.thedrum.com/uploads/drum_basic_article/99914/main_images/coca%20cola_0.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Reminds me of
[video=youtube;thILxw6wBJE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thILxw6wBJE[/video]
[QUOTE=EpicRandomnes;45773730]The problem is, even if the conflict is resolved and Russia backs off, this is just going to keep happening. Give Russia 40 years, and this will start all over again (yes, I know Russia didn't exactly start this but they've fueled it).[/QUOTE]
So what? In 40 years, we'll attempt to stop them again. You don't let a thief steal just because you know he'll keep stealing.
[editline]23rd August 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=cdr248;45773673]No don't say "or else"
we don't want to do the else and when we don't fox news will make fun of us :C[/QUOTE]
It was pretty stupid when Obama drew "the red line" in Syria, had it crossed, then did absolutely nothing.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45773622]Every country is a UN member, what does that make a difference?[/QUOTE]
They're permanent members on the Security Council, meaning that every military decision made by the UN has to go through them, as well as China, Britain, France, and the USA.
[QUOTE=Glue Factory;45773683]I think he meant permanent member of the UN Security Council, plus they can veto.[/QUOTE]
Then he ought to have specified that. How his post is worded now sounds stupid.
