Pope Francis says do not insult other faiths in response to Charlie Hebdo attack
70 replies, posted
[QUOTE]POPE Francis has condemned any killing in God’s name, but also insisted there were limits to freedom of speech and said other people’s religion could not be insulted or mocked. The Pope made the comments on Thursday in relation to the attack by Islamists on the offices of French satirical weekly Charlie Hebdo in Paris last week in which 12 people died. “To kill in the name of God is an absurdity,” the Pope told reporters aboard a plane travelling from Sri Lanka to the Philippines.
But the 78-year-old pontiff also said “each religion has its dignity” and “there are limits”.
“You cannot provoke, you cannot insult other people’s faith, you cannot mock it,” the pontiff said.
“Freedom of speech is a right and a duty that must be displayed without offending.”
[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.news.com.au/world/pope-francis-says-do-not-insult-other-faiths/story-fndir2ev-1227186533856[/url]
Here's another article about the same announcement.
[url]http://time.com/3668875/pope-francis-charlie-hebdo/[/url]
[quote]“If [a close friend] says a swear word against my mother, he’s going to get a punch in the nose,” he explained. “One cannot provoke, one cannot insult other people’s faith, one cannot make fun of faith.”[/quote]
Total bullshit. He is demonstrating a middle-school level or morality and tolerance here. What an absurd thing to say. This thought process is absolute justification for violence against dissenting ideas.
I have trouble with this because it's so damn hard to know where the limit is. I don't want to sound like a reddit atheist but it's sincerely difficult to know where cults or superstitions end and where religion begins. Is Wicca a religion I can't mock? How about Scientology? Satanism or Luciferanism? What about people who sincerely believe illuminati rule the world? All of these could legitimately be people who believe in good faith.
God forbid someone uses their free speech to hurt someone's feelings
People get insulted by the smallest and pettiest of things and some even take things out of context just to spark conflict, so this is pretty silly to say.
Its more of him saying, you can judge religions if you want, but you can't just flat-out say...
ISLAMISTS ARE INSANE KILLERS
or
ALL CHRISTIANS ARE PEDOS
or
ALL JEWISH PEOPLE ARE RICH BASTARDS
Well what does anyone expect the Pope to say, that you should insult religions with reckless abandon? :v:
Imagine getting punched in the face by the [U]pope[/U]! What a weird thing for him to say, seriously.
Jesus would turn the other cheek, but the pope is gonna punch you right in the face
"I hate people who insult other faiths."
"Francis is there anything you DON'T hate?"
"Y'know what I don't hate? I don't hate freedom of speech."
I respect the message he's giving. This entire thing is a massive religion mockfest from the Islamists getting offended to the world at large labeling every Islamic as a terrorist or radical. It's sad on both parts.
If we want a peaceful society, regardless of ideologies or beliefs in the supernatural and in politics, we must learn to respect each other's individuality and keep the humor to such in a socially acceptable and responsible sense. There's a difference between anonymous posts online, a chat with a friend, and a broadcast on national television or through syndicated media outlets.
Doesn't Charlie Hebdo tend to avoid actual religious offensiveness? They threw a field day over how awful the anti-Semitic Dieudonné was, I really get the feeling that they're not out to say 'Islam sucks' but just to say 'Extremist anything sucks'.
Then again, I get that the Pope wouldn't be a fan of Charlie considering it said that his predecessor was a paedophile child rapist.
[QUOTE=Galen;46940469]"I hate people who insult other faiths."
"Francis is there anything you DON'T hate?"
"Y'know what I don't hate? I don't hate freedom of speech."[/QUOTE]
Well this is how his freedom of speech goes.
If you go onto a forum and post something like "For some reason, i believe that some of the ideals of the Islamic religion is clearly outdated and should be improved"
You are not offending a religion, you are simply asking why is it like that and you wish for it to be changed. That is the freedom of speech he prefers.
But if you go in public or onto a forum and say something like this "Everyone who believes in religion is a stupid idiot or moron" Thats not regular criticizing, your just offending them completely out right. And like what the pope said, you are going to have some people pissed off at you.
Also the Charlie hebdo thing, he is more of speaking about the people who are yelling stuff about Anti-Islam and how they are a threat to European society. Even though there is a large amount of sane muslims in Europe.
[QUOTE=The Saiko;46940420]Imagine getting punched in the face by the [U]pope[/U]! What a weird thing for him to say, seriously.
Jesus would turn the other cheek, but the pope is gonna punch you right in the face[/QUOTE]
Well he was a bouncer.
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46940498]Doesn't Charlie Hebdo tend to avoid actual religious offensiveness? They threw a field day over how awful the anti-Semitic Dieudonné was, I really get the feeling that they're not out to say 'Islam sucks' but just to say 'Extremist anything sucks'.
Then again, I get that the Pope wouldn't be a fan of Charlie considering it said that his predecessor was a paedophile child rapist.[/QUOTE]
I have to read/keep an eye on Charlie Hebdo for a french class and from what I've seen it looks as if they're willing to mock anyone.
[QUOTE=deltasquid;46940367]I have trouble with this because it's so damn hard to know where the limit is. I don't want to sound like a reddit atheist but it's sincerely difficult to know where cults or superstitions end and where religion begins. Is Wicca a religion I can't mock? How about Scientology? Satanism or Luciferanism? What about people who sincerely believe illuminati rule the world? All of these could legitimately be people who believe in good faith.[/QUOTE]
Those are more of Cults than religions. In order terms they are beyond fuck up...
Yeah no. It's time we stop treating religions like special things that can't be made fun of or criticised.
[QUOTE=SelfishDragon;46940375]God forbid someone uses their free speech to hurt someone's feelings[/QUOTE]
Free speech isn't speech that's free of consequences, which is the problem. The Pope obviously isn't demanding that we don't make fun of other religions, but he's right and if we didn't do that then this shit wouldn't happen, which I think is a reasonable claim.
[editline]15th January 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kljunas;46940631]Yeah no. It's time we stop treating religions like special things that can't be made fun of or criticised.[/QUOTE]
you totally can make fun of them or criticize them, but i think history will show that it will generally end poorly for you
[QUOTE=Remedial Math;46940656]Free speech isn't speech that's free of consequences, which is the problem. The Pope obviously isn't demanding that we don't make fun of other religions, but he's right and if we didn't do that then this shit wouldn't happen, which I think is a reasonable claim.
you totally can make fun of them or criticize them, but i think history will show that it will generally end poorly for you[/QUOTE]
Nice victim blaming, mate. Free speech should be free of consequences ideally (at least bodily harm). To think that a person should be punched because they say stuff you disagree with is pretty fucked up.
[QUOTE=Remedial Math;46940656]Free speech isn't speech that's free of consequences, which is the problem. The Pope obviously isn't demanding that we don't make fun of other religions, but he's right and if we didn't do that then this shit wouldn't happen, which I think is a reasonable claim.
[editline]15th January 2015[/editline]
you totally can make fun of them or criticize them, but i think history will show that it will generally end poorly for you[/QUOTE]
If criticizing someone in a way they find offensive makes them take action to hurt you or silence you, no matter what you said, the entirity of the responsibility for those actions is on those who do it.
You're basically saying "You deserve whatever a crazy person who's offended by what you said decides to do to you, shoulda watched your mouth" which is stupid.
Comedians mock and make jokes about religion(s) everyday. I guess the question is whether the subject matter is tasteful or not.
[QUOTE=Snood_1990;46940802]Comedians mock and make jokes about religion(s) everyday. I guess the question is whether the subject matter is tasteful or not.[/QUOTE]
what is "Distasteful"? Give me a definition that applies to all people at all times.
Oh, that's impossible you say? Yes, then, here we are at the problem of how do we deal with offense when we treat certain kinds of offenses as "Special".
Here's how I see this entire thing:
You have the freedom to say whatever you want.
If you offend someone, they have the right to say "you're a fucking asshole".
but that's pretty much it. Fight speech with speech. Make everything an argument
[QUOTE=Snood_1990;46940802]Comedians mock and make jokes about religion(s) everyday. I guess the question is whether the subject matter is tasteful or not.[/QUOTE]
Well their version of making fun of them is just for comedic purposes, i am use to that if somebody makes a christian joke or something.
But the ones that piss me off is the ones that just plain insult my religion. Like some Fedora wearing Redditor saying "YOU GUYS ARE ALL MURDERS"
Thats not comedy, thats just being an asshole.
[QUOTE=Deathtrooper2;46940864]Well their version of making fun of them is just for comedic purposes, i am use to that if somebody makes a christian joke or something.
But the ones that piss me off is the ones that just plain insult my religion. Like some Fedora wearing Redditor saying "YOU GUYS ARE ALL MURDERS"
Thats not comedy, thats just being an asshole.[/QUOTE]
Sure, they're being an asshole, what's the reprisal for that? Should they not be allowed to be an asshole?
People are assholes to me all the time, but the difference is you can fall back on your faith and say it's rude and wrong to insult that, but I just have to take it and deal with it and never have anything come from it.
Nothing makes you above being offended. I think all people globally just need to learn to deal with that.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;46940876]Sure, they're being an asshole, what's the reprisal for that? Should they not be allowed to be an asshole?
People are assholes to me all the time, but the difference is you can fall back on your faith and say it's rude and wrong to insult that, but I just have to take it and deal with it and never have anything come from it.
Nothing makes you above being offended. I think all people globally just need to learn to deal with that.[/QUOTE]
Well i mean i can usually deal with some random person saying that crap and usually i can ignore that.
But if there is somebody out there yelling to the whole world that my people are terrible and spread false lies about them and says it's his Freedom of Speech. Im not going to stand for it.
[QUOTE=Deathtrooper2;46940901]Well i mean i can usually deal with some random person saying that crap and usually i can ignore that.
But if there is somebody out there yelling to the whole world that my people are terrible and spread false lies about them and says it's his Freedom of Speech. Im not going to stand for it.[/QUOTE]
so what are you going to do it about it? What gives you the right to silence another person? What gives anyone that right?
Why are you special and get these special rights that I could literally never assume I have
He's not ordering you to stop it, stop crying about your freedom of speech. He's saying that you shouldn't be insulting all Muslims for what happened.
[QUOTE=ImperialGuard;46941029]He's not ordering you to stop it, stop crying about your freedom of speech. He's saying that you shouldn't be insulting all Muslims for what happened.[/QUOTE]
And no where did I do that so what on earth are you getting at
[editline]15th January 2015[/editline]
He IS saying offense over rules freedom of speech. My guess is you agree?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;46940908]so what are you going to do it about it? What gives you the right to silence another person? What gives anyone that right?
Why are you special and get these special rights that I could literally never assume I have[/QUOTE]
Its more of trying to shut up the uninformed, if you have idiots running around yelling out lies, but are saying it's there freedom of speech, its basically stupid.
Everyone has their own rights for freedom of speech. Im just saying there is some people that have no clue whats going on and are just blabbing misinformed information. Like Racist people calling African americans Evil. And then they call it their freedom of speech.
[QUOTE=Deathtrooper2;46941084]Its more of trying to shut up the uninformed, if you have idiots running around yelling out lies, but are saying it's there freedom of speech, its basically stupid.
Everyone has their own rights for freedom of speech. Im just saying there is some people that have no clue whats going on and are just blabbing misinformed information. Like Racist people calling African americans Evil. And then they call it their freedom of speech.[/QUOTE]
sure, I agree, they're wrong to say those things
are you going to prevent people who aren't "smart enough" from having freedom to speak? Sounds like it. Who determines who is "Smart enough"? Why do only some people get freedom of speech?
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