[QUOTE]Truth is elusive. But it's a good thing we have math.
Our friends at Business Insider know this, and put those two principles to work today in this excellent and highly informative little slideshow, made even more timely by the ongoing talks in Washington, D.C. aimed at staving off a U.S. debt default.
Here's the big idea:
Many people — politicians and pundits alike — prattle on that China and, to a lesser extent Japan, own most of America's $14.3 trillion in government debt.
But there's one little problem with that conventional wisdom: it's just not true. While the Chinese, Japanese and plenty of other foreigners own substantial amounts, [b]it's really Americans who hold most of America's debt.[/b]
Here's a quick and fascinating breakdown by total amount held and percentage of total U.S. debt, according to Business Insider:
> Hong Kong: $121.9 billion (0.9 percent)
> Caribbean banking centers: $148.3 (1 percent)
> Taiwan: $153.4 billion (1.1 percent)
> Brazil: $211.4 billion (1.5 percent)
> Oil exporting countries: $229.8 billion (1.6 percent)
> Mutual funds: $300.5 billion (2 percent)
> Commercial banks: $301.8 billion (2.1 percent)
> State, local and federal retirement funds: $320.9 billion (2.2 percent)
> Money market mutual funds: $337.7 billion (2.4 percent)
> United Kingdom: $346.5 billion (2.4 percent)
> Private pension funds: $504.7 billion (3.5 percent)
> State and local governments: $506.1 billion (3.5 percent)
> Japan: $912.4 billion (6.4 percent)
> U.S. households: $959.4 billion (6.6 percent)
[b]> China: $1.16 trillion (8 percent)[/b]
> The U.S. Treasury: $1.63 trillion (11.3 percent)
> Social Security trust fund: $2.67 trillion (19 percent)
[b]So America owes foreigners about $4.5 trillion in debt. But America owes America $9.8 trillion.[/b]
For a smart take on how President Obama and House Republicans should end gridlock over debt and deficits, see our new GlobalPost series The Negotiator, which features Wharton's negotiation guru Stuart Diamond.[/QUOTE]
Source: [url]http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/21/who-owns-america-hint-its-not-china/[/url]
So the rich folks over there literally own the country now? :v:
Who owns the debt? We owns the debt!
Oh boy. Figured they'd be able to pin this on us and make us pay for it.
[QUOTE=Stren;31787694]So the rich folks over there literally own the country now? :v:[/QUOTE]
Yay for capitalism.
[QUOTE=Shoupie;31787744]Yay for capitalism.[/QUOTE]
It's not the system, it's the people.
[QUOTE=Crhem van der B;31788027]It's not the system, it's the people.[/QUOTE]
The system itself doesn't help
move to canada
bring food or get out
[QUOTE=polarbear.;31788056]move to canada
bring food or get out[/QUOTE]
Is cheap gas a worthy substitute?
"Hey me, can you spot me another trillion?"
"No, you still owe yourself 9 trillion from the last 9 times you tried this"
...apparently once you are the United States, economics no longer have to make sense.
[QUOTE=fskman;31788082]Is cheap gas a worthy substitute?[/QUOTE]
Hahaha, cheap. $3+ a gallon.
old news, its part of why i find people arguing against raising taxes so hilarious
[editline]17th August 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Crhem van der B;31788027]It's not the system, it's the people.[/QUOTE]
this is really a case of the system making the people.
When Social Security was instated it wasn't meant to stay. It was apart of America being a Welfare State in the depression. But nobody has been able to shake the system because people just rely on it rather than secure their retirement themselves. And nobody just wants to take away old peoples money...
[QUOTE=Shoupie;31788119]Hahaha, cheap. $3+ a gallon.[/QUOTE]
Cheaper than in Canada I hear.
[QUOTE=Lizurd Man;31401790]The Federal Government is only in this much debt because it's citizens don't do their share. If everyone paid taxes like they were supposed to, the government of the United States wouldn't be in as much debt to everyone else so much.
When the citizens can't pay the government, the government needs to get money from somewhere. Nearly half, if not more, of the public debt is on the individual and institution end.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Mr. Sun;31788147]When Social Security was instated it wasn't meant to stay. It was apart of America being a Welfare State in the depression. But nobody has been able to shake the system because people just rely on it rather than secure their retirement themselves. And nobody just wants to take away old peoples money...[/QUOTE]
A lot of people can't afford to "secure" a retirement, and a welfare network is important in a civilized society.
[editline]17th August 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lizurd Man;31788211][/QUOTE]
Don't address the citizenry as if by and large most people don't pay taxes. It's mostly very rich folks and heads of corporations that exploit loopholes to effectively have lower taxes.
That's what happens when you give people money that doesn't exsist.
[QUOTE=Shoupie;31788119]Hahaha, cheap. $3+ a gallon.[/QUOTE]
That's a third of what gas has been around here for almost a decade.
In the United States of the America, you owes you.
Feel free to do better than that :v:
[QUOTE=fskman;31788082]Is cheap gas a worthy substitute?[/QUOTE]
For us who lives close to the border, we always hop over the border just to [del]smuggle[/del] fill up our tanks along with bring a few extra gas cans.
For "us", of course I meant the people I know including myself, not everyone else.
Damn it, guys. I would love to keep posting but I have to go work so I can pay off my debt to myself.
[QUOTE=Mr. Sun;31788147]When Social Security was instated it wasn't meant to stay. It was apart of America being a Welfare State in the depression. But nobody has been able to shake the system because people just rely on it rather than secure their retirement themselves. And nobody just wants to take away old peoples money...[/QUOTE]
Social security is in a surplus anyway, it ain't contributing to any government debt on its behalf except what it loans to the govt
And again, another great time for this link.
[url]http://www.usdebtclock.org/[/url]
[quote]> State and local governments: $506.1 billion (3.5 percent)
> The U.S. Treasury: $1.63 trillion (11.3 percent)[/quote]
wait wait wait
[i]what[/i]
How... how the fuck does that work. I mean, the 'US Households', 'Commercial Banks', 'Private Pension Funds' and whatnot make sense, but...
[i]The government owes the government its own money!?[/i]
God damn, our government is filled to the brim with idiots.
[QUOTE=Last or First;31788723]
[i]The government owes the government its own money!?[/i]
God damn, our government is filled to the brim with idiots.[/QUOTE]
No, the Federal Reserve is a private bank. It's run by extremely rich people.
The name "Federal Reserve" is just a name, just like the Federal Express (FedEx). You could call it the FedRes if you wanted to.
[QUOTE=Last or First;31788723]wait wait wait
[i]what[/i]
How... how the fuck does that work. I mean, the 'US Households', 'Commercial Banks', 'Private Pension Funds' and whatnot make sense, but...
[i]The government owes the government its own money!?[/i]
God damn, our government is filled to the brim with idiots.[/QUOTE]
The US Treasury is more independent from the Federal Government than you think.
[QUOTE=Bombardier.;31788893]If I were me, I would forgive my debt to myself.[/QUOTE]
But the Federal Reserve isn't a part of the federal government. We wouldn't owe this debt if the Treasury was the one to print US money instead of the Federal Reserve.
Basically we owe money to a bunch of shitheads that SOMEHOW got the right to print our money.
mmm okay so america owes america $9.8 trillion
[img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ZH7_5qEulCE/SeOZrqR-u7I/AAAAAAAABDU/9Sh-MYlMV1c/s320/jump_off_cliff.jpg[/img]
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