[url]http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/russian-aid-convoy-trucks-finally-clear-customs-enter-ukraine-n185816[/url]
Regardless of your views of Russia's suspected involvement in the crisis you cannot deny the civilians there are suffering and in need of aid.
If it has passed customs then you one can say it does not contain the military supplies several people here speculated.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKGQnJs6C2Y[/media]
Problem - It is crossing without the permission from Kiev
[QUOTE=Itsjustguy;45766331]Problem - It is crossing without the permission from Kiev[/QUOTE]
So people should die because Kiev doesn't want Russia to be the ones to save them?
If Kiev was in a position to provide aid then that would be preferable but they are in large debt and have trouble supplying the army as it is already. The militia groups on both sides are too preoccupied with fighting and don't have the resources to supply aid and no other countries, to my knowledge, have offered to help the people there.
Kiev government is really acting as a dick towards free aid. Changing the routes all the time, blocking it at every occasion, not making a cease fire to let it pass.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;45766349]Kiev government is really acting as a dick towards free aid. Changing the routes all the time, blocking it at every occasion, not making a cease fire to let it pass.[/QUOTE]
Too proud and stubborn to help their own people.
[QUOTE=Teddybeer;45766448]How dare they to refuse aid from a country they think is the cause and/or actively fueling the conflict and responsible for so many deaths in the first place.
And its not exactly that russia is helping by taking a rebel hold location to cross the border.[/QUOTE]
Civillians on both sides are in need of aid and this country provides it. This just shows how little they care of people. Politics first, people last.
[QUOTE=Teddybeer;45766527]
Please do not deny that Russia is also doing this for political reasons, and if they really cared so much those 280 trucks would be filled till the bellies of them scraped the dirt and the red cross would not be a "do we have to?" option but on speed dial and would not take the most controversial route they could think of.[/QUOTE]
I don't deny that is it politicized and at no point have I done so.
You mentioned filled till the bellies.
2 things.
One yes, more trucks looks more impressive and they probably have used more than necissary but they are providing the supplies needed, so those people are being helped, regardless if or not there are more trucks than necissary.
Two You wouldn't want to fully load trucks. Trucks would be vulnerable to fire from militias, roads might be war damaged a heavy fully laiden truck will struggle where a less full truck won't. If you carry less stuff per truck then if a truck breaks down or is incapacitated in whatever way then others trucks can take up the extra burden.
As for the red cross thing, you are making it out to be malicious I think it is more a case of Russia being independent and not asking permission instead of them trying to be underhanded.
[QUOTE=Teddybeer;45766527]Replies like that are who the convoy is all about size and very little about how much is in those trucks. Why Russia is actively searching for a humanitarian mission and is claiming Kiev wants to cleanse Luhansk and Donetsk. Why huge amounts of refugees are showing on tv and talked about how horrible it is there day and night.
Please do not deny that Russia is also doing this for political reasons, and if they really cared so much those 280 trucks would be filled till the bellies of them scraped the dirt and the red cross would not be a "do we have to?" option but on speed dial and would not take the most controversial route they could think of.[/QUOTE]
Russia is doing it for political reasons, but at last it's doing something good.
[editline]22nd August 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;45766619]Yes, these near-empty repainted trucks surely contain aid sent by the big and mercyful Putin.[/QUOTE]
Proof on "near-empty"? If they don't contain aid what do they contain?
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;45766619]Yes, these near-empty repainted trucks surely contain aid sent by the big and mercyful Putin.[/QUOTE]
Remember this?
[t]http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bu2ocCzCUAA6g-p.jpg[/t]
Before they were searched this picture was posted, along with implications of it being full to the brim of weapons.
Now they are searched and there are no weapons, suddenly all the trucks are empty.
Sure some of the pictures show them not fully loaded but to say it is empty is a gross exaggeration serving only the purposes of propaganda.
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;45766661][url]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/21/russian-aid-convoy-ukraine-customs-cargo-check[/url]
[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/16/world/europe/some-russian-aid-trucks-are-nearly-empty-reporters-find.html?_r=0[/url]
[url]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28799627[/url]
go be a putin apologist somewhere else, that'd be nice[/QUOTE]
For once Russia does something good and people still attack it. Come on, civillians are getting food!
As said before, if Russia was legitimate about helping people, they would present the help in a more legitimate fashion. choosing a rebel controlled border to pass trough is not the best way, especially since
The rebels are allegedly supported by Russia (Artillery support from russian border, equipment and training).
Also I personally would be suspicious of accepting humanitarian help from a country that just annexed part of me.
Being suspicious is okay. But the trucks have been searched. What else do you need?
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;45766728]yes, even though stalin industrialized russia/sovjet and gave people work, he had what, 20 million people killed?[/QUOTE]
How's that related?
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;45766723]Being suspicious is okay. But the trucks have been searched. What else do you need?[/QUOTE]
Just curious, who did search the trucks? I don't really keep up wiht the news.
[QUOTE=kaukassus;45766748]Just curious, who did search the trucks? I don't really keep up wiht the news.[/QUOTE]
The source above shows the search.
[url]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28799627[/url]
[editline]22nd August 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;45766756]because even though putin is treating his own people like shit and is directly involved with this invasion (also: invaded and annexed krim), it's apparently okay because he sent a convoy of near-empty kamaz trucks from which the so-called supplies were opened and consumed by the russians transporting it, and if you dare to say something else, you're a war monger.[/QUOTE]
Right now, without looking back at the past, Russia is doing a good thing. People who lack basic essentials will have their needs fulfilled.
If the trucks are confirmed to be safe - let them fucking do that! Why the hell not?
"I am sorry Mr. Putin, we dislike you personally so we will let our people starve"- like this?
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;45766786]you're brainwashed by your own media. what makes you think 15 bags of rice will help entire towns? it's a political statement by putin trying to safe his own face, and that's ALL there is to it. fuck the kreml, fuck putin, and stop trying to push your agenda of «he's just doing the right thing!» after he's spent month destabilizing the area for his own good.[/QUOTE]
I am sorry, but am I the one brainwashed if I don't any namecalling, don't yell "fuck obama/poroshekno/anyone"?
I don't wish to discuss anything with you past this point.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;45766759]The source above shows the search.
[url]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28799627[/url]
[editline]22nd August 2014[/editline]
Right now, without looking back at the past, Russia is doing a good thing. People who lack basic essentials will have their needs fulfilled.
If the trucks are confirmed to be safe - let them fucking do that! Why the hell not?
"I am sorry Mr. Putin, we dislike you personally so we will let our people starve"- like this?[/QUOTE]
"better have dead citizens than citizens thanking Russia for saving their lives"
Governments are meant to serve the people.
better red than dead
Looking at the contents of the trucks, I gotta agree that this is a pretty minimal aid. Sure it is humanitarian aid judging by it's contents, but it won't make a big impact.
As said above, I don't think that this aid will make people forget the annexion of Crimea and firing artillery into uktrainian territory
[QUOTE=kaukassus;45766842]Looking at the contents of the trucks, I gotta agree that this is a pretty minimal aid. Sure it is humanitarian aid judging by it's contents, but it won't make a big impact.
As said above, I don't think that this aid will make people forget the annexion of Crimea and firing artillery into russian territory[/QUOTE]
I don't know why the aid is so scarce, but it wasn't supposed to make people forget anything. There are two columns - one headed to Western Ukraine (Kiyv said they dont need anything so I dont know if if the column ever went out of Russia) and one to Eastern Ukraine.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;45766882]I don't know why the aid is so scarce, but it wasn't supposed to make people forget anything. There are two columns - one headed to Western Ukraine (Kiyv said they dont need anything so I dont know if if the column ever went out of Russia) and one to Eastern Ukraine.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://wpmedia.news.nationalpost.com/2014/08/532478133.jpg?w=620[/img]
Wow ! So much help !
[img]http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-ED121_0815uk_M_20140815112634.jpg[/img]
Oh...
[QUOTE=Itsjustguy;45767026][img]http://wpmedia.news.nationalpost.com/2014/08/532478133.jpg?w=620[/img]
Wow ! So much help !
[img]http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-ED121_0815uk_M_20140815112634.jpg[/img]
Oh...[/QUOTE]
Obviously left space for Russian communist battle mechs.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;45767070]Obviously left space for Russian communist battle mechs.[/QUOTE]
Those boxes actually contain concentrated socialism.
I actually calculated a bit.
To fill up one truck full with the same content it takes 8 of those loads.
That means to make the whole column not waste money on the ride, then it would only take 15 trucks to haul the SAME CONTENTS that is in the 120 trucks.
120 trucks ( 20 liters/ 100 km ) - 2400 liters used
15 trucks ( 20 liters/ 100 km ) - 300 liters used.
Very ruff estimates since the real liters per km is 26 but i don't know the real numbers so we are lowering it.
To sum up
The column could of just used 15 trucks to haul the same content and use 2100 liters less fuel.
SAVING a total of 1497 euros.
Essentially 1497 euros were wasted to make a mockery of Russia.
Also joking about this stuff won't make it disappear. It's pretty tragic.
They said that the empty trucks were backup trucks in case something breaks.
[QUOTE=Demeschik;45767094]They said that the empty trucks were backup trucks in case something breaks.[/QUOTE]
I call bullshit. It's a farce, a show, a theater for the world to watch and laugh.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;45766327]
If it has passed customs then you one can say it does not contain the military supplies several people here speculated.[/QUOTE]
It past rebel controlled customs.
Journalists were allowed to look in some trucks and they were almost empty.
The excuse given for that was the trucks were loaded "the optimum weight for a journey of this length in these conditions" - which means either the organisers of the convoy are retarded or lying through their teeth.
Why are you so quick to defend Russia even when the facts aren't on your side?
[quote]The BBC's Steve Rosenberg noted that many of the trucks were "almost empty".[/quote]
It implies that there were full ones, too.
Later edit: Actually, it doesn't. I was wrong and jumped to conclusions too. It implies that most of them were not checked.
[QUOTE=SeamanStains;45767101]It past rebel controlled customs.
Journalists were allowed to look in some trucks and they were almost empty.
The excuse given for that was the trucks were loaded "the optimum weight for a journey of this length in these conditions" - which means either the organisers of the convoy are retarded or lying through their teeth.
Why are you so quick to defend Russia even when the facts aren't on your side?[/QUOTE]
They are the russian version of the jewish internet defense force.
[editline]22nd August 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Demeschik;45767103]It implies that there were full ones, too.[/QUOTE]
By your logic, if I get 500 bags of chips and most of them are emtpy then everything else is full !
Fuck logic, right ?
[QUOTE=SeamanStains;45767101]It past rebel controlled customs.
Journalists were allowed to look in some trucks and they were almost empty.
The excuse given for that was the trucks were loaded "the optimum weight for a journey of this length in these conditions" - which means either the organisers of the convoy are retarded or lying through their teeth.
Why are you so quick to defend Russia even when the facts aren't on your side?[/QUOTE]
Wait, what's there to attack Russia for here? What did Russia do?
"many" kind of implies a lot more than would be necessary to manage breakdowns. How many trucks are the expecting to drop out of the convoy?
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