Trump's first foreign trip destinations: Vatican City, Israel, and Saudi Arabia
28 replies, posted
[quote]Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump said Thursday his first foreign trip later this month will include visits to the Vatican, Israel, and Saudi Arabia.
These stops are in addition to Trump attending a NATO meeting in Brussels on May 25 and a G7 meeting in Italy on May 26.
"Saudi Arabia is the custodian of the two holiest sites in Islam, and it is there that we will begin to construct a new foundation of cooperation and support with our Muslim allies to combat extremism, terrorism and violence, and to embrace a more just and hopeful future for young Muslims in their countries," Trump said Thursday in announcing his trip during a Rose Garden ceremony where the he signed a religious liberty executive order.
"Our task is not to dictate to others how to live, but to build a coalition of friends and partners who share the goal of fighting terrorism and bringing safety, opportunity and stability to the Middle East," Trump said.
To date, Trump has left the foreign travel to his top aides and Cabinet members, including Vice President Mike Pence, who has been on two international trips so far, national security adviser H.R. McMaster and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson.[/quote]
[url]http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/04/politics/trump-israel-vatican-foreign-trip/index.html[/url]
"A priest, a rabbi, and an imam walk into the Oval Office..." :v:
[QUOTE]"Saudi Arabia is the custodian of the two holiest sites in Islam, and it is there that we will begin to construct a new foundation of cooperation and support with our Muslim allies to combat extremism, terrorism and violence, and [B]to embrace a more just and hopeful future for young Muslims in their countries[/B]," Trump said [/QUOTE]
Yeah by going to a place that supports extremist Muslim organisations and is one of the worst countries in the world for human rights.
Call me sceptical of his claims. Especially when he'd block Muslim people from Syria, escaping Muslim extremists.
:rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;52185809]Imagine having to justify being sceptical of Trump's actions
Are you just that optimistic or has Trump somehow become normal?[/QUOTE]
I was being half-sarcastic for the most part. Because there are people online, in America and on this forum who aren't sceptical of what Trump claims in the slightest.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;52185809]Imagine having to justify being sceptical of Trump's actions
Are you just that optimistic or has Trump somehow become normal?[/QUOTE]
The longer he is in office, the more the norm it becomes.
Traditionally the first foreign visit a new President makes is to Canada. George W was the only recent major exception (he also took three years to formally thank Canada for taking in thousands of stranded American passengers when the North American airspace was locked down during 9/11).
It's a minor detail, but it says a lot of what you can and can't expect from the Trump administration.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52185763]Yeah by going to a place that supports extremist Muslim organisations and is one of the worst countries in the world for human rights.
Call me sceptical of his claims. Especially when he'd block Muslim people from Syria, escaping Muslim extremists.
:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
damned if you do and damned if you don't.
having dialogue with countries like Saudi Arabia is a good thing, imagine if the British Govt had refused to go to Northern Ireland.
It's tiresome criticising everything he does, we get it already.
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52186140]damned if you do and damned if you don't.
having dialogue with countries like Saudi Arabia is a good thing, imagine if the British Govt had refused to go to Northern Ireland.
It's tiresome criticising everything he does, we get it already.[/QUOTE]
Better get used to it because he's sticking around for 4 years
His first visits are to the 'evil Jews' and terrorist Saudis. I'd like to see the mental gymnastics of his supporters defend that when that was exactly why they hated Clinton.
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52186140]damned if you do and damned if you don't.
having dialogue with countries like Saudi Arabia is a good thing, imagine if the British Govt had refused to go to Northern Ireland.
It's tiresome criticising everything he does, we get it already.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying to not have dialogue but to make out Saudi Arabia as the leader of moderate Islam or whatever the fuck Trump is doing is idiotic.
And for your information, the British government for a very, very long time had the completely wrong attitude towards Northern Ireland and often worsened, rather than alivated, the situation. Remember Thatcher letting the Hunger Strikers die? Remember the Falls Road incidents? Remember the fact that a certain amount of British soldiers got away with collaborating with extreme loyalists?
Remember all the Bloody Sundays?
And if you don't want to see someone criticise Trump, tough. I'd be equally critical if this was someone like Sanders or Clinton or whoever. People need to be critical - leaders can't get away with doing whatever they want.
For the record I'm just as critical often-times of the Irish government. I was disgusted to read today that [URL="https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0504/872363-saudi_human_rights/"]it's possible that we voted for Saudi Arabia for the Women's Council.[/URL]
I'm surprised [I]you[/I] aren't criticising him. After all, you're [I]so[/I] against Islamic terrorism - why wouldn't you be critical of him budding up with one of it's biggest supporters?
Oh right. Because you're a hypocrite and just want people to stop being mean to daddy Trump. :(
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52186177]
I'm surprised [I]you[/I] aren't criticising him. After all, you're [I]so[/I] against Islamic terrorism - why wouldn't you be critical of him budding up with one of it's biggest supporters?
[/QUOTE]
you make it sound like some sort of crime that I am outraged by islamic terrorism, do you think it's ok then?
why is his visit buddying up, can you elaborate?
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52186699]you make it sound like some sort of crime that I am outraged by islamic terrorism, do you think it's ok then?
why is his visit buddying up, can you elaborate?[/QUOTE]
Trump's always been buddies with Saudi businessmen, plus hes a hypocrite just as BlackMage said - banning refugees and yet ignoring the biggest sponsor of Islamic terrorism because he needs business ties with them. Though western governments have been in bed with the Saudi's for a long time
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52186699]you make it sound like some sort of crime that I am outraged by islamic terrorism, do you think it's ok then?
why is his visit buddying up, can you elaborate?[/QUOTE]
Don't try to strawman me and ignore the rest of my post because of it. Never accused you of a "crime" - I simply stated you're being a hypocrite for no apparent reason.
He's buddying up to them by making them out to be some sort of leader of the Islamic world when they very clearly shouldn't be.
[QUOTE=Crooky14;52186722]Trump's always been buddies with Saudi businessmen, plus hes a hypocrite just as BlackMage said - banning refugees and yet ignoring the biggest sponsor of Islamic terrorism because he needs business ties with them. Though western governments have been in bed with the Saudi's for a long time[/QUOTE]
he's not visiting on business, he is visiting as the US president.
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52186742]he's not visiting on business, he is visiting as the US president.[/QUOTE]
Yes because that now is his business. And as you can see he's stopping at nothing to try and fulfill his agenda
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52186731]Don't try to strawman me and ignore the rest of my post because of it. Never accused you of a "crime" - I simply stated you're being a hypocrite for no apparent reason.
He's buddying up to them by making them out to be some sort of leader of the Islamic world when they very clearly shouldn't be.[/QUOTE]
there is nothing hypocritical or strawmanning in my posts, you criticised Trump for going to S.A and I disagreed then you mentioned how critical I am of islamic terrorism as if I am wrong for doing so.
You are defensive and emotional and sometimes silly.
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52186776]there is nothing hypocritical or strawmanning in my posts, you criticised Trump for going to S.A and I disagreed then you mentioned how critical I am of islamic terrorism as if I am wrong for doing so.
You are defensive and emotional and sometimes silly.[/QUOTE]
No I never said you were wrong for being critical of Islamic terrorism, I said you were hypocritical for not criticising Trump for buddying up to a supporter of Islamic terrorism and getting annoyed at people criticising him.
You know, being defensive and emotional and very, very silly?
Leave the personal attacks out next-time if you want to do any sort of constructive discussion.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52186790]No I never said you were wrong for being critical of Islamic terrorism, I said you were hypocritical for not criticising Trump for buddying up to a supporter of Islamic terrorism and getting annoyed at people criticising him.
You know, being defensive and emotional and very, very silly?
Leave the personal attacks out next-time if you want to do any sort of constructive discussion.[/QUOTE]
constructive discussion doesn't involve strawman or hypocrite accusations when someone disagrees!
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52186803]constructive discussion doesn't involve strawman or hypocrite accusations when someone disagrees![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]you make it sound like some sort of crime that I am outraged by islamic terrorism, do you think it's ok then?
why is his visit buddying up, can you elaborate?[/QUOTE]
Then stop strawmanning.
The Saudi Arabia visit was highly expected. They're rich, love gold, and have got women's rights under their thumb. I couldn't imagine a more suitable environment for Donald Trump.
Hopefully he's going there to tell each one of them that he's watching them all VERY closely...
... but somehow I doubt it - it's more than likely the other way around.
I hope he's packed enough campaign maps :s:
It seems like the more rabidly and decisively someone claims to hate a group of people, the more likely they are to contradict themselves the moment it becomes convenient to do so.
From a recent New Yorker article
[QUOTE]By this point in George W. Bush’s term, Bush had travelled to twenty-three states and a foreign country. Trump has visited just nine states and has never stayed the night. He inhabits a closed world that one adviser recently described to me as “Fortress Trump.” Rarely venturing beyond the White House and Mar-a-Lago, he measures his fortunes through reports from friends, staff, and a feast of television coverage of himself. Media is Trump’s “drug of choice,” Sam Nunberg, an adviser on his campaign, told me recently. “He doesn’t drink. He doesn’t do drugs. His drug is himself.”[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52186819]Then stop strawmanning.[/QUOTE]
I notice that you can't elaborate on what you said choosing rather to use an accusation to hide behind.
So what is wrong with being outraged by Islamic terrorism and why should this make me hypocritical?
You have twice resorted to using a strawman accusation rather than explain your argument.
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52188786]I notice that you can't elaborate on what you said choosing rather to use an accusation to hide behind.
So what is wrong with being outraged by Islamic terrorism and why should this make me hypocritical?
You have twice resorted to using a strawman rather than explain your argument.[/QUOTE]
Being outraged by Islamic terrorism and then not being outraged by the largest state entity that is currently financially endorsing terrorism right now (Saudi Arabia).
In terms of hypocrisy on this issue, here's some of the things that it might be fair to call Trump out on:
The first foreign country visited by Trump since he became president has funded more terrorism in the world today than any other country and is seen as emblematic of the problems that arise from state-enforced fundamentalist Islam, especially when it comes to treatment of women, LGBT people and minorities.
He attempted to enforce a ban on immigrants coming from majority Islamic countries because of their supposedly incompatible value systems and then is now praising the most significant example of an Islamic country that abuses its citizens.
That kind of thing.
[QUOTE=Zyler;52188873]Being outraged by Islamic terrorism and then not being outraged by the largest state entity that is currently financially endorsing terrorism right now (Saudi Arabia).
In terms of hypocrisy on this issue, here's some of the things that it might be fair to call Trump out on:
The first foreign country visited by Trump since he became president has funded more terrorism in the world today than any other country and is seen as emblematic of the problems that arise from state-enforced fundamentalist Islam, especially when it comes to treatment of women, LGBT people and minorities.
He attempted to enforce a ban on immigrants coming from majority Islamic countries because of their supposedly incompatible value systems and then is now praising the most significant example of an Islamic country that abuses its citizens.
That kind of thing.[/QUOTE]
This is ridiculous though, maybe some good can come from Trump visiting?
The hypocrisy is moaning about Trumps actions by banning immigrants and then moaning moaning when he visits a Muslim country to have open dialogue to possibly improve the situation.
Without dialogue the situation won't be resolved.
This is just another echo chamber of Trump did, Trump said..
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52188908]This is ridiculous though, maybe some good can come from Trump visiting?
The hypocrisy is moaning about Trumps actions by banning immigrants and then moaning moaning when he visits a Muslim country to have open dialogue to possibly improve the situation.
Without dialogue the situation won't be resolved.
This is just another echo chamber of Trump did, Trump said..[/QUOTE]
You're confusing hypocrisy with consistency and consistency with hypocrisy.
There is no hypocrisy involved with pointing out the prejudice of generalizing an entire group of people but at the same time having issue with a nation that has extreme religious fundamentalism at the core of its governing laws. That's like saying it's hypocritical for me to not like nazis while at the same time believing that not all conservatives are nazis.
However, there IS hypocrisy involved with wanting to ban an entire group of people from your country because they have supposedly incompatible value systems that cannot possibly be integrated into western society, then turning around and praising the most emblematic example of that value system.
If Islamic culture wasn't as incompatible with western society as Trump's previous statements and actions indicated, then what was the point in trying to ban them from entering the country?
Going from one extreme of "Muslims are incompatible with western culture, full stop and they need to be banned" to "Saudi Arabia is a bastion of hope for a better future" is a complete 180-flip.
Modern conservatives say they hate communism, but now they like Russia even though it's president is an ex-KGB spy. They say they hate Muslims, but then they like Saudi Arabia even though it is representative of all of the worst parts of state-run fundamentalist Islamism. Do conservatives actually believe anything?
You get elected; you play ball.
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