Religion Of Christianity - General

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Why specifically Catholicism?

[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;43852600]Why specifically Catholicism?[/QUOTE] Because I am looking into becoming a catholic, but my doubts which are stated above stand in front of me and I understand religion is about faith in your God and such but I was wondering other peoples views on the subject.

[QUOTE=Pythonox;43852696]Because I am looking into becoming a catholic, but my doubts which are stated above stand in front of me and I understand religion is about faith in your God and such but I was wondering other peoples views on the subject.[/QUOTE] Well why are you seeking out Catholicism above other denominations? It's possible that you might find some of the more difficult to believe aspects of Catholicism(like transubstantiation or Marie's continued virginity after the birth of the Christ) are not present within other denominations.

I personally have no doubts that people like Jesus and Mohammad were actual people. However, whether they really were messengers/sons from god, men with brilliant ideas or simply insane I don't think we'll ever know unless we build a time machine. I solved this debate within myself long ago. As an agnostic, I believe that unless a god figure makes its presence deliberately known to the people at large, that arguments about 'is or is there not a god' are pointless, because how could we possibly know if there is a god? If there is a god, then so be it. If there isn't, that's okay. I live my life entirely without influence from the presence or lack of, of a god.

One doesnt just decide to become religious. Id recommend avoiding organized religions personally. You believe theres a god or not, but roman catholics have a lot of other rules and beliefs as well in what is a sin and not etc, what you need to do to get in to heaven, going to church, confessions and so on and so on. I grew up going to a roman catholic church. They welcome everyone if you want to go to a meeting and talk to the preacher.

[QUOTE=Rhenae;43852777]One doesnt just decide to become religious. Id recommend avoiding organized religions personally. You believe theres a god or not, but roman catholics have a lot of other rules and beliefs as well in what is a sin and not etc, what you need to do to get in to heaven, going to church, confessions and so on and so on. I grew up going to a roman catholic church. They welcome everyone if you want to go to a meeting and talk to the preacher.[/QUOTE] I haven't decided, I just took a "break" of religion due to my doubts and this way I can see other aspects. I think my problem is mostly that I don't live up to something.

[QUOTE=Pythonox;43852854]I haven't decided, I just took a "break" of religion due to my doubts and this way I can see other aspects. I think my problem is mostly that I don't live up to something.[/QUOTE] What doubts did you feel were holding you back?

[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;43852918]What doubts did you feel were holding you back?[/QUOTE] Like if God was real or how come people always say that if you pray God will help you, but at the same time we have Free Will and God can't help us.

I suggest finding your own spirituality (i.e. learning more about different belief systems) rather than just picking a religion to adhere to. Religion/spirituality should be something that is personally meaningful to you, something that your heart is into, not just a collection of someone else's dogma, rote tasks, and rituals

Why are you even looking for a religion, much less a god to believe in? Why don't you believe in yourself, giving your life to something that you're not even sure exists is one of the biggest wastes that a human can do. Believe in humanity (however horrid some things may be in the real world), don't wait around for a invisible being to make change, much less search around for one that makes you feel the most comfortable. [QUOTE=Pythonox;43852579] Apparently Jesus was a real person since scientists found the Census Of Quirinius which was a roman artifact which recorded births and Jesus' birth was linked to it.[/QUOTE] Just because a man existed and claimed to do miracles doesn't make his "miracles" any more real. There's tons of people in India and other countries that exist and claim to be able to raise the dead but that doesn't make them any more credible. And why do you feel that you have to be part of a religion? [QUOTE=Pythonox;43852579]Now I grew up in a home filled with Roman Catholics that didn't even pray for dinner, said prayers at night, or attended church[/QUOTE] I grew up in a similar environment except it was with Christians. I went to Christian schools and all that so I can kind of relate ;) [QUOTE=Pythonox;43852579]Do you think God was real?[/QUOTE] I think that the idea of a super being having existed to create the Big Bang plausible but to have a super being that changes the laws of nature everyday highly un-likely.

[QUOTE=TheAverageMan;43853368]Why are you even looking for a religion, much less a god to believe in? Why don't you believe in yourself, giving your life to something that you're not even sure exists is one of the biggest wastes that a human can do. Believe in humanity (however horrid some things may be in the real world), don't wait around for a invisible being to make change, much less search around for one that makes you feel the most comfortable. Just because a man existed and claimed to do miracles doesn't make his "miracles" any more real. There's tons of people in India and other countries that exist and claim to be able to raise the dead but that doesn't make them any more credible. And why do you feel that you have to be part of a religion? I grew up in a similar environment except it was with Christians. I went to Christian schools and all that so I can kind of relate ;) I think that the idea of a super being having existed to create the Big Bang plausible but to have a super being that changes the laws of nature everyday highly un-likely.[/QUOTE] Yeah the growing up with poorly religious people leads to confusing minds. But anyways, with your mention of the Big Bang Theory it basically comes to me as this. The Big Bang Theory says there was one atom that had to create everything but no one knew how it actually appeared or came to be. What's your take on that? Personally I believe that, our concept of creation happened after creation was non-existent. As, that atom did not HAVE to be created nor did space, because space expands by each second, space and that atom were there, building energy, to create something.

Just wanna point out that the big bang theory doesn't say anything about an atom (I don't know where you're getting that from). I think you're confusing a singularity for an atom

[QUOTE=Pythonox;43853097]Like if God was real or how come people always say that if you pray God will help you, but at the same time we have Free Will and God can't help us.[/QUOTE] Prayer is a way for us to speak directly to God, during which we may make any(literally anything, I can't stress that enough) requests that we wish and they will be listened to. Such a thing is not to be treated lightly though, reverence must be payed and the request must be made in as humble a manner as possible as you are essentially asking God to include your requests in his divine will. His will is ultimately the most important though and you must be ready to accept it whether your request is included or not. So it's not quite as simple as asking and receiving exactly what you asked for, it's rather a humble request that may be fulfilled, God willing. I am however confused as to why you think this interferes with free will.

This ended up being really long, read it you want I guess, it's basically my entire thought process on the matter; I grew up in a similar situation to you, but we went to church more often. I'm agnostic.[B]tl;dr Roman Catholicism is probably (though not necessarily) the worst Christian denomination to choose, there are much better ones. Additionally you can find community groups that don't centre around God that can provide you the same utility.[/B] If you believe in an omnipotent being, if you believe that there has to be some higher being out there, then you must understand that humanity is not infallible; I don't think there is a single world religion that says that they are infallible. Therefore you can't take the leaders of the religion and their teachings as gospel (da dun tsh), people make mistakes. What you can do is use it as guidance. You see what they are saying, you see what the religious text says and you take from it what you need. The more rigid you are in an adherence to a religion the more structure you have to your life coming from religion. You can get that structure from other things as well, it doesn't have to come from religion. Religion can be a dangerous thing. In my opinion anyone who truly follows a religion is going to end up being not that nice a person to some group (possibly Buddhism and Hinduism excepted? I'm not well versed enough to know). It's peculiar because, a lot of people don't actually follow their religion whilst believing they are. They pick and choose beliefs that suit them. For example your family which you describe as Roman Catholic I am sure did not attend every Holy Day of Obligation (every Sunday is often included). You even said you didn't go to church, did you go to mass on every Christmas? Every Ash Wednesday? If you don't you're in big trouble until you confess it and are forgiven. In my opinion this is picking and choosing your beliefs. For people who do this all religion really is is a moral compass or something to turn to when you're lost. There is nothing wrong with that, but you're still going to hell (or wherever it is you go now, I think it doesn't exist for Roman Catholicism anymore) if Roman Catholicism is the one true religion. I'm sure there are denominations of Christianity that allow more flexibility. A lot more in fact. What they become is a really good community and that can help you out when you're lost. If I were to be a religious person I would certainly not be going with Roman Catholicism. It's outdated and caught up by the secret politics in the Vatican and the conservatives that don't allow it to evolve. But the thing is, those conservatives are actually the most likely to get to heaven under current Roman Catholic teaching. But since humanity is not infallible, the huge swathes of teachings that Roman Catholicism was founded on a over the centuries and millenia, come not from holy people and prophets, but from the administrators and people behind the scenes. Councils deciding what is and isn't part of the necessary teachings from the old and new testaments. So then most of Roman Catholicism could just be wrong. It's a massive leap to take total faith in all those teachings. Most people don't, but say they're Roman Catholic anyway. My mother would say she is Roman Catholic and she goes to Church every Sunday. She still dismisses certain teachings as ridiculous. (According to her if you're gay you can fall in love with people of the same gender with the same strength that a straight person can fall in love with someone of the opposite gender, according to Catholicism that's impossible; just one example). But religion to her is very important. It helps her understand the world and what happens. For that I can say I am very grateful. Not everyone needs that. If you feel that you need that guidance and community and that it needs to be centered around God, go look into other religious denominations and other Christian denominations and choose one that really does fit with what you believe. You've got more chance of getting to heaven that way :v: My opinion is that you're probably strong enough to survive without it. If praying to God in times of trouble makes you uneasy then drop the idea, it's never going to be satisfying for you. For example I could never stand to say the Nicene Creed or Apostles Creed (whichever your local parish uses), "I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth ... I believe in this and that and blah blah", because deep down I am pretty damned skeptical, so I felt like I was lying every time, you have to be sure if you make this kind of decision or it will be a painful experience not a happy one. Look into other community groups not centred on God. Groups that centre on your ability to make the most of your own self and respect that your decisions can be the best possible without turning to God. (For me I grew up in almost the same situation as you, I'm agnostic, I don't think religion is something I'm ever going to return to, but I know some very good people who believe in God and I respect that; a lot of people don't because religion is a big a problem as it is a help.). [editline]yayformore[/editline] For evolution Roman Catholicism permits you to believe whatever you want, same with the age of the universe. So it does have a few redeeming features. But I am sure you can find another Christian denomination that has the same good parts, without the discriminatory bad parts.

[QUOTE=TheAverageMan;43853368]I think that the idea of a super being having existed to create the Big Bang plausible but to have a super being that changes the laws of nature everyday highly un-likely.[/QUOTE] I'm not usually one for religious debate (seeing as how people like to take offence at difference of opinion) But I agree with you on this specific part your argument. If there is a "super being" (which I believe for the sake of having an optimistic and grateful attitude) I would say that everything he, or it did would have to follow the laws he/it made as well, otherwise, how the hell would there be any order in the universe? As far as the supernatural tenancies people attribute to such a being, I'm willing to say that "supernatural" events are just scientific discoveries that are waiting to happen. Personally I think it is extremely bias to disregard supernatural claims as being purely religious in nature (not to say that there isn't any false claims, because there certainly are many of those). That kind of thinking is what hinders the most prominent of discovery. The greatest discoveries were made because people thought that there must be some kind of unmalleable order in the universe that makes things happen the way they do, not by dismissing gravity as impossible because it wasn't explained. Therefore I believe that what people might call a supernatural event is completely explainable, whether or not we may ever understand, I don't know.

[QUOTE=Pythonox;43853638]Yeah the growing up with poorly religious people leads to confusing minds. But anyways, with your mention of the Big Bang Theory it basically comes to me as this. The Big Bang Theory says there was one atom that had to create everything but no one knew how it actually appeared or came to be. What's your take on that? Personally I believe that, our concept of creation happened after creation was non-existent. As, that atom did not HAVE to be created nor did space, because space expands by each second, space and that atom were there, building energy, to create something.[/QUOTE] first, you have to learn what these theories really state rather than strawmanning them to make them harder to understand.

Maybe you should read the Wikipedia article before you post it. There are numerous problems with this supposed census (which isn't an "artifact," that doesn't even make sense). Read the entirety of the "The Gospel of Luke" section, which explains how the census is false. It was constructed to give Jesus a reason to be born in Bethlehem, connecting him with David and the prophecy. I don't totally discount the possible existence of an eccentric rabbi who gathered a following during the era. I find the evidence for this to be in the fakery itself, which would have been unnecessary had there been no actual person to connect with the prophecy.

Religion is a very personal thing and you youself should define it, though you shouldn't have it impede on the rights of others or try to force it on others. As for Christianity in general? The whole religion and it's sense of things start to fall apart as soon as you even start to deconstruct the concept of hell, I'd suggest treading very carefully around it.

As of right now, I can't find any actual logic in it anywhere. I have to wonder if anyone [I]seriously[/I] believes a bearded man in the sky is a god, he had a human child, he has anthropomorphic cohorts and enemies, he is all powerful yet apparently does nothing to stop evil (why doesn't he just bitch-smack satan if he hates evil so much?), [I]we could sit here all day and list off the oddities, inconsistencies, and paradoxes[/I]. I don't like all of his videos, but Darkmatter2525 does a pretty good job of pointing out the nonsense. If a religious person were to actually try to turn off their biases and look objectively at the stories, I'm sure they would find them at the very least strange as well. I think most people believe just because "what if we are wrong?". If I'm to be honest the question even bothers me at times. But then another question enters my head, "If a god gives me free will and punishes me for using it regardless, is he even benevolent or worthy of worship to begin with?" The second reason I feel most people believe is because the constant ridicule they receive at the hands of atheists only serves to make them more indignant and close minded. I would know, I used to dislike "those pretentious, douchebag atheists" as well until I matured. A bit more on-topic, I haven't seen any hard evidence Jesus, Mohammad, etc. existed, but I believe it's possible and probable they did. Whether they were anything more than men in an ignorant time period is up for debate.

Just curious, is transubstantiation an act of cannibalism?

[QUOTE=Ramirez77;43855156]I used to dislike "those pretentious, douchebag atheists" as well until I matured.[/QUOTE] I'd just like to point out that hating someone for trying to tear apart your most personal of beliefs is a perfectly natural response. It just sounds like you're implying that maturing means becoming cynical. Just FYI, I'm not trying to imply that all atheists are misanthropic toward religious people (I know quite a few atheists that I can have good conversations with about religion). Many atheists AS WELL as many religious people are "pretentious douchebags". It's a matter of the particular persons character, it just so happens that there are alot more people of poor character in the world than one's who don't get pissed easily.

[QUOTE=Pythonox;43852696]Because I am looking into becoming a catholic, but my doubts which are stated above stand in front of me and I understand religion is about faith in your God and such but I was wondering other peoples views on the subject.[/QUOTE] It's more difficult to be a Catholic then it is to be a Protestant, lad. Lots of stuff them Catholics do that we don't. If you're interested in Christianity, I'd suggest visit a couple of your local churches and see what it is they do. Or study up on the different denominations and see which ones fit you best. [editline]10th February 2014[/editline] But also don't let it impede on your own personal beliefs. As a Christian I feel I shouldn't hate gays because if Jesus loves everyone regardless of what they have done, then why should I shun someone for something they have no choice in. I'm sure it is all in God's plan.

[QUOTE=Pythonox;43853638]Yeah the growing up with poorly religious people leads to confusing minds. But anyways, with your mention of the Big Bang Theory it basically comes to me as this. The Big Bang Theory says there was one atom that had to create everything but no one knew how it actually appeared or came to be. What's your take on that? Personally I believe that, our concept of creation happened after creation was non-existent. As, that atom did not HAVE to be created nor did space, because space expands by each second, space and that atom were there, building energy, to create something.[/QUOTE] Well I for one if I were to take the idea of the Big Bang and line it up alongside idea of a God I think I would side with the Big Bang. As for what was before the Big Bang, well, I don't think I'm qualified to say that. If I did say anything then it would only be a guess, nothing more. [QUOTE=Pythonox;43853638]The Big Bang Theory says there was one atom that had to create everything but no one knew how it actually appeared or came to be.[/QUOTE] Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the idea behind it is that two particles pop in and out of existence very quickly, they are not atoms minds you (and I believe we have observed this phenomon, though once again I may be wrong), this can only happen in a total vacuum. This may be going on a tangent but, the difference between the scientists who formed this idea of the Big Bang and the difference between the religious leaders is that the scientists are ready to throw away everything if new evidence is presented. The religious leaders are the completely and utterly opposite. [QUOTE=Tosmatobeef;43855317] Many atheists AS WELL as many religious people are "pretentious douchebags". It's a matter of the particular persons character, it just so happens that there are alot more people of poor character in the world than one's who don't get pissed easily.[/QUOTE] Agreed, just because someone is an atheist doesn't immediately make them nice and likeable, the same thing applies to anyone of any group.

Catholics believe that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are the same person, while most (if not all) protestant churches they are separate beings. Also, almost every Christian Church does baptisms differently, I.E Catholics sprinkle water on your head and Mormons do Baptism by immersion into water. You should go around to other churches and see what they do during their sermons to see if you like it. As a Christian, I say you should also pray about it to make your decision.

[QUOTE=TheAverageMan;43856830]Well I for one if I were to take the idea of the Big Bang and line it up alongside idea of a God I think I would side with the Big Bang. As for what was before the Big Bang, well, I don't think I'm qualified to say that. If I did say anything then it would only be a guess, nothing more.[/QUOTE] The best part about this is that you don't have to have an answer. You can say "I don't know" and that's all you need to say. The religious, on the other hand, claim to know all that there is to know and all that matters. In fact, they must claim to be sure in their knowledge, else they risk eternal damnation.

[QUOTE=Explosions;43858280]. The religious, on the other hand, claim to know all that there is to know and all that matters. In fact, they must claim to be sure in their knowledge, else they risk eternal damnation.[/QUOTE] Of course we have doubts, where are you even drawing this from? Anyone who's thought a moment about their faith has had doubts, doubt isn't a sin.

[QUOTE=Pythonox;43852854]I haven't decided, I just took a "break" of religion due to my doubts and this way I can see other aspects. I think my problem is mostly that I don't live up to something.[/QUOTE] Did you take a break from faith or from the church? The way it reads is that you seem to have some faith, but merely took a break from organised faith. Which would make you a deist at best, agnostic at worst. And definitely not an atheist. [quote] It's a massive leap to take total faith in all those teachings. Most people don't, but say they're Roman Catholic anyway. My mother would say she is Roman Catholic and she goes to Church every Sunday. She still dismisses certain teachings as ridiculous. (According to her if you're gay you can fall in love with people of the same gender with the same strength that a straight person can fall in love with someone of the opposite gender, according to Catholicism that's impossible; just one example). [/quote] Actually catholicism holds the idea that you can love someone just as as strongly in a heterosexual or homosexual relationship. Pretty much the only tenet they hold up though is that a sexual homosexual relationship is sinful in regards to gay people. Overall the benefit of catholicism is, that it's one of the most dynamic and progressive versions of Christianity. Obviously some minor denominations are further, but it's probably one of the best off in terms of the large cults.

[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;43858359]Of course we have doubts, where are you even drawing this from? Anyone who's thought a moment about their faith has had doubts, doubt isn't a sin.[/QUOTE] It is human nature to doubt things but the conviction for what they claim/believe in far out ways the doubt (but now we are sort of sliding away from the original topic ;C) Though, I think when Explosions said that he was addressing the "spiritual leaders" of this world. They claim to be all knowing while their followers claim that they claim to be all knowing. It seems to me from observation that people who do doubt anything that is spiritual/religious related they usually dismiss it as nonsense (poppycock!?), But yeah... this is going off topic now...

[QUOTE=Mr.95;43854683]Religion is a very personal thing and you youself should define it, though you shouldn't have it impede on the rights of others or try to force it on others. As for Christianity in general? The whole religion and it's sense of things start to fall apart as soon as you even start to deconstruct the concept of hell, I'd suggest treading very carefully around it.[/QUOTE] The concept of hell isn't part of the core of Christianity. Hell was integrated on Christianity much like several other things by absorving people from different religions. It was later used as a tool to rule. You should understand that hell is against one of the main attributes of the chrisitan God that is Omnibenevolence. Hell is much more linked to how the doctrine sees what is defined by creation. But that's another thing enterily.