The German test - Poland has never been so rich, safe and free. But under Andrzej Duda its inheritan - Polidicks

[url]http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21660536-poland-has-never-been-so-rich-safe-and-free-under-andrzej-duda-its-inheritance#GOsgPpL3Gp7rXmT7.99[/url] [QUOTE]IT IS one of Europe’s shining successes. Alone in the European Union, Poland did not suffer a recession after the financial crisis. [B]Its economy has grown by 33% since 2007, compared with 2% for the euro zone. [/B]Its transport and energy infrastructure has been transformed. Poland has been a dependable partner for policymakers in Berlin, Brussels and Washington, DC. Even the French, ever suspicious of the EU’s eastern members, have started to court the country. As president of the European Council, Poland’s former prime minister, Donald Tusk, has become a central figure in European politics. Yet Poles are fed up. President Bronislaw Komorowski, of the ruling centre-right Civic Platform party, narrowly lost a re-election vote in May. The prime minister, Ewa Kopacz, is heading for a crashing defeat in parliamentary elections in October. The danger for Poles is that, in throwing out a lacklustre government, the country may revert to a narrow, mistrustful populism, forsaking its own impressive gains. Back to the Kaczynski era? The new president, Andrzej Duda (pictured), took office this week and Poland’s allies are asking which face his party, Law and Justice, will present to the world. Will it retain the sensible centrism he campaigned on? Or will it fall back into the oddball prickliness of Jaroslaw Kaczynski, the party mastermind? Mr Kaczynski, whose twin brother, Lech, was president when he died in an air crash in Russia in 2010, fared poorly as prime minister in 2006-07, unleashing an arbitrary anti-corruption campaign and pursuing an erratic foreign policy. The standard-bearer for traditional Catholic values and rural interests, Law and Justice has championed countries in the Kremlin’s shadow, such as Georgia and Ukraine. It is mistrustful of big business and—lamentably—wants to cut Poland’s retirement age. It resents outside liberal meddling on gay rights and the like. [B]But the central question will be relations with its neighbour, Germany. Mr Kaczynski has accused Germany of scheming to recover land it lost to Poland after the second world war and Angela Merkel, its chancellor, of being a pawn of the Stasi, the former East German secret police. Poland has real gripes, ranging from some German politicians’ softness on Russia to a lack of provision for ethnic Poles in Germany.[/B] Settling them calls for talks, not tantrums. Poland now outweighs Russia as a trading partner for Germany. That gives it influence—though this must be used wisely. Nothing would please Russia more than a Polish-German split. And America, which Law and Justice reveres, values close ties between Berlin and Warsaw. Poland needs its friends. It wants the NATO summit in Warsaw next summer to respond to Russian threats by permanently basing troops on the eastern edge of the alliance. In the EU it—like Britain—wants assurances that the interests of countries outside the euro, the “outs”, will be safeguarded in decision-making dominated by the “ins”. It also wants a strong EU stance against Russian machinations over gas (though, as a heavy user of coal, it drags its feet on reducing carbon emissions). German support will be vital on these fronts, and is more likely if Poland looks sensible. Poland’s big asset in the EU should be Mr Tusk. Yet, perversely, many in Law and Justice want him fired. Which course Poland takes will depend much on Mr Duda, who, as president, shares responsibility for foreign policy with the government. Born in 1972, he marks a shift in Polish politics from a generation whose outlook was forged under communism. Poles’ desire for political change is understandable, but their democracy needs two responsible parties, not just one. Mr Duda must prove he is not Mr Kaczynski’s puppet.[/QUOTE]

I didn't know Poland had it so good.

[QUOTE=TheNerdPest14;48404444]I didn't know Poland had it so good.[/QUOTE] They don't, it just didn't get worse.

[QUOTE=FalconKrunch;48404461]They don't, it just didn't get worse.[/QUOTE] What are you talking about. GDP-wise, Poland is surpassing countries like Greece and Portugal, wich have benefited from after-ww2 economic boom, whereas Poland and the rest of the gang were facing shortages and a collapsing communist state. Considering their circumstances, they made very good progress for the past 2 decades. It wasn't as extraordinary as China's development, but still, it's alright.

I know a few polish people who actually went back to poland for a better life after living in the UK, makes sense after seeing this. :what:

[QUOTE=godfatherk;48404502]What are you talking about. GDP-wise, Poland is surpassing countries like Greece and Portugal, wich have benefited from after-ww2 economic boom, whereas Poland and the rest of the gang were facing shortages and a collapsing communist state. Considering their circumstances, they made very good progress for the past 2 decades. It wasn't as extraordinary as China's development, but still, it's alright.[/QUOTE] That still doesn't mean they have it "so good". You must be talking about GDP per capita PPP, because having a larger GDP than Greece and Portugal isn't that hard, their populations are rather small. Also everyone is talking about how bad it is in Greece at the moment, being on the same level as them right now isn't that great to be honest. Sure, they are much better off than they were years before, but that doesn't mean they have it good.

[QUOTE=orcywoo6;48404525]I know a few polish people who actually went back to poland for a better life after living in the UK, makes sense after seeing this. :what:[/QUOTE] Good news all round then.

[QUOTE=Firewarrior;48404916]That still doesn't mean they have it "so good". You must be talking about GDP per capita PPP, because having a larger GDP than Greece and Portugal isn't that hard, their populations are rather small. Also everyone is talking about how bad it is in Greece at the moment, being on the same level as them right now isn't that great to be honest. Sure, they are much better off than they were years before, but that doesn't mean they have it good.[/QUOTE] I meant per capita, yes. Anyway, Poland's GDP PPP per capita is higher than any other country in Central& South America, most of Asia and most of Africa.

Poor Poland always manages to climb it way up only to be tagged teamed by its neighbors. Hopefully history doesn't repeat itself.

Whenever conservative nut job politics like Duda take seat it always means frivolous spending and populist rule, at best at least. Back when Duda's overlords were in charge, the guy who managed our education system used to belong to a highly nationalistic, anti-semitic organisation hellbent on destroying anything liberal. Or literally burning it. Today's youth either forgot how bad it used to be, or they were simply too young at that time, but conservatives here are as biggoted, single-minded and frightfully incompetent as the US ones. For some reason though most of them voted for Duda. Even fucking LGBT groups supported him, even though he's [I]against all they stand for[/I]. That's how retarded the election was. I mean for fucks sake his followers compared him to the fucking pope when he was sworn in. And this part: [QUOTE]German support will be vital on these fronts, and is more likely if Poland looks sensible. Poland’s big asset in the EU should be Mr Tusk. Yet, perversely, many in Law and Justice want him fired[/QUOTE] Kaczynski is either a master mind or a paranoid schizophrenic. Law and Justice wants EVERYONE who isn't in their party or doesn't share their beliefs stand trail. Not saying Tusk's party was all that great, but at least we had stable growth. If this young-idiots-voting-for-conservatives-because-they-don't-know-a-damn-thing-about-their-intentions shit continues we'll be back where we were 10 years ago.

The politics in this country are such a huge mess it's sad [editline]8th August 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Firewarrior;48404916]That still doesn't mean they have it "so good". You must be talking about GDP per capita PPP, because having a larger GDP than Greece and Portugal isn't that hard, their populations are rather small. Also everyone is talking about how bad it is in Greece at the moment, being on the same level as them right now isn't that great to be honest. Sure, they are much better off than they were years before, but that doesn't mean they have it good.[/QUOTE] IDK, it's not really bad either. I've been born and lived in Germany for all my life after which i moved to Poland for a few years, it's not quite as nice here but it's not worlds apart either. There are even some upsides that you don't have there.

Well, it just came out that Duda wants to change the Polish constitution to grant himself more power. He and his party could fuck up a decade of progress Poland has made. If he managed to do it, this place is fucked. And it's not a party hate kind of thing, there are parties I like and parties I dislike, but Law and Justice is so fucking incompetent and emotionally driven it's insane. Just look at the bolded text in the OP - Kaczyński is basically the embodiment of everything the party stands for, and most likely Duda's boss behind the scenes. It's just straight up fucking insane. Such instability is the last thing anybody wants to see - especially with the Russian Federation acting as it does. I just hope it's sensationalist bullshit, but at this point who can tell?

[QUOTE=Lium;48404958]Good news all round then.[/QUOTE] I too am glad all those hard working people who fill jobs and start businses are taking all that wealth and experience away from this country and not being replaced. Damn them for not taking our benefits and going home to make their country better while ours doesn't.

[QUOTE=proch;48425444]Well, it just came out that Duda wants to change the Polish constitution to grant himself more power. He and his party could fuck up a decade of progress Poland has made. If he managed to do it, this place is fucked. And it's not a party hate kind of thing, there are parties I like and parties I dislike, but Law and Justice is so fucking incompetent and emotionally driven it's insane. Just look at the bolded text in the OP - Kaczyński is basically the embodiment of everything the party stands for, and most likely Duda's boss behind the scenes. It's just straight up fucking insane. Such instability is the last thing anybody wants to see - especially with the Russian Federation acting as it does. I just hope it's sensationalist bullshit, but at this point who can tell?[/QUOTE] And I was listening to my family cheering for this man on TV... I really hope him and his party don't reverse the good economic decisions that Poland has made thus far but that's an unlikely chance. [QUOTE=Lium;48404958]Good news all round then.[/QUOTE] Yeah diversity sucks man. I wonder how the UK is fairing at the moment with the nutjobs in your parliament.

yeah everyone's worried as fuck about Duda, myself included (well, everyone who didn't vote for him, which is a staggering majority of younger people) the last time Law and Justice was in power, the whole political scene was one giant paranoid shitshow, then we got Komorowski and while he wasn't a mindblowing president he did a'ight and stuff was mostly in check (barring paranoids like Macierewicz, or crazy contrarians like Korwin-Mikke), and now everyone's worried it's gonna deteriorate back to the same bullshit we'd escaped a few years back

Excuse me but what did Komorowski/Tusk government do right exactly? Public insurance, healthcare and retirement, fucked. On the way to collapse. They only bought it time by taking the cash from OFE. Coal mines situation, fucked. Somehow it's cheaper to buy coal from china than from polish mines. Check how much taxes coal mines have to pay. For instance for every meter drilled underground. Nowhere else in the world mines have to pay that. Another thing, somehow when a Czech buys our coal mine it suddenly starts being profitable. Highway building fiasco. Not only that highway was more expensive than the highways in Germany, pretty much everyone involved in the construction is bankrupt now. They bought pendolinto trains. Great job. Too bad nothing else works and sometimes my train is late 3 HOURS, but hey we have the first class supertrain that barely anyone uses. BTW if you check train schedules now and before, they have actually made other intercity trains slower to make sure everyone knows pendolino is faster... Shale gas... forgotten. Nothing done on the matter. We got shitload of money from Euro. That's it. This is pretty much everything they've done right. I'm probably going to hate Duda. But I'm glad Komor is gone. I mean check this shit out. He has made some speech on a construction site of a beltway. The thing is there were no workers on that construction site before and after that speech. Even during the speech they just ride back and forth. [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM7dXluzlQU[/URL] I take this a personal insult because you have to think Polish people are idiots if you do shit like that as a president.

Polish people are awesome.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;48434586]Excuse me but what did Komorowski/Tusk government do right exactly? Public insurance, healthcare and retirement, fucked. On the way to collapse. They only bought it time by taking the cash from OFE. Coal mines situation, fucked. Somehow it's cheaper to buy coal from china than from polish mines. Check how much taxes coal mines have to pay. For instance for every meter drilled underground. Nowhere else in the world mines have to pay that. Another thing, somehow when a Czech buys our coal mine it suddenly starts being profitable. Highway building fiasco. Not only that highway was more expensive than the highways in Germany, pretty much everyone involved in the construction is bankrupt now. They bought pendolinto trains. Great job. Too bad nothing else works and sometimes my train is late 3 HOURS, but hey we have the first class supertrain that barely anyone uses. BTW if you check train schedules now and before, they have actually made other intercity trains slower to make sure everyone knows pendolino is faster... Shale gas... forgotten. Nothing done on the matter. We got shitload of money from Euro. That's it. This is pretty much everything they've done right. I'm probably going to hate Duda. But I'm glad Komor is gone. I mean check this shit out. He has made some speech on a construction site of a beltway. The thing is there were no workers on that construction site before and after that speech. Even during the speech they just ride back and forth. [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM7dXluzlQU[/URL] I take this a personal insult because you have to think Polish people are idiots if you do shit like that as a president.[/QUOTE] Nobody really is satisfied with PO either, but they're just incompetent instead of utterly incapable and paranoid. But yeah, the highway thing is pretty scummy. I had some insight into that fiasco, and there's no other way to put it - the government was just deliberately fucking over private companies, from what I've heard anyway.

[QUOTE=proch;48435261]Nobody really is satisfied with PO either, but they're just incompetent instead of utterly incapable and paranoid. But yeah, the highway thing is pretty scummy. I had some insight into that fiasco, and there's no other way to put it - the government was just deliberately fucking over private companies, from what I've heard anyway.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it's pretty sad. I have a hard time deciding what's worse, incompetent "everything is fine" thieves or paranoid "russians killed our president" conservatives. I'm just really hoping that Duda's going to play this for his own name instead of being a puppet.