Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Mazda and Mitsubishi have joined the growing list of manufacturers whose diesel cars are known to emit significantly more pollution on the road than in regulatory tests, according to data obtained by the Guardian.
In more realistic on-road tests, some Honda models emitted six times the regulatory limit of NOx pollution while some unnamed 4x4 models had 20 times the NOx limit coming out of their exhaust pipes.
[URL="http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/oct/09/mercedes-honda-mazda-mitsubishi-diesel-emissions-row?CMP=twt_gu"]Source[/URL]
america once again the only car manufacturer worth anything
Dodge Ram once again proving itself on the market.
Meanwhile, based Opel does literaly zero polution, and isn't a copy paste brand like vw-seat-skoda
Good to see BMW staying away from the bullshit.
Good on them.
this is a big deal. I wonder how it will impact the car world?
[QUOTE=kweh;48866865]Meanwhile, based Opel does literaly zero polution, and isn't a copy paste brand like vw-seat-skoda[/QUOTE]
Hate to break it to you, but all Opel is is General Motors' European brand. They design many of their own vehicles like Pontiac back in the day, but many of them are just Chevrolet with the bodywork and badges replaced.
[QUOTE=Judas;48866691]america once again the only car manufacturer worth anything[/QUOTE]
This news doesn't mean that other manufacturers are not doing it, it just says that four more are allegedly doing the same as VW.
From what I read, these car makers are not cheating like VW has done but they can't reproduce the same numbers as they could in the EU test, so wouldn't this be an issue with the test rather than the cars?
Given how overzealous diesel emission regulations can be, this is not surprising. Maybe it's time to stop scapegoating passenger vehicles as one of biggest causes of pollution when it is, in practice, insignificant compared to industrial emissions, both due to quantity and type of pollution.
This media circus is way out of proportion, I didn't see this much of a shitstorm when some Honda models were basically flipping themselves over out there. I'd argue that that's far more drastic and relevant to the consumer than NOx emissions, especially considering that the sort of people who find emissions a priority when choosing their vehicle are probably not driving a diesel but rather a Nissan Leaf, a Prius (ironically) or, if they can afford it, a Tesla.
[QUOTE=Saber15;48866932]Hate to break it to you, but all Opel is is General Motors' European brand. They design many of their own vehicles like Pontiac back in the day, but many of them are just Chevrolet with the bodywork and badges replaced.[/QUOTE]
Oh I know that. It's just that usually people have that idea of Audi, for example, being SEEEUUU FAAAANCIIII, when in reality, its more or less just a rebadged VW.
Opel on the other hand is that one company that mostly has meh cars, but thats ok, because the company that shits them out is usually full of meh vehicles aswell. (excluding high performance GM based stuff)
People shit on companies for having 9001 shitty cars in their line up, but they do it to not only fund themselves, but also to fund the high end sports cars we all like. It also "balances out," as in you have a shitty but really efficient car that can make up for the fun but guzzling sports car.
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;48867003]Given how overzealous diesel emission regulations can be, this is not surprising. Maybe it's time to stop scapegoating passenger vehicles as one of biggest causes of pollution when it is, in practice, insignificant compared to industrial emissions, both due to quantity and type of pollution.
This media circus is way out of proportion, I didn't see this much of a shitstorm when some Honda models were basically flipping themselves over out there. I'd argue that that's far more drastic and relevant to the consumer than NOx emissions, especially considering that the sort of people who find emissions a priority when choosing their vehicle are probably not driving a diesel but rather a Nissan Leaf, a Prius (ironically) or, if they can afford it, a Tesla.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Most people that pick diesels (here in Portugal at least) all pick them because of consumptions being lower than their petrol twins.
Still, I hate those assholes who reprogram their ECU's and turn their Ibizas into smoke bombs.
They fart out so much smoke, that it looks like an evil cartoon factory that produces smoke as its actual product.
fuck this gay earth
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Meme Reply" - rilez))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=old_hag12;48866879]Good to see BMW staying away from the bullshit.
Good on them.[/QUOTE]
Or they haven't come forward/been caught yet.
I hope they're not though. I've always had higher respect for BMW over VW/Audi or Mercedes.
Still. It's interesting that we haven't had any issues with American motor companies yet. Especially since I've seen quite a few American diesel trucks on the roads that could probably easily flunk the regulatory tests. Unless trucks get a free pass for some reason. Or these tests only apply to cars, not trucks.
Interesting that Honda and Mazda are up there as well. Especially Mazda, considering they were once owned by Ford and shared a lot of the same models. Makes me wonder if some of the diesel vehicles that Mazda made that flunked these tests might be old enough to link back to Ford.
[QUOTE=morky;48867090]fuck this gay earth[/QUOTE]
Literally, fuck the earth, we're making money :v:
[QUOTE=Saber15;48866932]Hate to break it to you, but all Opel is is General Motors' European brand. They design many of their own vehicles like Pontiac back in the day, but many of them are just Chevrolet with the bodywork and badges replaced.[/QUOTE]
Other way round, most current GM cars are based on Opel platforms, and GM cars that aren't on Opel platforms are usually on Holden or Daewoo platforms.
Opel doesn't sell any GM cars except the rebadged Chevy Volt, any other shared cars are rebadged Opels.
[QUOTE=Rahu X;48867218]Or they haven't come forward/been caught yet.
I hope they're not though. I've always had higher respect for BMW over VW/Audi or Mercedes.
Still. It's interesting that we haven't had any issues with American motor companies yet. Especially since I've seen quite a few American diesel trucks on the roads that could probably easily flunk the regulatory tests. Unless trucks get a free pass for some reason. Or these tests only apply to cars, not trucks.
Interesting that Honda and Mazda are up there as well. Especially Mazda, considering they were once owned by Ford and shared a lot of the same models. Makes me wonder if some of the diesel vehicles that Mazda made that flunked these tests might be old enough to link back to Ford.[/QUOTE]
From what I understand, BMW had a difficult time releasing their diesil cars in America. They are some of the best cars in Europe but they could never meet US standards.
It all makes sense now.
[QUOTE=old_hag12;48867471]From what I understand, BMW had a difficult time releasing their diesil cars in America. They are some of the best cars in Europe but they could never meet US standards.
It all makes sense now.[/QUOTE]
hmm, Ford makes a diesel version of every car they sell but only the trucks get the diesel version in america...
[QUOTE=meppers;48867928]hmm, Ford makes a diesel version of every car they sell but only the trucks get the diesel version in america...[/QUOTE]
Yeah, pretty sure the truck standards are looser
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;48867003]Given how overzealous diesel emission regulations can be, this is not surprising. Maybe it's time to stop scapegoating passenger vehicles as one of biggest causes of pollution when it is, in practice, insignificant compared to industrial emissions, both due to quantity and type of pollution.
This media circus is way out of proportion, I didn't see this much of a shitstorm when some Honda models were basically flipping themselves over out there. I'd argue that that's far more drastic and relevant to the consumer than NOx emissions, especially considering that the sort of people who find emissions a priority when choosing their vehicle are probably not driving a diesel but rather a Nissan Leaf, a Prius (ironically) or, if they can afford it, a Tesla.[/QUOTE]
Passenger vehicles are one of the biggest causes of pollution, and they are the biggest cause of smog in urban areas. It's a problem with how the tests are designed rather than how overzealous they are. It's also a problem of an extremely competitive market (not that that's the problem) where people want miracle cars that simultaneously have super low emissions, super high fuel economy, are can go from 0 to 60 in under 5 seconds. In a car which weighs a lot because of features and crash safety.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;48868065]Passenger vehicles are one of the biggest causes of pollution[/QUOTE]
"One of the biggest" when, overall, passenger vehicle emissions in modern 96+(OBD2) vehicles contribute thousands of times less emissions in comparison to commercial/industrial pollutants?
Let's keep in mind that this doesn't necessarily mean they cheated. As long as they're not selectively turning something on for the test (like VW did), they're merely legally complying with a lab test that was obviously nothing like the real world. That's on the regulatory system, in my opinion (though obviously car manufacturers could lobby that to hell and back).
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;48868146]"One of the biggest" when, overall, passenger vehicle emissions in modern 96+(OBD2) vehicles contribute thousands of times less emissions in comparison to commercial/industrial pollutants?[/QUOTE]
It's literally the second biggest factor in places like the United States, only behind electricity generation. Yes a lot of that comes from older cars only meeting older tests, but that's not to say their can't be room for improvement, because their certainly is, as hybrids have already proved.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;48868668]It's literally the second biggest factor in places like the United States, only behind electricity generation. Yes a lot of that comes from older cars only meeting older tests, but that's not to say their can't be room for improvement, because their certainly is, as hybrids have already proved.[/QUOTE]
Hybrids are good in emissions, but a Prius, for instance, makes the same environmental damage before it leaves the factory as an SUV does in 20 years of road use... Hybrids haven't really proved anything except their own hopelessness. Unless you're only buying it for how "green" it is, and ignorantly so, you're paying for an overpriced car that isn't really that good. It's slow, not very high quality, and some diesel vehicles manage to surpass it in economy, for a cheaper price. Either do it properly and go full electric or don't bother, and even those cause a heck of a footprint in manufacturing. Unless you're doing the high-performance hybrid thing like the McLaren P1, etc, but that's not the same at all.
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;48869318]Hybrids are good in emissions, but a Prius, for instance, makes the same environmental damage before it leaves the factory as an SUV does in 20 years of road use... Hybrids haven't really proved anything except their own hopelessness. Unless you're only buying it for how "green" it is, and ignorantly so, you're paying for an overpriced car that isn't really that good. It's slow, not very high quality, and some diesel vehicles manage to surpass it in economy, for a cheaper price. Either do it properly and go full electric or don't bother, and even those cause a heck of a footprint in manufacturing. Unless you're doing the high-performance hybrid thing like the McLaren P1, etc, but that's not the same at all.[/QUOTE]
Prius' are environmentally bad during production yes, but that's not to say that it's the same for all hybrids. IIRC the Prius is manufactured over something like four continents - the body and chassis in one, combustion engine in another, batteries in yet another etc. a much-more localised manufacturing process could reduce that footprint, and flywheel mechanical energy storage instead of chemical batteries for the regenerative braking system can further reduce the footprint of mild hybrids. Or they could do something like what Mazda does with I-eLoop.
Hybrids aren't really that great, battery EVs are the way to go. The batteries can be recycled almost entirely. Once the cost comes down a bit in a couple of years there's little reason to buy an ICE or Hybrid car of similar cost and style.
[QUOTE=Morgen;48869503]Hybrids aren't really that great, battery EVs are the way to go. The batteries can be recycled almost entirely. Once the cost comes down a bit in a couple of years there's little reason to buy an ICE or Hybrid car of similar cost and style.[/QUOTE]
Hybrids may not be a great choice, but IMO they were a necessary step for the general public to really look at full EV's.
Honda makes diesels? News to me
[QUOTE=kweh;48866865]Meanwhile, based Opel does literaly zero polution, and isn't a copy paste brand like vw-seat-skoda[/QUOTE]
Opel is Holden in Australia
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
