Netherlands saying its okay for the Dutch No Surrender Motorclub members to kill ISIS insurgents.
38 replies, posted
[QUOTE]
[IMG]http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/Dwxq9O3fRae_18TEnPKxLg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTM3NztweG9mZj01MDtweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz02NzA-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/afp.com/1898121534a85e10e4f35d25aa6c2804426a12c1.jpg[/IMG]
The Hague (AFP) - The Dutch public prosecutor said on Tuesday that motorbike gang members who have reportedly joined Kurds battling the Islamic State group in Iraq are not necessarily committing any crime."Joining a foreign armed force was previously punishable, now it's no longer forbidden," public prosecutor spokesman Wim de Bruin told AFP.
"You just can't join a fight against the Netherlands," he told AFP after reports emerged that Dutch bikers from the No Surrender gang were fighting IS insurgents alongside Kurds in northern Iraq.
The head of No Surrender, Klaas Otto, told state broadcaster NOS that three members who travelled to near Mosul in northern Iraq were from Dutch cities Amsterdam, Rotterdam and Breda.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://news.yahoo.com/netherlands-says-ok-biker-gangs-fight-islamic-state-155136559.html"]Source[/URL]
I'd be worried about potentially empowering neo-nazis
RIP ISIS.
Pieces, that is, not peace.
I hope they live to tell their stories.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;46233342]I'd be worried about potentially empowering neo-nazis[/QUOTE]
Motorcycle gangs are generally pretty bro, at least over here.
[QUOTE=Crimor;46233402]Motorcycle gangs are generally pretty bro, at least over here.[/QUOTE]
not to generalize, (and this is just my american bias) but at face value, when I hear motorcycle gangs and anything related to muslims, I assume some of them want to fight ISIS not because of a sense of decency towards the world, but out of hatred to all muslims in general, and not just isis
Don't think I've ever seen a bonehead bike gang member unless they kept it to themselves, used to go to a gym filled with HA's too.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;46233417]not to generalize, (and this is just my american bias) but at face value, when I hear motorcycle gangs and anything related to muslims, I assume some of them want to fight ISIS not because of a sense of decency towards the world, but out of hatred to all muslims in general, and not just isis[/QUOTE]
It's no American bias, it's religious bias. You're the one with the discrimination problem here, not the bikers mate. What a twist.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;46233417]not to generalize, (and this is just my american bias) but at face value, when I hear motorcycle gangs and anything related to muslims, I assume some of them want to fight ISIS not because of a sense of decency towards the world, but out of hatred to all muslims in general, and not just isis[/QUOTE]
It's like hunting season for people like that. I'm not saying all bikers are like that either, met a few in bars over time and such and seemed like decent enough guys, but I can't speak for all of them.
I've never met a (traditional) biker I don't like. A lot of the younger guys are huge pricks, though.
Christ, this has to be one of the most ridiculous wars in history.
It's literally attracting fighters from [b]across the globe[/b] to rumble down under in a single location. Syria and Iraq are going to be nothing but dust and rusty rebar by the time this fucking thing is over.
Motorcycle Gangs or Motorcycle clubs?
[QUOTE=Teddybeer;46233488]With the shit they pull off I don't want to have them living next to me. Drugs, inter gang fights and weapons is a common thing.[/QUOTE]
Are you sure you're not thinking of Hollywood? Several people from my work are in a motorcycle gang, it's pretty cool. They're actually really nice guys.
[QUOTE=Doozle;46233870]Motorcycle Gangs or Motorcycle clubs?[/QUOTE]
'motorclub' sounds far less threatening
[QUOTE=proboardslol;46233417]not to generalize, (and this is just my american bias) but at face value, when I hear motorcycle gangs and anything related to muslims, I assume some of them want to fight ISIS not because of a sense of decency towards the world, but out of hatred to all muslims in general, and not just isis[/QUOTE]
You are generalizing, also according to the front page [url=http://nosurrendermc.nl/]their website[/url], they have a new chapter in Turkey.
[QUOTE=Doozle;46233870]Motorcycle Gangs or Motorcycle clubs?[/QUOTE]
Looked into it, they are indeed an outlaw biker gang.
Biker gangs are for the most part p chill, it's usually just a bunch of guys who want to ride their bikes together. There's a reason the dangerous ones are called 1%'ers.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;46233417]not to generalize, (and this is just my american bias) but at face value, when I hear motorcycle gangs and anything related to muslims, I assume some of them want to fight ISIS not because of a sense of decency towards the world, but out of hatred to all muslims in general, and not just isis[/QUOTE]
You realize that they are fighting on the kurds side right? And that Kurds are mostly muslim?
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;46234104]You realize that they are fighting on the kurds side right? And that Kurds are mostly muslim?[/QUOTE]
I'm living in Turkey and i know what is going on there. You can't make a correct judgement from USA. You know that most of the news are manipulated by television companies etc.
I'm not a ISIS fanatic or another shit groups fanatic but i must say that ISIS is not fighting against innocent Kurds, they are fighting against YPG-PKK (which a designated terrorist organisation)
ISIS is evil as shit but PKK is as same as them, don't forget this and don't support a terrorist organisation.
If ISIS' fight is against innocent people, then you are right. Btw i'm sorry for innocent casualties.
Personally, let both terrorist groups kill each other, and let America [B]"bring the peace"[/B] lol.
[QUOTE=lordbritish;46234292]I'm living in Turkey and i know what is going on there. You can't make a correct judgement from USA. You know that most of the news are manipulated by television companies etc.
I'm not a ISIS fanatic or another shit groups fanatic but i must say that ISIS is not fighting against innocent Kurds, they are fighting against YPG-PKK (which a designated terrorist organisation)
ISIS is evil as shit but PKK is as same as them, don't forget this and don't support a terrorist organisation.
If ISIS' fight is against innocent people, then you are right. Btw i'm sorry for innocent casualties.
Personally, let both terrorist groups kill each other, and let America [B]"bring the peace"[/B] lol.[/QUOTE]
relax guy, all he said was the kurds are muslim too, responding to the guy saying that the bikers just want to kill muslims
[QUOTE=Crimor;46233402]Motorcycle gangs are generally pretty bro, at least over here.[/QUOTE]
I'm unfortunately in a position to claim that those people are anything BUT bro. I've been more intimately involved with the biker gang scene, a friend of mine wanted to join and I tagged along most of the time. Another of our friends had been a full-on member at this point. We went to a lot of private and open biker meetings and knew a lot of the guys very closely. I also did a lot of research on the subject, biographies of influential members and ex members but also the reports of undercover cops. Both sides write with a good deal of bias and the truth lies in between. I wanted to see for myself.
Biker guys often appear VERY [I]bro[/I] and [I]chill[/I], generally open and approachable to regular people. You can even party with them, hang out with them. But once you stick around for a while, you get to see that there's more to that easy going bike riding attitude. Politics mostly.
When everything started out, the club we hung out with was a small, local bunch of dudes that didn't want any trouble from anyone and nothing to do with the rivalry of other clubs. But politics are everything in the world of biker gangs. Wear the wrong patch in the wrong place on your clothing in the wrong area can get you into REAL trouble. It's silly things that mean life and death to those people but there is more to it. A few of those "silly" things got that little club into big trouble with a big club and there was no end to it. Insignia were banned, conditions were made and a few people got hurt. Some of the members were too proud to just keep on doing their thing without the patches and the name and so it kept on going. To me it just seemed like the big clubs would just make up whatever rule they liked in order to recruit members of other clubs under the threat of outlawing or disbanding them. In the end, they were allowed to stay around, supporting the business of a larger MC of considerable notoriety. That was when the mood changed and new, scary people started showing up. The meetings had a growing sense of secrecy, the conversations were not about casual things anymore, but business, politics and a lot of whispered talk was made behind closed doors. Political topics came up more frequently, mostly far right to downright nazi talk. While that seemed like the personal attitude of certain members while others were pretty indifferent the higher up members certainly encouraged thoughts and behavior from that direction. Packages and money exchanged hands and everything got really dark. I didn't like what I overheard, among themselves, in the meetings and when doing "business" those people were not chill and bro at all. When an even bigger club started enrolling the former members of the small, local bunch things got downright scary. That's when we bailed. There were new faces, everything was about politics and businesses, mostly protection and brothels. Some small time drug businesses but we as non-members never got to see the secret stuff and I shudder to think what that was all about. The general impression I got from the people I met and the knowledge I gathered was a frightening one. Those people have a criminal agenda and are prone to violence. The bigger clubs try to control the smaller clubs and there is not a single sign of freedom and peaceful motorcycling. Its politics, rules and power. I never want to have anything to do with biker gangs again and I don't know what became of the one guy who was a member but he used to tell some really scary stuff in the beginning before he wouldn't tell a thing anymore.
I'll go ahead and say that biker gangs have been known to do stuff like that to shape their public image but they are not out to help anyone other than their own profit and power.
[QUOTE=dai;46233955]'motorclub' sounds far less threatening[/QUOTE]
They're in a large part just geniune motorclubs.
They're definitely not gangs like the ones in NYC (remember the Range Rover incident?)
Sure some members are involved in drugdealing etc, but there's also some people in church who are involved in drugdealing and you wouldn't say the church is a criminal organisation.
Honestly, for example the Dutch Hells Angels are cool guys. They threw a massive free "Meet the Angels" party, and had inflatable childrens toys, air castles and a fucking free BBQ
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnDHNIa8V1M[/media]
[QUOTE=urbanmonkey;46234388]relax guy, all he said was the kurds are muslim too, responding to the guy saying that the bikers just want to kill muslims[/QUOTE]
my comment was to all this topic actually, im already relaxed.
[QUOTE=lordbritish;46234292]I'm living in Turkey and i know what is going on there. You can't make a correct judgement from USA. You know that most of the news are manipulated by television companies etc.
I'm not a ISIS fanatic or another shit groups fanatic but i must say that ISIS is not fighting against innocent Kurds, they are fighting against YPG-PKK (which a designated terrorist organisation)
ISIS is evil as shit but PKK is as same as them, don't forget this and don't support a terrorist organisation.
If ISIS' fight is against innocent people, then you are right. Btw i'm sorry for innocent casualties.
Personally, let both terrorist groups kill each other, and let America [B]"bring the peace"[/B] lol.[/QUOTE]
how can you be sure that your media isnt biased as well with regards to kurds?
unlike you guys we haven't been at war with the kurds for the past 30-some-odd years so I would argue that there is probably less bias on our end than yours
They're not saying it's "okay". There's just no law against it.
The intelligence service is probably going to be all over their shit for years.
This is one of the guys who is said to be from a biker gang, simply "Ron", with a peshmerga somewhere in Iraqi Kurdistan, possibly near the Mosul lines. The head of the gang as mentioned in the OP said that they had three of their members in that area so it's probably one of them.
[img]http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BziUANJCMAADvRW.jpg[/img]
via [url=https://twitter.com/KoerdenNL/status/520328498632986624]Twitter[/url] (it's this picture that sparked the mess)
Edit: With regards to above these peshmerga aren't the PKK or its affiliated PYD/YPG in Syria. They are two different Kurdish outfits, the peshmerga are controlled by the Kurdistan Regional Government in Iraq but in practice dominated by the two main Kurdish parties there, the KDP and PUK. The Netherlands is among the nations who've promised to support the peshmerga too, so they're already involved in an official capacity there.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;46234741]how can you be sure that your media isnt biased as well with regards to kurds?
unlike you guys we haven't been at war with the kurds for the past 30-some-odd years so I would argue that there is probably less bias on our end than yours[/QUOTE]
We are not talking about kurds, we are talking about a "designated terrorist organisation", do you know the meaning of it?
You must read and understand what i said. We are not at war with kurds, war is a thing that happens between 2 different countries or sides, we are just fighting against terrorism and organisations.
I hope someone throws molotov cocktails into your school or bus, and gets your girlfriend or a family member burned, and tries to tear your country apart, then you will understand.
We are not talking about a bias or shit here. I'm not being racist. This conversation is on a terrorism subject(PKK), im not specifiying a RACE brother. You got this right?
Oh and i did not say that our media is correct, all type of media and television company is under control of bigger powers so they do what they told to do(corrupt), im just saying i am closer to that region so i can get information but you just can not see things clearly from United Fucking States (way far from here, you know).
[QUOTE=lordbritish;46236528]we are not talking about kurds, we are talking about a "designated terrorist organisation", do you know the meaning of it? You must read and understand what i said. We are not at war with kurds, war is a thing happens between 2 countries or sides, we are just fighting against terrorism and organisations. I hope someone throws molotov cocktails into your school or bus, and gets your girlfriend or a family member burned, and tries to tear your country apart, then you will understand. We are not talking about a bias or shit, im not being racist, as i said A TERROR ORGANISATION, im not specifiying a RACE brother. You got this right?[/QUOTE]
the only reason the US lists them as a terrorist org is because it would strain relationships with turkey to delist them. there are americans actively trying to get them delisted. the airstrikes against ISIS are aidng the PKK
I just want to see a video of these guys basically driving pass a ISIS outpost or group and basically gunning them down.
[QUOTE=urbanmonkey;46236555]the only reason the US lists them as a terrorist org is because it would strain relationships with turkey to delist them. there are americans actively trying to get them delisted. the airstrikes against ISIS are aidng the PKK[/QUOTE]
So do you support a terrorist organisation too?
And who is this guy called "draugur" votes dumb all my posts? Come and discuss like a man don't be a pussy.
Btw, let me tell you about your very lovely kurd brothers, they throw molotov cocktails all the day, attack to the police, attack to the innocent citizens, all kind of evil shit but when isis comes, they can't go to kobani to help their kurd brothers, they keep molotiving our busses :v: god, what a prideful race.
Lordbritish, why are you bringing the PKK into this? These dutch guys are fighting with the peshmerga in Iraq, not the YPG in Syria. They're controlled by completely different political groups.
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