Obama, urging gun control, says 'shame on us' if people forget Newtown victims - Polidicks

[QUOTE]WASHINGTON - An emotional Barack Obama urged U.S legislators on Thursday to remember the victims of the mass shooting in Connecticut three months ago, saying "shame on us if we've forgotten" the 20 youngsters massacred by a young man with an assault rifle. At the White House appearance, the president — surrounded by the mothers of the Connecticut shooting victims — called on Americans to pressure lawmakers into backing gun control initiatives currently making their way to the Senate floor. Obama expressed astonishment that so soon after December's slaughter at an elementary school in Newton, Conn., there appeared to be fading political will to tackle gun control. "That's not who we are," he said. "Less than 100 days ago that happened ... and the entire country pledged we would do something about it and this time would be different. Shame on us if we've forgotten .... I haven't forgotten those kids." Obama urged lawmakers: "Don't get squishy." "What we're proposing is not radical, it's not taking away anyone's gun rights, it's something that if we are serious, we will do.... Now's the time to turn that heartbreak into something real." Obama had barely finished speaking when a Republican senator emerged to illustrate the very resistance that is confronting the president's efforts to push meaningful gun control measures through Congress. Utah's Mike Lee reiterated his pledge to filibuster Obama's gun control proposals along with fellow Republicans Rand Paul and Ted Cruz. "The proposals the president is calling for Congress to pass would primarily serve to reduce the constitutionally protected rights of law-abiding citizens while having little or no effect on violent crime," Lee said in a statement. "It is deeply unfortunate that he continues to use the tragedy at Newtown as a backdrop for pushing legislation that would have done nothing to prevent that horrible crime." Obama made his White House remarks as investigators in Connecticut released details of the stunning cache of weapons and ammunition they recovered at the home shared by Adam Lanza, the perpetrator of the Newtown shooting, and his mother, who was also gunned down by her son last December. "These weapons were legally purchased under our current laws," Connecticut Gov. Dannel Malloy said following the release of the details of police search warrants. "I don’t know what more we can need to know before we take decisive action to prevent gun violence. The time to act is now." Also recovered from the Lanza home: a book entitled "The NRA Guide to the Basics of Pistol-Shooting" and two NRA certificates bearing Ryan and Nancy Lanza's names. The National Rifle Association, a powerful lobby group that contributes significant funding to the campaigns of lawmakers, claimed Thursday that the police records are false. "There is no record of a member relationship between Newtown killer Adam Lanza, nor between Nancy Lanza, A. Lanza or N. Lanza with the National Rifle Association," the organization said in a statement. "Reporting to the contrary is reckless, false and defamatory." The NRA has long insisted it merely advocates for the Second Amendment rights of average American citizens. In recent years, however, there's been increasing evidence that the lobby group receives funding from gun manufacturers and private security firms. Gun control is a hot-button issue in the United States, the most heavily armed nation on Earth. There are estimated 300 million guns in circulation, with at least one firearm in as many as 45 per cent of the nation's homes. [/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Obama+urging+control+says+shame+forget+Newtown+victims/8165620/story.html#ixzz2OvEIvyWw"]Source[/URL]

Thought we had put the event behind us just for the News to pick it backup. Or it's a scapegoat for the what-seems-to-be-failing supreme court and LGBT rights.

Missing the point 101 is now in session. Seriously, can we stop acting like guns are what's causing people to do crazy things?

[QUOTE=dogmachines;40080724]Missing the point 101 is now in session. Seriously, can we stop acting like guns are what's causing people to do crazy things?[/QUOTE] im holding a gun right now, isn't doing anyt- HEY GOING OUT TO GO KILL SOME PEOPLE BRB

[QUOTE=CubeManv2;40080732]im holding a gun right now, isn't doing anyt- HEY GOING OUT TO GO KILL SOME PEOPLE BRB[/QUOTE] I can hear my rifles calling for the blood of innocents. I don't know how long I can resist it. If only I had bought something without a pistol grip!

Please dont fucking introduce another black market in America.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;40080724]Seriously, can we stop acting like guns are what's causing people to do crazy things?[/QUOTE]tackling the real problem takes too much effort and money

You're all wrong. Guns are part of the problem. Adam Lanza was NRA certified for christ sake Although i dont give half a shit about mag size or babykiller polymer ASSAULT TOOLS OF 9/11 PROPORTION, we ABSOLUTELY need comprehensive background checks. Yes then it will largen the black market a bit, but these killers BARELY if ever obtained their gun illegaly, and I'd even go as far as to say [B]The fact that it's so easy to legally obtain a firearm in their mental state is what encourages them to kill.[/B]

[QUOTE=Milkdairy;40080910]You're all wrong. Guns are part of the problem. Adam Lanza was NRA certified for christ sake Although i dont give half a shit about mag size or babykiller polymer ASSAULT TOOLS OF 9/11 PROPORTION, we ABSOLUTELY need comprehensive background checks. Yes then it will largen the black market a bit, but these killers BARELY if ever obtained their gun illegaly, and I'd even go as far as to say [B]The fact that it's so easy to legally obtain a firearm in their mental state is what encourages them to kill.[/B][/QUOTE] So naturally it's not the things that put them in that mental state that we should go after. What do you mean by "comprehensive background checks". Buying a firearm already means that you have to submit to a background check.

We should just employ the thought police and prevent these madmen from ever getting guns in the first place!

Hey people, you ever think that the fucking shooter was to blame for his own actions? Crazy idea, right?

[QUOTE=dogmachines;40080926]So naturally it's not the things that put them in that mental state that we should go after. What do you mean by "comprehensive background checks". Buying a firearm already means that you have to submit to a background check.[/QUOTE] Not sure on this but I believe those background checks only cover criminal records. Of course I never dismissed the fact that we need to be after the root problem, but yoh cannot simply dismiss that they are either obtaining these weapons through due process somehow or getting it from someone else, and that really needs to be fixed too. it should be worth noting Mr Lanza attended the elementary school he shot up, and it amazes me this is not being investigated.

[QUOTE=Milkdairy;40080987]it should be worth noting Mr Lanza attended the elementary school he shot up, and it amazes me this is not being investigated.[/QUOTE] Do you really think anyone gives a shit? This guy did a absolutely horrible thing, and now politicians everywhere are going to utilize it for what it's worth. They don't care about getting all the facts, just enough to sway enough people their way.

[QUOTE=Killerelf12;40081038]Do you really think anyone gives a shit? This guy did a absolutely horrible thing, and now politicians everywhere are going to utilize it for what it's worth. They don't care about getting all the facts, just enough to sway enough people their way.[/QUOTE] Well, then why would anyone care about the root problem either? You did mention that, did you not? I think we can both agree the media and lobbies could not give a quarter of a shit if they tried, but that doesn't mean it's not worth pointing it out

Guns clearly aren't the root of the problem, but it's seriously ignorant to think that guns do nothing wrong and aren't part of the problem either. They are weapons designed to hurt people, not a recreational tool as most gun enthusiasts and hoarders claim it to be.

[QUOTE=Aphtonites;40081090]Guns clearly aren't the root of the problem, but it's seriously ignorant to think that guns do nothing wrong and aren't part of the problem either. They are weapons designed to hurt people, not a recreational tool as most gun enthusiasts and hoarders claim it to be.[/QUOTE] They aren't so heavily defended as a "recreational tool", so much as a means of self-defense. Which we have the right to. Framing the argument as "Why the hell do we need these baby killing assault rifles just so you can shoot animals and shit" is backwards and misses the point of the second amendment in it's entirety. The problem most people have with banning "assault rifles" is that it increases their anti-gun movement and is another step in banning all guns, and that banning 'assault rifles' will have virtually no effect on crime.

jesus fuck no, stop fucking blaming it on guns guns are fun and stuff, 99.99% of people use them for their own personal fun the fucking 0.01% who do shit are mentally disturbed and shouldnt even be near guns

[QUOTE=dogmachines;40080724]Missing the point 101 is now in session. Seriously, can we stop acting like guns are what's causing people to do crazy things?[/QUOTE] They make it a whole lot easier for people to do crazy things

[QUOTE=dogmachines;40080724]Seriously, can we stop acting like guns are what's causing people to do crazy things?[/QUOTE] [quote=The Economist]If America is ever to confront its obsession with guns, that time is now. America’s murder rate is four times higher than Britain’s and six times higher than Germany’s. Only an idiot, or an anti-American bigot prepared to maintain that Americans are four times more murderous than Britons, could possibly pretend that no connection exists between those figures and the fact that 300m guns are “out there” in the United States, more than one for every adult.[/quote]

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40081553][/QUOTE] I'll just make the same statement that everybody else makes and is seemingly ignored: There's more differences between the US and UK than just gun laws. Not to mention our crime rate is going down. The issue isn't gun violence, it's violence. The way to combat it isn't to make an attempt at removing a tool some criminals use(and even more citizens use in a perfectly legal way), it's to remove the circumstances that lead people to lives of crime and never get out of that rut thanks to our prison system.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;40080724]Missing the point 101 is now in session. Seriously, can we stop acting like guns are what's causing people to do crazy things?[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.nationaljournal.com/magazine/why-improving-mental-health-would-do-little-to-end-gun-violence-20130124?mrefid=site_search[/url]

As much as possible should be done to quell America's outlandish gun culture.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;40081565]I'll just make the same statement that everybody else makes and is seemingly ignored: There's more differences between the US and UK than just gun laws. Not to mention our crime rate is going down. The issue isn't gun violence, it's violence. The way to combat it isn't to make an attempt at removing a tool some criminals use(and even more citizens use in a perfectly legal way), it's to remove the circumstances that lead people to lives of crime and never get out of that rut thanks to our prison system.[/QUOTE] The USA is statistically less violent than Britain, yet has an embarrassing homicide rate. I don't think I've ever seen The Economist call anyone an idiot before, but they're right.

[QUOTE=scout1;40081573][url]http://www.nationaljournal.com/magazine/why-improving-mental-health-would-do-little-to-end-gun-violence-20130124?mrefid=site_search[/url][/QUOTE] Wasn't that immediately shot down because it misses the point? Improving mental healthcare would help keep people from getting to the point where they commit a mass shooting. Nobody is saying mental healthcare alone is going to fix the social issues that lead to crime. That's why people are suggesting reforming the prison system and dealing with poverty.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;40081593]Wasn't that immediately shot down because it misses the point? Improving mental healthcare would help keep people from getting to the point where they commit a mass shooting. Nobody is saying mental healthcare alone is going to fix the social issues that lead to crime. That's why people are suggesting reforming the prison system and dealing with poverty.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.economist.com/blogs/lexington/2013/03/guns-and-mentally-ill[/url] [sp]But yes I agree, mental healthcare needs to be improved, along with poverty and the prison system[/sp]

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40081599][url]http://www.economist.com/blogs/lexington/2013/03/guns-and-mentally-ill[/url] [sp]But yes I agree, mental healthcare needs to be improved, along with poverty and the prison system[/sp][/QUOTE] And the NRA is missing the point equally hard for focusing solely on mental healthcare rather than acknowledging the social issues that lead to crime in general. From what I can tell, the NRA isn't referring to crime as a whole in that article either, just mass shootings. [editline]29th March 2013[/editline] Honestly I feel like the NRA cares more and more about conservative politics and less and less about gun owners.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;40081623]Honestly I feel like the NRA cares more and more about conservative politics and less and less about gun owners.[/QUOTE] Ya think? But no, the article is talking about murder in general. Like how the NRA talks about the "glass breaking in the night", is not about mass murders. But all their rhetoric ends up on facepunch regardless. Its like trying to argue with creationists sometimes.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40081660]Ya think? But no, the article is talking about murder in general. Like how the NRA talks about the "glass breaking in the night", is not about mass murders. But all their rhetoric ends up on facepunch regardless. Its like trying to argue with creationists sometimes.[/QUOTE] god created guns and god created america therefore every man should have a gun if you disagree the lord shall strike you down with his bushmaster cop-killer

[QUOTE=Reds;40081675]god created guns and god created america therefore every man should have a gun if you disagree the lord shall strike you down with his bushmaster cop-killer[/QUOTE] Its more to do with the complete misuse of science and statistics. "America is just more violent" "But why isn't that represented in statistics?" "It just is" "You can't ignore the evidence that firearms make it far easier to carry out atrocities and murders" "Nope, they would just use knifes" "But on the same day of the Newtown shooting, a similar school spree happened in China, 18 kids where stabbed, none died" "Nope, they would just use knifes" "???"

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40081686]Its more to do with the complete misuse of science and statistics. "America is just more violent" "But why isn't that represented in statistics?" "It just is" "You can't ignore the evidence that firearms make it far easier to carry out atrocities and murders" "Nope"[/QUOTE] It's a joke, man. I'm not going to speak my mind about gun control here, it's Facepunch, anyway.