Pope says Church should ask forgiveness from gays for past treatment - Polidicks

[url]http://www.reuters.com/article/us-pope-church-idUSKCN0ZC12E?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=577082c504d3017227a2527b&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter[/url] [quote]Pope Francis said on Sunday that Christians and the Roman Catholic Church should seek forgiveness from homosexuals for the way they had treated them. Speaking to reporters aboard the plane taking him back to Rome from Armenia, he also said the Church should ask forgiveness for the way it has treated women, for turning a blind eye to child labor and for "blessing so many weapons" in the past. In the hour-long freewheeling conversation that has become a trademark of his international travels, Francis was asked if he agreed with recent comments by a German Roman Catholic cardinal that the Church should apologize to gays. Francis looked sad when the reporter asked if an apology was made more urgent by the killing of 49 people at a gay club in Orlando, Florida this month. He recalled Church teachings that homosexuals "should not be discriminated against. They should be respected, accompanied pastorally." He added: "I think that the Church not only should apologize ... to a gay person whom it offended but it must also apologize to the poor as well, to the women who have been exploited, to children who have been exploited by (being forced to) work. It must apologize for having blessed so many weapons."[/quote]

Seriously, Pope Francis is the best Pope. Can anyone name another pope like him? Actually curious.

The saddest part about this is that there's not going to be another Pope that's this progressive for a while. Francis is just a genuinely great person, and I hope he lasts for a while. On the topic itself, I don't think the Church should straight up beg for forgiveness, but they should definitely try to right some of the wrongs they did, and start with a clean slate.

Yeah, some atheists, especially myself, will still act snarky and point and laugh at ridiculous teachings like transubstantiation and papal infallibility. That and the whole contraception and pedophile protection things. There's a lot to say about the church he's the head of, but he genuinely seems like a great person to me. Not like my opinion matters or anything. I wonder what his support looks like among Catholics in different regions.

[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;50601527]The saddest part about this is that there's not going to be another Pope that's this progressive for a while. Francis is just a genuinely great person, and I hope he lasts for a while. On the topic itself, I don't think the Church should straight up beg for forgiveness, but they should definitely try to right some of the wrongs they did, and start with a clean slate.[/QUOTE] He's like one of the youngest popes, he'll be around for a while.

...Doesn't the Bible say that homosexuality isn't allowed and should be punished? Would saying this technically be betraying God's word?

[QUOTE=Ltp0wer;50601559]Yeah, some atheists, especially myself, will still act snarky and point and laugh at ridiculous teachings like transubstantiation and papal infallibility. That and the whole contraception and pedophile protection things. There's a lot to say about the church he's the head of, but he genuinely seems like a great person to me. Not like my opinion matters or anything. I wonder what his support looks like among Catholics in different regions.[/QUOTE] Francis is a popular topic among Catholics on how he does things, mainly good because honestly what's the harm with homosexuals since the ones attacking are in fact mostly straight religious folks. We need some work somewhere. [QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50601598]...Doesn't the Bible say that homosexuality isn't allowed and should be punished? Would saying this technically be betraying God's word?[/QUOTE] Hard to say, as the bible has different interpretations. Most churches always follow the oldest form as it harken back to the original tradition, while recent members would follow through the word from other Catholics or Christians ie relatives with a few tweaks of their own to fit in with the time. There's nothing wrong with it imo; as long as your not killing, raping, stealing, or cheating on your loved ones and the people you meet then you are good in God's eyes.

[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50601598]...Doesn't the Bible say that homosexuality isn't allowed and should be punished? Would saying this technically be betraying God's word?[/QUOTE] he still thinks/says that, dont worry. he might be 'progressive' but he's still under the thumb of christianity.

[QUOTE=Naught;50601666]he still thinks/says that, dont worry. he might be 'progressive' but he's still under the thumb of christianity.[/QUOTE] you do know that there are fairly large amounts of Christians (myself included) who have no problem with gays, plus I'm fairly sure that it's only said in the Old Testament, whilst the New Testament doesn't have anything on it last I checked though I'm only basing this off on my experiences and knowledge

[QUOTE=Scorpo;50601691]you do know that there are fairly large amounts of Christians (myself included) who have no problem with gays, plus I'm fairly sure that it's only said in the Old Testament, whilst the New Testament doesn't have anything on it last I checked though I'm only basing this off on my experiences and knowledge[/QUOTE] well yea, the average person most likely has no problem with it, I know that, I have many christian friends and family. but thats not what im talking about. being under the thumb of the religion, means that he is still a man of the faith, and normally that means a distrust of gays. its still happening a lot, good luck being openly gay and also being a christian, anywhere. he talks about how it should be fine for gays to repent, which is nice...but thats still treating it like a sin. no doubt he's the complete opposite of previous popes, but it isnt going to change very much at all.

[QUOTE=Naught;50601778]he talks about how it should be fine for gays to repent, which is nice...but thats still treating it like a sin.[/QUOTE] The Church doesn't condemns homosexuality as a sin. It's homosexual [I]sexual activity[/I] what the Church considers sinful. At least this is what I recall from my catechism, which is quite rusty.

[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50601598]...Doesn't the Bible say that homosexuality isn't allowed and should be punished? Would saying this technically be betraying God's word?[/QUOTE] Being christian doesn't mean you have to hate gay people. They just don't approve of the act of homosexuality.

[QUOTE=T553412;50601869]The Church doesn't condemns homosexuality as a sin. It's homosexual [I]sexual activity[/I] what the Church considers sinful. At least this is what I recall from my catechism, which is quite rusty.[/QUOTE] This is in the catechism, and you are 100% accurate.

[QUOTE=Scorpo;50601691]you do know that there are fairly large amounts of Christians (myself included) who have no problem with gays, plus I'm fairly sure that it's only said in the Old Testament, whilst the New Testament doesn't have anything on it last I checked though I'm only basing this off on my experiences and knowledge[/QUOTE] No, the New Testament does mention it, but it's pretty much just Paul lumping it along with sexual immorality in his letters to the churches. Jesus never mentioned it, though. It's ridiculous for Christians to still be so concerned about homosexuality. I don't see any of us whining about crossdressing or arrogant people or a bunch of other things that are mentioned to be an abomination in the Old Testament.

[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50601598]...Doesn't the Bible say that homosexuality isn't allowed and should be punished? Would saying this technically be betraying God's word?[/QUOTE] The best explanation is we don't really know. A lot of Biblical scholars actually debate whether Leviticus 20:13 is truly about homosexuality or the practice of pedastry and sex slavery which was common at the time.

[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;50601503]Seriously, Pope Francis is the best Pope. Can anyone name another pope like him? Actually curious.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure John Paul was extremely well liked. He was only two popes ago.

[QUOTE=L'Citizen;50602290]The best explanation is we don't really know. A lot of Biblical scholars actually debate whether Leviticus 20:13 is truly about homosexuality or the practice of pedastry and sex slavery which was common at the time.[/QUOTE] Nobody but extremely liberal "scholars" trying to eisegete their own beliefs out of the bible use that description.

[QUOTE=sgman91;50602400]Nobody but extremely liberal "scholars" trying to eisegete their own beliefs out of the bible use that description.[/QUOTE] Speculation about the meaning of older writings while examining historical conditions and how they've changed since isn't a liberal thing: it's an educational one.

[QUOTE=matt000024;50602417]Speculation about the meaning of older writings while examining historical conditions and how they've changed since isn't a liberal thing: it's an educational one.[/QUOTE] Right, just like people question whether we really landed on the moon. I mean, sure, but that doesn't make it in any way legitimate. It's a clear case of eisegesis vs exegesis.

"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50601598]...Doesn't the Bible say that homosexuality isn't allowed and should be punished? Would saying this technically be betraying God's word?[/QUOTE] As someone who was brought up religious and converted to atheism, here's my thoughts on it. When the Big Hooby-Dooby What-Be-In-Charge tells you that killing is wrong and you shouldn't do it, and then proceeds to tell you to kill people, I'm inclined to interpret that as some sort of "are you a sandy fucking asshole" test.

He keeps on being a good guy. Love this pope.

[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50602513]"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."[/QUOTE] Humans have been very uptight about sex for a long time...

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;50602537]As someone who was brought up religious and converted to atheism, here's my thoughts on it. When the Big Hooby-Dooby What-Be-In-Charge tells you that killing is wrong and you shouldn't do it, and then proceeds to tell you to kill people, I'm inclined to interpret that as some sort of "are you a sandy fucking asshole" test.[/QUOTE] Honestly, this just shows that you're totally ignorant about what you're talking about. There are two words used for killing in the Hebrew used in the OT, one for illegal killing like manslaughter and murder, and one for legal killing like in war or as punishment. The 10 commandments uses the former. It's really too bad that we have this misunderstanding simply because the KJV translators used the work "kill" instead of "murder" like it should have been and is in modern versions.

[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50601598]...Doesn't the Bible say that homosexuality isn't allowed and should be punished? Would saying this technically be betraying God's word?[/QUOTE] Dude, do you even CK2 or EU4? No, just kidding. Now, actually, time for some Catholicism lessons (Shit, never thought it would be actually useful for something): THE Church doesn't hold anything the Bible at face value. Rather, it trusts that God's enlightens the Church members and so they know how to properly interpret what the scriptures say. Infallibility or something like that. I don't remember if they updated that version in the 1800's, waaaay ago or they actually took it out. Now of course, you will say: "But wait, then, what's the point of the bible?" Well fuck the bible. You've got the Jesuits who don't give a fuck about Creationism -Francis is a Jesuit as a matter of fact-. You've got Opus Dei would like you to fuck until you've got 12 children or a down kid. You've got the Liberation Theology which is a shitty Catholicism + Marxism mashup. And so. The bible also says love everyone else no matter how they are. TUrn the other cheek. And then strike down that motherfucker with some hot iron. It's contradictory as hell. Look up the CATHOLIC COMPENDIUM. It's got all the ACTUAL Catholic Church postures. EDIT: Omg people stop looking up quotes or stuff in the ancient/old testament. You gotta dig up stuff from the new testament. Only jews speak about the old testament. [QUOTE]The Church doesn't condemns homosexuality as a sin. It's homosexual sexual activity what the Church considers sinful. At least this is what I recall from my catechism, which is quite rusty.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html[/url] 492. What are the principal sins against chastity? 2351-2359 2396 Grave sins against chastity differ according to their object: adultery, masturbation, fornication, pornography, prostitution, rape, and homosexual acts. These sins are expressions of the vice of lust. These kinds of acts committed against the physical and moral integrity of minors become even more grave. BINGO

[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;50602581]quote about catholicism[/QUOTE] Note that this only applies to Catholicism.

[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50601598]...Doesn't the Bible say that homosexuality isn't allowed and should be punished? Would saying this technically be betraying God's word?[/QUOTE] considering the bible is an outdated text at best it's best to cherry pick and decide for ones self what is moral and just and what is a load of ass-pissing garbage

[QUOTE=sgman91;50602484]Right, just like people question whether we really landed on the moon. I mean, sure, but that doesn't make it in any way legitimate. It's a clear case of eisegesis vs exegesis.[/QUOTE] Uhm... except that is a completely invalid comparison. Studying past writings intentions and how they interact with history (e.g. how the Book of Revelations is actual criticism of Nero instead of the Apocalypse) is very different from scientific studies where we can hold experiments and prove facts.

[QUOTE=matt000024;50602607]Uhm... except that is a completely invalid comparison. Studying past writings intentions and how they interact with history (e.g. how the Book of Revelations is actual criticism of Nero instead of the Apocalypse) is very different from scientific studies where we can hold experiments and prove facts.[/QUOTE] My point is that the scholars who are making those points are at a similar level to the moon landing deniers. The fact that people are pretending to ask real, legitimate questions, doesn't actually make them real and legitimate. They are trying to prove their beliefs in the text. They are not trying to read the text and its cultural context and honestly coming to the conclusion that those verses are not talking about homosexuality.

[QUOTE=sgman91;50602616]My point is that the scholars who are making those points are at a similar level to the moon landing deniers. The fact that people are pretending to ask real, legitimate questions, doesn't actually make them real and legitimate. They are trying to prove their beliefs in the text. They are not trying to read the text and it's cultural context and honestly coming to the conclusion that those verses are not talking about homosexuality.[/QUOTE] How is looking at sex slavery's place in society at the time compared to the text not looking at historical context?