• Turkey's warships will accompany future aid ships to Gaza.
    29 replies, posted
[URL]http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=8216israel8217s-bullying-in-eastern-med-is-over8217-2011-09-02[/URL] [quote]The eastern Mediterranean will no longer be a place where Israeli naval forces can freely exercise their “bullying” practices against civilian vessels, a Turkish official said Friday.The official said this would be the outcome of Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu’s statement earlier in the day that “Turkey would take every precaution it deems necessary for the safety of maritime navigation in the eastern Mediterranean.” Davutoğlu’s statement about providing maritime safety in the eastern Mediterranean grabbed the most attention among the various sanctions against Israel the foreign minister announced Friday. He did not further elaborate, however, on what he meant by taking “every precaution.” The Turkish foreign minister’s statement will likely spark a new faceoff between Turkey and Israel, the region’s strongest armies, in the eastern Mediterranean. A potential confrontation between the two countries’ navies would have serious negative consequences for regional stability. Turkish diplomats told the Hürriyet Daily News that the Turkish Navy will be more visible in the eastern Mediterranean through regular patrolling in international waters. “A more aggressive strategy will be pursued. Israel will no longer be able to exercise its bullying practices freely,” one said. Using Turkish naval vessels to escort ships carrying aid to Palestine and observing free navigation in the zone between the island of Cyprus and Israel are among the plans set to be implemented, sources said, adding that Turkish war ships would be more frequently seen in the area. The zone described by Turkish sources has been the subject of a recent diplomatic struggle between Turkey and Greek Cyprus over the latter’s project to start drilling natural gas reserves. Greek Cyprus and Israel recently agreed to jointly initiate the drilling with the participation of some American companies. [/quote] anyone here have any idea how good or bad Turkey and Israel's navies are?
Ohhhhh tits.
I've met one of the people who boarded the last Freedom Flotilla. Amazing guy. [editline]3rd September 2011[/editline] I wonder if he will try boarding something similar again . . .
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;32097856]anyone here have any idea how good or bad Turkey and Israel's navies are?[/QUOTE] At a quick glance, the Turks have 48,600 personnel in their navy, 75 aircraft, 19 frigates, 7 corvettes, 14 submarines, and 108 fast attack craft; Israel has 19,500 personnel in their navy, 3 corvettes, 10 missile boats, 3 submarines, 42 patrol boats, and 6 support ships. But since they're not going to fight each other, doesn't really matter. Nice to hear the Turks will be there to safeguard future aid flotillas and their supplies.
Wow, this instantly made me like Turkey a little bit more.
If only Turkey would show the same concern towards Kurds in their country as they do with Palestinians in Israel and occupied territories. As much as I think this is a step in the right direction, it's not like Turkey is much better in regards to ethnic groups fighting for a nation-state or at least basic rights of minorities. Much of Israel and Turkey's shit feuds recently have really just been the pot calling the kettle black.
They also decided to finally take the Israeli blockade to the ICJ, about time really, good job.
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;32098012]At a quick glance, the Turks have 48,600 personnel in their navy, 75 aircraft, 19 frigates, 7 corvettes, 14 submarines, and 108 fast attack craft; Israel has 19,500 personnel in their navy, 3 corvettes, 10 missile boats, 3 submarines, 42 patrol boats, and 6 support ships. But since they're not going to fight each other, doesn't really matter. Nice to hear the Turks will be there to safeguard future aid flotillas and their supplies.[/QUOTE] Given how much Israel focuses on point defense development, I wouldn't want to tangle with those missile cruisers.
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;32098012]At a quick glance, the Turks have 48,600 personnel in their navy, 75 aircraft, 19 frigates, 7 corvettes, 14 submarines, and 108 fast attack craft; Israel has 19,500 personnel in their navy, 3 corvettes, 10 missile boats, 3 submarines, 42 patrol boats, and 6 support ships. [B] But since they're not going to fight each other, doesn't really matter. [/B] Nice to hear the Turks will be there to safeguard future aid flotillas and their supplies.[/QUOTE] It does matter actually. There is no way you can say with 100% certainty they won't go to war.
[QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;32098905]It does matter actually. There is no way you can say with 100% certainty they won't go to war.[/QUOTE]I'm 100% sure Turkey and Israel will not start a full-scale war due to this.
[QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;32098905]It does matter actually. There is no way you can say with 100% certainty they won't go to war.[/QUOTE] it's 99.999% certain that they won't go to war no one is going to go to war over a tiny "aid" flotilla last time Israel and their Arab neighbors (Turkey isn't even Arab, really, after all) went to war they spent several months in preparation there's the VERY VERY small chance that it will result in a small naval skirmish. The chances of that escalating into a war are almost nil
[QUOTE=Starpluck;32098931]I'm 100% sure Turkey and Israel will not start a full-scale war due to this.[/QUOTE] Given, Israel already has a plateful of domestic issues they need sorting out, hence why I wasn't surprised when they didn't retaliate with full force with the recent terrorist attacks in the south of the country. Which means this is certainly going to put a muzzle on them. But you can't say there absolutely won't be some unexpected development, which might not even come from Turkey or Israel that might very well bring things to the boiling point.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;32098931]I'm 100% sure Turkey and Israel will not start a full-scale war due to this.[/QUOTE] Exactly what I'm thinking, although I also think that Turkey being a member of NATO has something to do with it as well.
[QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;32099038]But you can't say there absolutely won't be some unexpected development, which might not even come from Turkey or Israel that might very well bring things to the boiling point.[/QUOTE] wars don't start in a seconds. Even though this is the information age, a lot of resources have to be mobilized to start a war, and mobilizing those resources requires levels of political AND military authorization. Any sane politician in Turkey or Israel will NOT want a war between the 2 countries, as it would make Israel look even more radical and heavy-handed, and it would destroy Turkey's reputation of being moderate that it's trying to build. There are major safety checks in the political and military apparatuses that prevent wars from "just happening"
Maybe one would erupt hundreds of years ago if they did clash in this manner but the world is way to globalized now for any of that to happen.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;32099146]wars don't start in a seconds. Even though this is the information age, a lot of resources have to be mobilized to start a war, and mobilizing those resources requires levels of political AND military authorization. Any sane politician in Turkey or Israel will NOT want a war between the 2 countries, as it would make Israel look even more radical and heavy-handed, and it would destroy Turkey's reputation of being moderate that it's trying to build. There are major safety checks in the political and military apparatuses that prevent wars from "just happening"[/QUOTE] I know that. Wars also can't start in seconds because the militaries have to be properly mobilized. Even Israel would need time to mobilize, so there would definitely be red flags. All I'm saying is, given the tensions already in place, nothing is ever 100% in international politics. 90%, 99%, but never 100%. Edit: And as Bbarnes said above, Turkey's part of NATO, and they're really trying for EU membership. A war with Israel definitely wouldn't help them.
[QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;32099227]I know that. Wars also can't start in seconds because the militaries have to be properly mobilized. Even Israel would need time to mobilize, so there would definitely be red flags. All I'm saying is, given the tensions already in place, nothing is ever 100% in international politics. 90%, 99%, but never 100%. Edit: And as Bbarnes said above, Turkey's part of NATO, and they're really trying for EU membership. A war with Israel definitely wouldn't help them.[/QUOTE] lerr, I'm even sure some quantum mechanics thing says nothing is ever 100% certain anyways point is, the probability of a war starting is so low it is NOT worth mentioning.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;32099284]lerr, I'm even sure some quantum mechanics thing says nothing is ever 100% certain anyways point is, the probability of a war starting is so low it is NOT worth mentioning.[/QUOTE] So according to Chaos theory this is a valid turn of events: A ship's captain insults the opposing ship's captain's mother, this insult turns out to be the most insulting string of words ever uttered from a human's mouth thereby causing a cascade event of butt-hurt to trickle down the chain of command while simultaneously being relayed up, each stage worsening the insult up to the point where it is now a generalized insult aimed at the entire populace. The populace is enraged, as they would, and demand torrents of blood et cetera et cetera until it all ends with the world being populated by radioactive bears that enslaved the now mutated human race.
[QUOTE=PunchedInFac;32099411]So according to Chaos theory this is a valid turn of events: A ship's captain insults the opposing ship's captain's mother, this insult turns out to be the most insulting string of words ever uttered from a human's mouth thereby causing a cascade event of butt-hurt to trickle down the chain of command while simultaneously being relayed up, each stage worsening the insult up to the point where it is now a generalized insult aimed at the entire populace. The populace is enraged, as they would, and demand torrents of blood et cetera et cetera until it all ends with the world being populated by radioactive bears that enslaved the now mutated human race.[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8fwS3ZTKbk&feature=related[/media]
This is good news, now the Israelis won't be able to board ships and slaughter civilians at will.
[QUOTE=The Epidemic;32097975]I've met one of the people who boarded the last Freedom Flotilla. Amazing guy. [editline]3rd September 2011[/editline] I wonder if he will try boarding something similar again . . .[/QUOTE] Isn't that the one that the captain quit? [editline]3rd September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;32099798]This is good news, now the Israelis won't be able to board ships and slaughter civilians at will.[/QUOTE] So things will be like they always were.
Why does everyone in that whole region have an issue with provocation? It's like they're almost born with it in their DNA or something, they HAVE to start shit or else the whole Middle East will implode. "I HATE YOU" "NO I HATE YOU" "I HATE BOTH OF YOU MORE" "well we all hate israel" "YEAH WE HATE ISRAEL" "fuck you guys, just go away or GOD DAMN IT ANOTHER ROCKET ATTACK I HATE YOU BULLDOZE PALESTINE AGAIN" "OH ISRAEL I HATE YOU SO MUCH RIGHT NOW" "OH YEAH? FUCK ALL ARABS JEWS FTW" "FUCK YOU ISRAEL" Then suddenly, Turkey comes in. "hey guys what's goin- OH ISRAEL I HATE YOU WARSHIPS ESCORTING FLOTILLA NOW" "JEWS ARE NAZIS" "SHUT UP IRAN I HATE YOU" "FUCK OFF SAUDI ARABIA I HATE YOU MORE" You can kind of guess this is never, ever going to end.
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;32100180]Why does everyone in that whole region have an issue with provocation? It's like they're almost born with it in their DNA or something, they HAVE to start shit or else the whole Middle East will implode. "I HATE YOU" "NO I HATE YOU" "I HATE BOTH OF YOU MORE" "well we all hate israel" "YEAH WE HATE ISRAEL" "fuck you guys, just go away or GOD DAMN IT ANOTHER ROCKET ATTACK I HATE YOU BULLDOZE PALESTINE AGAIN" "OH ISRAEL I HATE YOU SO MUCH RIGHT NOW" "OH YEAH? FUCK ALL ARABS JEWS FTW" "FUCK YOU ISRAEL" Then suddenly, Turkey comes in. "hey guys what's goin- OH ISRAEL I HATE YOU WARSHIPS ESCORTING FLOTILLA NOW" "JEWS ARE NAZIS" "SHUT UP IRAN I HATE YOU" "FUCK OFF SAUDI ARABIA I HATE YOU MORE" You can kind of guess this is never, ever going to end.[/QUOTE] i doubt thats how politics work
[QUOTE=Bobie;32100255]i doubt thats how politics work[/QUOTE]It's an extremely dumbed down, simple version of what actually happens. I loved the diplomatic cables because everybody was talking shit behind everyone's backs. They barely get along, I'm surprised there's any stability in that region when the politicians they have are giant manchildren. It is true that they provoke the fuck out of one another, though. They can't talk it out, noooo, they have to escalate shit every time.
Never post again on this matter.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;32099009]it's 99.999% certain that they won't go to war no one is going to go to war over a tiny "aid" flotilla last time Israel and their Arab neighbors (Turkey isn't even Arab, really, after all) went to war they spent several months in preparation there's the VERY VERY small chance that it will result in a small naval skirmish. The chances of that escalating into a war are almost nil[/QUOTE] "no one will ever go to war over some austrian monarch being murdered by a bunch of serbs" 4 weeks later
[QUOTE=QueenElizebeth;32102208]"no one will ever go to war over some austrian monarch being murdered by a bunch of serbs" 4 weeks later[/QUOTE] if you are seriously trying to make that analogy... No one could be that stupid. You're trolling
[QUOTE=QueenElizebeth;32102208]"no one will ever go to war over some austrian monarch being murdered by a bunch of serbs" 4 weeks later[/QUOTE] wow holy shit that situation was a lot different there was already astronomical levels of tensions between the two nations, way more than turkey and israel. not to mention the fucking alliances and shit and the fact that the world is way different today
I don't think combating threats of violence with threats of violence is the right thing to do. Or escorting Peaceful flotillas with battles cruisers is the right thing to do either.
[QUOTE=QueenElizebeth;32102208]"no one will ever go to war over some austrian monarch being murdered by a bunch of serbs" 4 weeks later[/QUOTE]The 2 are so far apart it's not even funny. The tensions that led to WW1 had been building up for a decade, or arguably since the unification of Germany. [editline]4th September 2011[/editline] If it hadn't been the Archduke's assassination, some other incident would have started it all.
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