Canada military builds refugee camp for refugees from US - Polidicks

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40879544[/url] [quote]The Canadian military is building a camp to house the growing number of refugees crossing the US border, officials have said. The camp would house up to 500 asylum seekers in Saint-Bernard-de-Lacolle, Quebec, near Plattsburgh, New York. The construction begins about a week after Montreal turned its Olympic Stadium into a shelter for refugees arriving from the US. More than 3,300 people crossed into Quebec between 1 January and 30 June. The military-built camp would house hundreds of asylum seekers in heated tents fitted with flooring and electricity while they wait for their refugee applications to be processed, said a statement from the military.[/quote]

An important detail [quote]In May, Donald Trump announced that the US would end the programme that extended temporary protection to Haitian citizens after the devastating 2010 earthquake. That protection is due to expire in January 2018.[/quote]

The US is on our way to being considered just another undeveloped nation in the Americas with a corrupt government that you pass through on your way north

[QUOTE=cis.joshb;52556809]The US is on our way to being considered just another undeveloped nation in the Americas with a corrupt government that you pass through on your way north[/QUOTE] Oh, please. I'm sick of people acting like this is the end of Western civilization as we know it just because we have a shitty president. Have you considered the fact that maybe, just [i]maybe[/i], things could get better? That we could get a much better person in office in four years, someone that could actually inspire a nation rather than just inflicting another cycle of self-doubt and loathing on the country as a whole? Or are you just content to wax poetic about how democracy is over, the republic has ended, the country is just another banana republic with a tinpot dictator at its helm? It's pathetic. It reminds me of how liberals tittered as conservatives blew their lids at Obama, attacking him as yet another monarch and committing the ultimate treason with his policies. Nothing has changed, has it? It's just a different party unreasonably hysterical over the actions of their political opponents. The country has dealt with a lot of shit - including a literal civil war - yet [i]this[/i] is the line in the sand when our nation crumbles? Not quite. Have an ounce of faith that a government that has endured two hundred years of strife and crisis can weather the storm of a single orange crybaby for a couple of years. It's normal to be upset, but it's not okay to just give up altogether.

[QUOTE=cis.joshb;52556809]The US is on our way to being considered just another undeveloped nation in the Americas with a corrupt government that you pass through on your way north[/QUOTE] Pretty dramatic tbh

[QUOTE=Cheshire_cat;52556872] It's pathetic. It reminds me of how liberals tittered as conservatives blew their lids at Obama, attacking him as yet another monarch and committing the ultimate treason with his policies. Nothing has changed, has it? It's just a different party unreasonably hysterical over the actions of their political opponents. [/QUOTE] I agree with your general point but you can't really compare criticism and fear of Obama to criticism and fear of Trump.

[QUOTE]The camp would house up to 500 asylum seekers in Saint-Bernard-de-Lacolle, Quebec, near [B]Plattsburgh, New York.[/B][/QUOTE] Native New Yorker here, I can assure you most of the refugees will be fleeing NY itself, not Trump (Well I mean they might be fleeing him too, but certainly not as much as they are NY).

[QUOTE=cis.joshb;52556809]The US is on our way to being considered just another undeveloped nation in the Americas with a corrupt government that you pass through on your way north[/QUOTE] I bet you did great in PolSci. In what way is America like Mexico? Where reporters are murdered in broad daylight and the government is too scared to do anything about it. How about Venezuela? A nation on the brink of civil war? How about Haiti? I mean [I]come. on.[/I] Acting like this whole "woe is me the world is over guys democracy has DIED!" because of Trump is laughably embarrassing to say the least. Want to talk about "death of democracy"? How about when presidents allowed people to be [I]owned as property[/I]. How about when presidents forced people into camps based [I]entirely on their race[/I]. Were those the deaths of democracy?

[QUOTE=Cheshire_cat;52556872]Oh, please. I'm sick of people acting like this is the end of Western civilization as we know it just because we have a shitty president. Have you considered the fact that maybe, just [i]maybe[/i], things could get better? That we could get a much better person in office in four years, someone that could actually inspire a nation rather than just inflicting another cycle of self-doubt and loathing on the country as a whole? Or are you just content to wax poetic about how democracy is over, the republic has ended, the country is just another banana republic with a tinpot dictator at its helm? It's pathetic. It reminds me of how liberals tittered as conservatives blew their lids at Obama, attacking him as yet another monarch and committing the ultimate treason with his policies. Nothing has changed, has it? It's just a different party unreasonably hysterical over the actions of their political opponents. The country has dealt with a lot of shit - including a literal civil war - yet [i]this[/i] is the line in the sand when our nation crumbles? Not quite. Have an ounce of faith that a government that has endured two hundred years of strife and crisis can weather the storm of a single orange crybaby for a couple of years. It's normal to be upset, but it's not okay to just give up altogether.[/QUOTE] What he said might be a bit overblown but it's not entirely untrue either. People have good reason to believe that our democracy is in danger when the person who got into office not only openly admires literal dictators and keeps trying to act like them but also quite possibly got into power by colluding with a hostile foreign nation. The fact Republicans have been so supportive of said leader combined with what I already mentioned does not at all inspire confidence in our nation's government. Our nation is in very clear decline as a global superpower because of people like Trump and a lot of Republicans. (And even Democrats though they're at least less numerous.) And you're making quite a lot of assumptions in your post. [QUOTE]Or are you just content to wax poetic about how democracy is over, the republic has ended, the country is just another banana republic with a tinpot dictator at its helm?[/QUOTE] Literally putting words in his mouth. [QUOTE]It's just a different party unreasonably hysterical over the actions of their political opponents.[/QUOTE] Here you're making the mistake of assuming this is political shit flinging rather than legitimate concerns over the future of our nation. [QUOTE]Have an ounce of faith that a government that has endured two hundred years of strife and crisis can weather the storm of a single orange crybaby for a couple of years.[/QUOTE] So you say but so far the Republican controlled Congress hasn't inspired very much faith in our government doing the right thing. They've been depressingly reluctant to actually pursue investigation, in the open testimony they've had they constantly try to deflect from the issue leaving the opposite side to pursue actual lines of questioning, and there's still a lot of concern that if it turns out Trump has done something impeachable (which is almost certainly true at this point with some of the stuff he's pulled since getting into office) that Congress won't do shit about it. [QUOTE]It's normal to be upset, but it's not okay to just give up altogether.[/QUOTE] Where in his post did he say to give up?

[QUOTE=Raidyr;52556881]I agree with your general point but you can't really compare criticism and fear of Obama to criticism and fear of Trump.[/QUOTE] Obama never plunged the country into constitutional crisis

[QUOTE=Cheshire_cat;52556872]Oh, please. I'm sick of people acting like this is the end of Western civilization as we know it just because we have a shitty president. Have you considered the fact that maybe, just [i]maybe[/i], things could get better? That we could get a much better person in office in four years, someone that could actually inspire a nation rather than just inflicting another cycle of self-doubt and loathing on the country as a whole? Or are you just content to wax poetic about how democracy is over, the republic has ended, the country is just another banana republic with a tinpot dictator at its helm? It's pathetic. It reminds me of how liberals tittered as conservatives blew their lids at Obama, attacking him as yet another monarch and committing the ultimate treason with his policies. Nothing has changed, has it? It's just a different party unreasonably hysterical over the actions of their political opponents. The country has dealt with a lot of shit - including a literal civil war - yet [i]this[/i] is the line in the sand when our nation crumbles? Not quite. Have an ounce of faith that a government that has endured two hundred years of strife and crisis can weather the storm of a single orange crybaby for a couple of years. It's normal to be upset, but it's not okay to just give up altogether.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Raidyr;52556881]I agree with your general point but you can't really compare criticism and fear of Obama to criticism and fear of Trump.[/QUOTE] Let's look at why Republicans were freaking out over Obama. Normally, Democrat presidents don't provoke such hysterics among the GOP, and Obama's policies were lukewarm at best - he wasn't like some socialist revolutionary to shake up baseball, Apple Pie, and the American way of life. I can only conclude, then, that the underlying reason Republicans were so hysterical about Obama, whatever they pretended it was on the surface, was because he was black. Let's look at why Democrats - and even many Republicans - are freaking out about Trump. Could it possibly be that he's dividing the country, blackmailing law enforcement, alienating and insulting allies and threatening nuclear war with enemies, appointing his family to positions of power, abusing the position of the President to get rich and eroding the freedoms of Americans and the international fight against climate change in the name of profit? Could it be that he's trying to cover up his wrongdoing in colluding with Russia to influence the election in his favour, and trying to place himself above the rule of law? Could it possibly be the fact that he's as incompetent a leader as one could imagine, and has all the attention span and emotional maturity of a spoiled child? No, no, this is simply liberals being hysterical 'cause they don't like him, right? If I'm strawmanning here, do me the kindness to tell me exactly how and why I'm wrong, and I'll acknowledge your point if it's a good one.

[QUOTE=Alice3173;52556896]What he said might be a bit overblown but it's not entirely untrue either. People have good reason to believe that our democracy is in danger when the person who got into office not only openly admires literal dictators and keeps trying to act like them but also quite possibly got into power by colluding with a hostile foreign nation. The fact Republicans have been so supportive of said leader combined with what I already mentioned does not at all inspire confidence in our nation's government. Our nation is in very clear decline as a global superpower because of people like Trump and a lot of Republicans. (And even Democrats though they're at least less numerous.) And you're making quite a lot of assumptions in your post.[/QUOTE] You think that Trump is the first politician to be cast as the reason for our nation "[declining] as a global superpower"? Republicans said the same thing about Obama when he commissioned New START, when he withdrew troops from Iraq, when he cut the military budget, et cetera. [QUOTE]Literally putting words in his mouth.[/QUOTE] Proclaiming the nation to be "just another undeveloped nation in the Americas with a corrupt government" isn't far from the mark. [QUOTE]Here you're making the mistake of assuming this is political shit flinging rather than legitimate concerns over the future of our nation.[/QUOTE] Again, you're making the mistake of assuming that the shit conservatives worried about under Obama's presidency was just political theater. They were "legitimate concerns" to them as well regardless of how you feel about them personally. [QUOTE]So you say but so far the Republican controlled Congress hasn't inspired very much faith in our government doing the right thing. They've been depressingly reluctant to actually pursue investigation, in the open testimony they've had they constantly try to deflect from the issue leaving the opposite side to pursue actual lines of questioning, and there's still a lot of concern that if it turns out Trump has done something impeachable (which is almost certainly true at this point with some of the stuff he's pulled since getting into office) that Congress won't do shit about it.[/QUOTE] I'll agree with you that the Congress has been a massive disappointment, but the House, the Senate, or both could very well turn blue over the next few years judging by popular discourse. Even if that doesn't happen, there's enough internal conflict within the Republican Congress to plausibly threaten impeachment. [QUOTE]Where in his post did he say to give up?[/QUOTE] His post is depressingly defeatist in tone. Slipping in "on our way" doesn't do much to lighten that up.

[QUOTE=cis.joshb;52556809]The US is on our way to being considered just another undeveloped nation in the Americas with a corrupt government that you pass through on your way north[/QUOTE] Hey, you know what I'm worried about more, if a nuclear war doesn't get us, the US dissolution as a super power will. With the status quo gone or/and not worth upholding, the country will shatter politically and ideologically like a pane of glass. The states become home for those different ideologies causing them to split. The growing tensions and political blame will lead to a civil war.

[QUOTE=Cheshire_cat;52556936]You think that Trump is the first politician to be cast as the reason for our nation "[declining] as a global superpower"? Republicans said the same thing about Obama when he commissioned New START, when he withdrew troops from Iraq, when he cut the military budget, et cetera. Again, you're making the mistake of assuming that the shit conservatives worried about under Obama's presidency was just political theater. They were "legitimate concerns" to them as well regardless of how you feel about them personally.[/QUOTE] Both of these parts are just baseless whataboutism. We could go over Obama's issues bit by bit and show where they weren't valid concerns but archangel addressed that adequately. I've already gone over why the concerns about Trump are valid. This isn't partisan bullshit or discriminatory garbage. There are very legitimate concerns on an objective level.

[QUOTE=Cheshire_cat;52556872]Oh, please. I'm sick of people acting like this is the end of Western civilization as we know it just because we have a shitty president. Have you considered the fact that maybe, just [i]maybe[/i], things could get better? That we could get a much better person in office in four years, someone that could actually inspire a nation rather than just inflicting another cycle of self-doubt and loathing on the country as a whole? Or are you just content to wax poetic about how democracy is over, the republic has ended, the country is just another banana republic with a tinpot dictator at its helm? It's pathetic. It reminds me of how liberals tittered as conservatives blew their lids at Obama, attacking him as yet another monarch and committing the ultimate treason with his policies. Nothing has changed, has it? It's just a different party unreasonably hysterical over the actions of their political opponents. The country has dealt with a lot of shit - including a literal civil war - yet [i]this[/i] is the line in the sand when our nation crumbles? Not quite. Have an ounce of faith that a government that has endured two hundred years of strife and crisis can weather the storm of a single orange crybaby for a couple of years. It's normal to be upset, but it's not okay to just give up altogether.[/QUOTE] Once you cross certain lines, there's very little tendency to uncross them. The filibuster probably will not survive another 3 years, and the faith in the justice system as a whole is greatly diminished by both the pandering from the DOJ to right-wing interests, and the stolen supreme court appointment of Gorsich. Tack on the fact that the republican party is seemingly now run by the conservative media which only works to further polarize this country, its going to be hard to come back from this and return to where things were ala obama what's worse is that the house still has a very real chance of staying red in the next election, and the senate is very likely going to stay red, even to the point where they may pickup a supermajority, couple that with the two years of single party rule, because they've already decided that the tax reform package will be done by reconciliation, again further deminishing the power of minority parties, and you're going to have one extremely disfunctional country where half the population doesn't feel represented by the actual government and what are largely peaceful demonstrations now, will be outright violent attacks.

[QUOTE=Cheshire_cat;52556936]Again, you're making the mistake of assuming that the shit conservatives worried about under Obama's presidency was just political theater. They were "legitimate concerns" to them as well regardless of how you feel about them personally.[/QUOTE] What defines this legitimacy? Are you talking about how legitimate an opinion is to those who hold them? Or do we have a standard for legitimacy here, at all? Such as support from the scientific community, verifiable evidence, or examples set by other successful governments? If it's the former, then it's not a very useful definition. Flat earthers have a legitimate opinion, from their point of view. If it's the latter, then do you really consider birtherism, climate change denial and "muslims were cheering in the streets during 9/11" to be as legitimate as Obama's rhetoric? You can try to equate them all you want. The fact is, only one side of the aisle is supporting a conspiracy theorist who brags about sexual assault. Democrats have a [b]shitload[/b] of issues, but pretending they're just as as bad as the baseless, extreme bullshit that Republicans have normalized in American politics is not the way to solve them. Time to take your head out of the sand.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52556893]I bet you did great in PolSci. In what way is America like Mexico? Where reporters are murdered in broad daylight and the government is too scared to do anything about it. How about Venezuela? A nation on the brink of civil war? How about Haiti? I mean [I]come. on.[/I] Acting like this whole "woe is me the world is over guys democracy has DIED!" because of Trump is laughably embarrassing to say the least. Want to talk about "death of democracy"? How about when presidents allowed people to be [I]owned as property[/I]. How about when presidents forced people into camps based [I]entirely on their race[/I]. Were those the deaths of democracy?[/QUOTE] I'm talking about development and corruption. Of course many nations in Latin America are significantly worse off, but Americans have less access to basic needs like healthcare and housing and more income inequality than many western nations, and our access to education is based on the wealth of the area (property taxes). Same thing with corruption compared to the main group of western nations. The administration is corrupt, incompetent, and connected to foreign undemocratic regime. The question is only, when do we cross the threshold to being closer to somewhere like Mexico than somewhere like Denmark?

[QUOTE=cis.joshb;52559421]I'm talking about development and corruption. Of course many nations in Latin America are significantly worse off, but Americans have less access to basic needs like healthcare and housing and more income inequality than many western nations, and our access to education is based on the wealth of the area (property taxes). Same thing with corruption compared to the main group of western nations. The administration is corrupt, incompetent, and connected to foreign undemocratic regime. The question is only, when do we cross the threshold to being closer to somewhere like Mexico than somewhere like Denmark?[/QUOTE] There's no denying the US is in relative decline, but it is important to keep perspective. Places like Mexico (or more accurately, Venezuela) struggle with basic enforcement of the rule of law. The US doesn't. We have corruption, but our justice system is still very capable. It's at risk of being neutered by corrupt actors, but the entire Trump-Russia scandal and the untouchable status of Mueller and his criminal probe highlight that the US still has mechanisms in place to combat corruption. Nations like Venezuela don't - they've been destroyed by corrupt actors. Poland's recent attempts to basically abolish the impartiality of the courts is an example - that hasn't happened here yet. Not even close. We're sliding downwards, but we have the legal and civil mechanisms in our government and society to slow or halt that still. The countries you're comparing the US to don't have anything comparable. If Trump abolished the Supreme Court and succeeds, or pulls some other Erdogan/Putin-esque power grab, be concerned. But his corruption is being combated relatively easily - if he came to power in almost anywhere in Latin America, he'd be running a military junta by now.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;52559569]There's no denying the US is in relative decline, but it is important to keep perspective. Places like Mexico (or more accurately, Venezuela) struggle with basic enforcement of the rule of law. The US doesn't. We have corruption, but our justice system is still very capable. It's at risk of being neutered by corrupt actors, but the entire Trump-Russia scandal and the untouchable status of Mueller and his criminal probe highlight that the US still has mechanisms in place to combat corruption. Nations like Venezuela don't - they've been destroyed by corrupt actors. Poland's recent attempts to basically abolish the impartiality of the courts is an example - that hasn't happened here yet. Not even close. We're sliding downwards, but we have the legal and civil mechanisms in our government and society to slow or halt that still. The countries you're comparing the US to don't have anything comparable. If Trump abolished the Supreme Court and succeeds, or pulls some other Erdogan/Putin-esque power grab, be concerned. But his corruption is being combated relatively easily - if he came to power in almost anywhere in Latin America, he'd be running a military junta by now.[/QUOTE] hypathetically they don't even really need to abolish the supreme court, congress has authority to expand it or shrink it as they see fit, a potential scenario could very well be that the republicans rally around expanding the court, by adding a few more justices "because every decision resting on one swing vote is dangerous" say they bump it to 13, suddenly trump doesn't even have to wait on justices to retire, he just sticks a few more in and stacks the court

[QUOTE=TheMrFailz;52556888]Native New Yorker here, I can assure you most of the refugees will be fleeing NY itself, not Trump (Well I mean they might be fleeing him too, but certainly not as much as they are NY).[/QUOTE] I don't live in NY can you elaborate on this? Why not just flee to a different state?

Remember when we used to be the greatest country on earth?

[QUOTE=proboardslol;52564559]Remember when we used to be the greatest country on earth?[/QUOTE] I don't think anyone here was alive before 1607

[QUOTE=proboardslol;52564559]Remember when we used to be the greatest country on earth?[/QUOTE] Am I missing something or are you glossing over the history of racial injustice and terrible things that our society has allowed? I love the land and the people, but nationalist statements like this are ridiculous.