Republic of Fear: Welcome to the Orwellian world of pre-referendum Crimea - Polidicks

[img]http://facebookblog.foreignpolicy.com/files/imagecache/860x/images/simferopol.jpg[/img] [quote=Foreign Policy][b]SIMFEROPOL, Crimea — The last time I spoke with Crimean activist Andriy Shchekun, I had no inkling that it might be my only opportunity to do so for a while. The next day, on March 9, he disappeared, along with two of his colleagues and his son Serhiy[/b] -- apparently spirited away by the pro-Russian security forces that have emerged all over this Ukrainian province ever since Russian troops began taking over at the beginning of this month. Shchekun and his friends had been organizing rallies in support of keeping Crimea within Ukraine. Ever since pro-Russian forces made their grab for power late last month, he and his fellow activists have been on the receiving end of anonymous phone calls or graffiti threatening bad ends for those who would resist. "There are people in civilian clothes or in the uniforms of the Russian self-defense forces who try to scare people coming to our meetings," he told me. "Many Ukrainians and Tatars are receiving death threats. They're acting like bandits, but there are also many decent Russians who support us and don't want to be part of Putin's Russia." A few days later I had an opportunity to ask Dmitri Polonsky, the new Crimean minister of information, what had happened to the Ukrainian activists. His response was utterly Orwellian: [b]"There is no Ukrainian community in the Crimea, so there are no missing community leaders."[/b] Like all the rest of the people who have suddenly emerged over the past few days to staff the region's new administration, Polonsky is a Russian. [/quote] [url=http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/03/15/republic_of_fear_0]Source[/url]

And hey if you join Russia you get to live like this every day!

[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;44249059]And hey if you join Russia you get to live like this every day![/QUOTE] Somewhere, the corpse of George Orwell, sheds a single tear.

[quote][B]There is no Ukrainian community in the Crimea[/B][/quote] "Not anymore, at least. Keh keh keh." This situation is so fucked up.

Haha I can't wait to see after Crimea joins Russia that the same people who wanted to join Russia in the first place decide to break away or defect back to Ukraine. And I hope if that's the case, then Ukraine gives them the finger. The ignorance of many pro-Russian Crimeans shown doing interviews with the media is just astonishing - only wanting to join Russia because 'hurr durr motherland'.

[QUOTE=Antdawg;44249373]Haha I can't wait to see after Crimea joins Russia that the same people who wanted to join Russia in the first place decide to break away or defect back to Ukraine. And I hope if that's the case, then Ukraine gives them the finger. The ignorance of many pro-Russian Crimeans shown doing interviews with the media is just astonishing - only wanting to join Russia because 'hurr durr motherland'.[/QUOTE] This is why nationalism based on ethnicity is so stupid and dangerous.

I knew it would be bad, I didn't think it would be that bad.

[QUOTE=Explosions;44249455]This is why nationalism based on ethnicity is so stupid and dangerous.[/QUOTE] I would argue that this applies to all nationalism, period.

We have always been separate from the Ukraine.

[QUOTE=Drsalvador;44253625]We have always been separate from the Ukraine.[/QUOTE] You mean there never was a British Province of Ukraine? :(

[QUOTE=Explosions;44249455]This is why nationalism based on ethnicity is so stupid and dangerous.[/QUOTE] If a portion of a country with a significant ethnic population that perceives itself as their ethnicity first and the country they're living in second, are presented with an opportunity to join with (or form) a country that bests represents their heritage and interests, why shouldn't they?

[QUOTE=Antdawg;44249373]Haha I can't wait to see after Crimea joins Russia that the same people who wanted to join Russia in the first place decide to break away or defect back to Ukraine. And I hope if that's the case, then Ukraine gives them the finger. The ignorance of many pro-Russian Crimeans shown doing interviews with the media is just astonishing - only wanting to join Russia because 'hurr durr motherland'.[/QUOTE] Ignorance is Strength.

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;44253850]If a portion of a country with a significant ethnic population that perceives itself as their ethnicity first and the country they're living in second, are presented with an opportunity to join with (or form) a country that bests represents their heritage and interests, why shouldn't they?[/QUOTE] Because even though they might be a simple majority, they're not a qualified majority(+65% in the EU for example), there's a sizable portion that isn't Russian ethnic and likely don't want to join with Russia, they shouldn't be ignored only because they're a few percentages short. Not to mention if all it would take to steal portions of countries is to have a majority in population that would just create fear and distrust among countries, immigration would suffer a lot.

[QUOTE=Rowtree;44253913]Ignorance is Strength.[/QUOTE] War is Peace also really comes to mind in the whole of this situation.

This whole situation terrifies me.

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;44253420]I would argue that this applies to all nationalism, period.[/QUOTE] Political reasons, self-determination, etc. Are all good reasons for "Nationalism" (In the sense of Independence movements) - If the people feel that their democratic will can be better served by going it alone, then they should have that right, that's democracy. This, however, is not that. This is a Russian landgrab based on a shady as hell veneer of democratic respectability. (What's the bet that the vote will go 100% for Independence, despite the ethnic Tatars and Ukrainians voting against come the Referendum?)

[quote]Few here doubt the outcome. Russians make up just under 60 percent of the region's population of two million. Ukrainians comprise another 24 percent, while the Crimean Tatars, the people who have the oldest historical claim to the peninsula, account for another 12 percent. Members of the Ukrainian and Tatar communities have said that they won't take part in the referendum. [b]Yet many told me that their internal passports, which serve as basic identification documents, have been taken away by people posing as officials who claimed to be updating electoral voter lists. Without their passports, these voters won't be able to participate in the referendum anyway.[/b] [/quote] "Want see magic trick?" "Sure." - "Wait, where's my passport?" "What passport?"

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;44253850]If a portion of a country with a significant ethnic population that perceives itself as their ethnicity first and the country they're living in second, are presented with an opportunity to join with (or form) a country that bests represents their heritage and interests, why shouldn't they?[/QUOTE] Maybe because a large section of people evidently don't want it since there are protests, let's not forget the part where people are having their passports taken from them. This isn't a calm and rational debate, this is a straight up knee jerk reaction and the Russians are pouring fuel on the fire by the gallon.

[QUOTE=Craigewan;44254985]Political reasons, self-determination, etc. Are all good reasons for "Nationalism" (In the sense of Independence movements) - If the people feel that their democratic will can be better served by going it alone, then they should have that right, that's democracy. This, however, is not that. This is a Russian landgrab based on a shady as hell veneer of democratic respectability. (What's the bet that the vote will go 100% for Independence, despite the ethnic Tatars and Ukrainians voting against come the Referendum?)[/QUOTE] "If people feel that their democratic will can be better served by going it alone" isn't democracy or democratic at all, it's literally anarchy. Just with arbitrary clumps instead of individuals - you could iterate your statement for smaller and smaller groups tho until you end at individuals so you have to see that it's nonsense. It doesn't help democracy at all, it literally prevents or at least obscures it.

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;44255515]"Want see magic trick?" "Sure." - "Wait, where's my passport?" "What passport?"[/QUOTE] and this is why no one in the international community is going to recognize Crimean authority on this decision. except Russia of course.

Naddniestriev all over again