I didn't really like FO:NV story line.
So I guess this is an opinion article.
One thing I dislike both about FO3 and FO4 is that they both revolve around your family. A weird, weird family that is just assigned to you. It's not your real family. You feel zero attachment.
NV I really liked because you get shot in the head by this smug fucker right off the bat. You don't need to know anything else. You get back on your feet and he's one dead sunovabitch. It's as purely personal as it gets.
And finally some big site is being even slightly critical of FO4.
One thing that I'm hoping so far is that there isn't flat-out good/bad factions like FO3 did with the Enclave and DC BoS.
[sp]I've barely scratched the surface with Danse and hoped that this sect of the BoS was akin to the west coast sect. Conversely, I hope the Institute is just as morally ambiguous as my perception of the BoS (I haven't meant any Institute scientists, just a few rogue Synths).[/sp]
Needless to say I don't mind a few straightforward do-gooders or straightforward assholes ([sp]i.e. Minutemen and Raiders akin to the Followers and Fiends respectively[/sp]), but I don't want all my factions to be completely polarized on either side of the morality spectrum.
[QUOTE=LoneWolf_Recon;49108837]One thing that I'm hoping so far is that there isn't flat-out good/bad factions like FO3 did with the Enclave and DC BoS.
[sp]I've barely scratched the surface with Danse and hoped that this sect of the BoS was akin to the west coast sect. Conversely, I hope the Institute is just as morally ambiguous as my perception of the BoS (I haven't meant any Institute scientists, just a few rogue Synths).[/sp]
Needless to say I don't mind a few straightforward do-gooders or straightforward assholes ([sp]i.e. Minutemen and Raiders akin to the Followers and Fiends respectively[/sp]), but I don't want all my factions to be completely polarized on either side of the morality spectrum.[/QUOTE]
All I can say is: prepare to be surprised.
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;49108784]I didn't really like FO:NV story line.
So I guess this is an opinion article.[/QUOTE]
That would depend whether you're talking about it in terms of content, concept or execution.
You can dislike a story's actual content but still respect how it was structured in concept and how well that concept was executed - you're just not interested in the kind of story they were trying to tell or you're not someone that's very impressed by production value. That's the category where opinion matters the most from what I can tell.
You can dislike a story's concept, but it might be a cheesy guilty pleasure for you personally anyway and there's definitely technical skill behind the whole thing - but if you were a critic and were trying to look at it more objectively in a wider context than your personal satisfaction, you'd probably give it a score lower than you'd rate your actual enjoyment.
You can dislike a story's production value or lack thereof, but somewhere in there is a really neat idea that just couldn't fully be brought fourth because of a lack of budget, deadlines, executive meddling, or a general lack of skill on the execution side of things (hiring a terrible third party for CGI for example).
So it's completely possible that New Vegas' story line just left you unengaged because you found it boring concept-wise, but the article's talking about executive design decisions like the game world not being as reactive to unconventional player behavior (e.g. being sarcastic 24/7 to a character doesn't stop them from treating you as a straight-played beloved heroic idol, making your roleplaying/attitude seem inconsequential).
[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;49108869]That would depend whether you're talking about it in terms of content, concept or execution.
You can dislike a story's actual content but still respect how it was structured in concept and how well that concept was executed - you're just not interested in the kind of story they were trying to tell or you're not someone that's very impressed by production value. That's the category where opinion matters the most from what I can tell.
You can dislike a story's concept, but it might be a cheesy guilty pleasure for you personally anyway and there's definitely technical skill behind the whole thing - but if you were a critic and were trying to look at it more objectively in a wider context than your personal satisfaction, you'd probably give it a score lower than you'd rate your actual enjoyment.
You can dislike a story's production value or lack thereof, but somewhere in there is a really neat idea that just couldn't fully be brought fourth because of a lack of budget, deadlines, executive meddling, or a general lack of skill on the execution side of things (hiring a terrible third party for CGI for example).
So it's completely possible that New Vegas' story line just left you unengaged because you found it boring concept-wise, but the article's talking about executive design decisions like the game world not being as reactive to unconventional player behavior (e.g. being sarcastic 24/7 to a character doesn't stop them from treating you as a straight-played beloved heroic idol, making your roleplaying/attitude seem inconsequential).[/QUOTE]
Pretty much, I would say I fall under the category of being unimpressed with the concept. I actually got bored of the main story line a quarter of the way through. Eventually I forced myself to complete it. The concept just wasn't my cup of tea.
Execution wise, it was fine. I still have yet to make an opinion about FO4, but from what I've learned so far, it seems more engaging for me, regardless of the restriction of personal choice. Which I do indeed acknowledge here.
At least now that Fallout 4 is out now we can wait Obsidian to do "New Vegas 2"
[QUOTE=Combine 177;49108937]At least now that Fallout 4 is out now we can wait Obsidian to do "New Vegas 2"[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty certain Obsidian won't be able to touch fallout again after that metacritic bonus thing from New Vegas not being reviewed high enough, but I do hope they get another chance with the F4 assets.
Isn't obsidian like overloaded with projects right now anyways?
Fallout New New Orleans plz
[QUOTE=Drury;49108822]One thing I dislike both about FO3 and FO4 is that they both revolve around your family. A weird, weird family that is just assigned to you. It's not your real family. You feel zero attachment.
NV I really liked because you get shot in the head by this smug fucker right off the bat. You don't need to know anything else. You get back on your feet and he's one dead sunovabitch. It's as purely personal as it gets.[/QUOTE]
See I see it as the exact opposite. Didn't give a toss about NV because it was just some random event I didn't even experience and some guy I didn't even see. I did not feel compelled at all to find the guy, I didn't even finish the main quest in NV. Some guy just telling me "oh yeah this happened to you isn't that crazy" doesn't really make me want to find out more because you literally don't experience the event at all!
But fallout 3, you get to experience growing up in a secluded environment with your dad (and he's your dad so automatically you project feelings of your own family there), and then it all goes to shit and you are pushed out into this desolate world and you are trying to find the only person who had any meaning to you. It's a story of trying to find something you lost, which to me is a stronger motivation than revenge. Eventually the story got to be dumb but the initial concept was very powerful to me.
Yeah my only thing I really dislike about Fallout 4's story is how it tries so hard to give your character an identity, but also let you control a lot of who they are, too. The whole intro with "Hey, you've got a wife and kids, but wait it all changes in 5 minutes" was honestly too rapid-fire for me to really care about any of it.
[QUOTE=Kite_shugo;49108953]I'm pretty certain Obsidian won't be able to touch fallout again after that metacritic bonus thing from New Vegas not being reviewed high enough, but I do hope they get another chance with the F4 assets.
Isn't obsidian like overloaded with projects right now anyways?[/QUOTE]
Why do people keep talking about that Metacritic thing like it's some bad area for the companies and like Bethesda somehow cheated Obsidian out of their money.
They had a contract, they both followed that contract to the letter. There's no drama there, they're companies, don't personify them and make it seem like Obsidian can somehow be angry at Bethesda that they didn't get their money. A company is a thing, they don't have emotions.
Obsidian wants to make another Fallout game, and Bethesda, or at least Todd Howard, say they want Obisdian to make another Fallout game.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;49109013]Yeah my only thing I really dislike about Fallout 4's story is how it tries so hard to give your character an identity, but also let you control a lot of who they are, too. The whole intro with "Hey, you've got a wife and kids, but wait it all changes in 5 minutes" was honestly too rapid-fire for me to really care about any of it.[/QUOTE]
Yeah that sounds lame. The FO3 intro was a bit long, but necessary for character development. With giving you a wife and kid they need to give you more time to actually feel anything for them
[QUOTE=l337k1ll4;49109023][B]Why do people keep talking about that Metacritic thing like it's some bad area for the companies and like Bethesda somehow cheated Obsidian out of their money.[/b]
They had a contract, they both followed that contract to the letter. There's no drama there, they're companies, don't personify them and make it seem like Obsidian can somehow be angry at Bethesda that they didn't get their money. A company is a thing, they don't have emotions.
[B]Obsidian wants to make another Fallout game, and Bethesda, or at least Todd Howard, say they want Obisdian to make another Fallout game[/B][/QUOTE]
Where did I say "Bethesda cheated Obsidian out of their money"? I was just referring to that incident and the effects in had on the devs. I don't recall them being happy about it even it is just a liability of a "contract". I just feel like I remember some sort of problem between Bethesda and Obsidian over New Vegas that wasn't the metacritic thing? My memory may be failing me on that end.
Can you source that last part? I'd be pretty happy to read it
[QUOTE=Trogdon;49108990]See I see it as the exact opposite. Didn't give a toss about NV because it was just some random event I didn't even experience and some guy I didn't even see. I did not feel compelled at all to find the guy, I didn't even finish the main quest in NV. Some guy just telling me "oh yeah this happened to you isn't that crazy" doesn't really make me want to find out more because you literally don't experience the event at all!
[/QUOTE]
Okay but finding Benny and exacting revenge isn't even the main plot. It just draws you into the grander scheme of things. The real story is deciding who gets control of Hoover Dam, and by extension the Mojave. It's up to your character how that happens
[QUOTE=Trogdon;49108990]See I see it as the exact opposite. Didn't give a toss about NV because it was just some random event I didn't even experience and some guy I didn't even see. I did not feel compelled at all to find the guy, I didn't even finish the main quest in NV. Some guy just telling me "oh yeah this happened to you isn't that crazy" doesn't really make me want to find out more because you literally don't experience the event at all!
But fallout 3, you get to experience growing up in a secluded environment with your dad (and he's your dad so automatically you project feelings of your own family there), and then it all goes to shit and you are pushed out into this desolate world and you are trying to find the only person who had any meaning to you. It's a story of trying to find something you lost, which to me is a stronger motivation than revenge. Eventually the story got to be dumb but the initial concept was very powerful to me.[/QUOTE]
the starting concept of Fo3 was stronger but the writing and presentation drags it down. sure he's your dad but he doesn't really do that much for you or come across as overly personal, like there's not a ton of insight or depth to his or your life despite all the starting vignettes, there's not much character there beyond "good guy scientist dad". he doesn't have a lot of vulnerabilities or quirks or characterization in general, which makes him seem like a robot no different from every other NPC.
it's the exact opposite of NV, which starts off flaccid and impersonal but gradually sets a feeling for the character you're becoming, this bad dude built without a kill switch or anything better to do than search and destroy and interfere with everything. you're playing as a character but you're still quintessentially YOU, and that's the way RPG's should be.
[QUOTE=Kite_shugo;49109095]Where did I say "Bethesda cheated Obsidian out of their money"? I was just referring to that incident and the effects in had on the devs. I don't recall them being happy about it even it is just a liability of a "contract". I just feel like I remember some sort of problem between Bethesda and Obsidian over New Vegas that wasn't the metacritic thing? My memory may be failing me on that end.
Can you source that last part? I'd be pretty happy to read it[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/02/12/and-heres-obsidians-idea-for-fallout-new-vegas-2/#more-141816n"]Near the end.[/URL]
And sorry, I wasn't talking to you specifically with the "cheated out of their money thing" just kind of in general when talking about this whole ordeal people have this weird habit of pretending that Beth and Obsidian are people and have emotions. Just the fact that articles were written about that whole thing when the headlines were basically "Companies sign contract, follow contract to the letter," and people were like outraged that Obsidian didn't get their bonus and imagined some kind of bad blood that just doesn't exist because they're companies.
[QUOTE=Trogdon;49108990]See I see it as the exact opposite. Didn't give a toss about NV because it was just some random event I didn't even experience and some guy I didn't even see. I did not feel compelled at all to find the guy, I didn't even finish the main quest in NV. Some guy just telling me "oh yeah this happened to you isn't that crazy" doesn't really make me want to find out more because you literally don't experience the event at all!
But fallout 3, you get to experience growing up in a secluded environment with your dad (and he's your dad so automatically you project feelings of your own family there), and then it all goes to shit and you are pushed out into this desolate world and you are trying to find the only person who had any meaning to you. It's a story of trying to find something you lost, which to me is a stronger motivation than revenge. Eventually the story got to be dumb but the initial concept was very powerful to me.[/QUOTE]
i think it's more annoying in fo4 cause you literally have 0 attachment to the baby. you spend even less time with him than the 10 minutes you spent with liam neeson before he bails on you
i didn't really care too much about benny in nv but i liked the world and the factions, so it was more immersive and enjoyable to explore. fo4 really took out a lot of the roleplaying with a forced background (even more so than 3 and nv) and voice acted dialouge choices which consist of WHERE'S MY SON and SHAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNN
[QUOTE=Trogdon;49108990]See I see it as the exact opposite. Didn't give a toss about NV because it was just some random event I didn't even experience and some guy I didn't even see. I did not feel compelled at all to find the guy, I didn't even finish the main quest in NV. Some guy just telling me "oh yeah this happened to you isn't that crazy" doesn't really make me want to find out more because you literally don't experience the event at all![/QUOTE]
Didn't you see the opening cinematic?
[QUOTE=Jund;49109577]i think it's more annoying in fo4 cause you literally have 0 attachment to the baby. you spend even less time with him than the 10 minutes you spent with liam neeson before he bails on you
i didn't really care too much about benny in nv but i liked the world and the factions, so it was more immersive and enjoyable to explore. fo4 really took out a lot of the roleplaying with a forced background (even more so than 3 and nv) and voice acted dialouge choices which consist of WHERE'S MY SON and SHAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNN[/QUOTE]
it's pretty much impossible to make you feel attached to a character like a baby... it's not like they're going to have you spend hours in-game with a baby so you feel attached.
okay that is fair
but New Vegas's everything else fails where Fallout 4 doesn't so
[QUOTE=General J;49110029]okay that is fair
but New Vegas's everything else fails where Fallout 4 doesn't so[/QUOTE]
Not sure on the disagrees for this. While NV's writing and quests are superb (ignoring the ill-fated Legion MQ), FO4 is a significant upgrade all the other areas that I can think of. If you gave NV and FO4 the same story and map then FO4 would probably be the better game.
[editline]13th November 2015[/editline]
On Fo3 and NV's story: I personally never understood why people judge the stories so heavily on the 'motivation' aspect. I didn't really care about Dad, and I sure as hell wasn't fumed about Benny either.
I always felt that the 'motive' in stories was always pretty bod standard, something to give the character motivation but not the player or the audience. If I'm being told a story I want to hear the end of it //if it's interesting//, if I play the main story it's because it's the main story. Few narratives ever make me feel like I need to kill the bad guy, or get home, or save the princess. I just do it because I want to experience the journey, which just so happens to require a start and an end.
But even thought I didn't care about seeking revenge on Benny or wanting to get my virtual Dad back, I still found NV's story more complex and more interesting with its various factions, their leaders, and their ideologies. And I think NV realizes this. Benny just isn't the main focus of the story, he's hardly even the climax. He's not the villain, he's just the catalyst for the character to get into a much larger story. FO3 was just less interesting in comparison with Project Purity and the Enclave.
Just my 2 cents.
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;49108784]I didn't really like FO:NV story line.
So I guess this is an opinion article.[/QUOTE]
Are we supposed to gather something from the fact that it's an opinion article?
[QUOTE=Kite_shugo;49108953]I'm pretty certain Obsidian won't be able to touch fallout again after that metacritic bonus thing from New Vegas not being reviewed high enough, but I do hope they get another chance with the F4 assets.
Isn't obsidian like overloaded with projects right now anyways?[/QUOTE]
Not so, Obsidian President said they'd love to do another Fallout game with Beth in a 2013 interview.
[editline]13th November 2015[/editline]
That said I feel, while I agree that New Vegas def had some better writing going into it, that New Vegas is getting dick sucked too much. Like I don't mind people criticizing and pointing out the flaws of a game, but I am tired of folks basically going "CHALK UP ANOTHER FAIL ON BETHFAILSDA!".
I mean they worked their butts of and got the right people to finally make the gameplay smooth and delicious, I'll give Beth credit for that and for having a dedicated work team and a leader that at least shows more legit excitement and hope for his own projects than other robots in this industry.
I did spoil myself to the ending of Fallout 4 because of curiosity, and I will say it's NOTHING like Fallout 3's ending at all. They did improve the quality of the story from Fallout 3, but I haven't seen alot of the main plot to say it's da best.
[QUOTE=Combine 177;49108937]At least now that Fallout 4 is out now we can wait Obsidian to do "New Vegas 2"[/QUOTE]
"Newer Vegas"
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49110532]I did spoil myself to the ending of Fallout 4 because of curiosity, and I will say it's NOTHING like Fallout 3's ending at all. They did improve the quality of the story from Fallout 3, but I haven't seen alot of the main plot to say it's da best.[/QUOTE]
Fallout 3 story is actually somewhat good if you know the beginning and the ending. Your dad left the vault to help build a machine to give everyone in the capital wasteland, which is understandably the most radioactive place on the planet, rad-free water, but you know none of that so you have to find out and it makes for a nice setup and shit. It's just that the actual tale makes no fucking sense.
I have no idea about Fallout 4 but I'd hazard guessing Bethesda got better. Still, [sp]when the announcement trailer came out, a fan theory about the main villain of the game sprung up which turned out to be 100% true - and that was before we knew what happened at the vault, mind you. There is not a single Fallout game with such hardcore foreshadowing, they all had a nice scheme going on where at first you think you're doing it for a humble yet noble cause, and then you end up saving the world or helping destroying it all over again, but there is no way for you to know at first. Now Fallout 4 kind of does that too but there's the part where "your son who's been out there for quite a few years after being taken away from YOUR DEFENSELESS PARTNER by some people who KILLED THEM WITHOUT A TWITCH definitely isn't DEVIL INCARNATE AT THIS POINT, no no no. Now go look for him because he's your son." Even if you manage to gloss over that, you have plenty of time to realize by the end of the game and I just can't imagine the ending being any surprise to anyone.[/sp]
I'm really willing to bet the Synth vs Human storyline or whatever that's obviously going to be present is going to take a great concept of the moral questions of real artificial intelligence and the limits we as humans can impose on them and all this theorycrafting and instead take the route of "Racism = bad mmk"
I like that they're trying to tell a story about a man and his struggle in the wastes but imho I don't really feel a connection to the thing that popped out of a woman that literally is in the game for like 5 minutes just because my character jizzed in her and watched her get shot (Not really a spoiler, it happens in under the first 10 minutes of the story. You have 0 chance to grow any emotional attachment)
I really understand where they're coming from and I like that they're trying to tell a story, and hell, I've been enjoying everything about the plot so far about this man who is me... but... isn't me? but who gives a fuck about Shaun or Nora. [sp]just because he has my characters ginger hair means nothing to me[/sp]
the story would be way better if you actually interacted with your 'family'
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