GOP Official: Voters don't choose the nominee, we do - Polidicks

[quote]"The media has created the perception that the voters choose the nomination. That's the conflict here," Curly Haugland, an unbound GOP delegate from North Dakota, told CNBC's "[URL="http://www.cnbc.com/squawk-box-us/"]Squawk Box[/URL]" on Wednesday. He even questioned why primaries and caucuses are held. "The rules haven't kept up," Haugland said. "The rules are still designed to have a political party choose its nominee at a convention. That's just the way it is. I can't help it. Don't hate me because I love the rules." ... Emineth, also a former chairman of the North Dakota Republican Party, told "Squawk Box" in the same interview that [B]he's concerned about party officials pulling "some shenanigan." [/B] "It's important that the Republican National Committee has transparency on what they're doing [on the rules] going into the convention and what happens in the convention," he continued. That's because of "all the votes that have been cast in caucuses and primaries. [B]Don't disenfranchise those voters.[/B] Because at the end of the day, our goal is to beat [URL="http://www.cnbc.com/hillary-clinton/"]Hillary Clinton[/URL] or whoever their [Democratic] nominee is in November." [B]Emineth said he's worried that frustration would discourage Americans in the general election from voting Republican.[/B][/quote] [URL]http://www.cnbc.com/2016/03/16/we-choose-the-nominee-not-the-voters-senior-gop-official.html[/URL] The GOP obviously doesn't like Trump, but he's playing the political game and [I]beating [/I]all of the GOP's preferred candidates. If Trump is the preferred choice by voters, then he should be the Republican nominee in a democratic system. HOWEVER, democratic elections are for government positions, and the GOP is not a governmental body, they are a political party, so they can technically pick whoever they want. Here's the conflict: the only [I]realistic[/I] way to win a modern U.S. election is to have the support of one of the major two parties. If Trump garners the delegates in the primaries, which is based on general votes, and doesn't win the nomination, then the whole democratic process is called into question.

Representative democracy kind of fucking falls apart when it's used to govern >300 million people. Unfortunately it's also the best thing we know that isn't hopefully-benevolent tyranny.

Technically primary voters can't be disenfranchised since their vote has no actual say who will be the nominee.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;49963439]Representative democracy kind of fucking falls apart when it's used to govern >300 million people. Unfortunately it's also the best thing we know that isn't hopefully-benevolent tyranny.[/QUOTE] Ideally all citizens would be able to vote via the internet; phones, public libraries, governmental vote-via-phone-texting service. All in addition to physical voting centers, of course.

I don't give a shit how close to pseudo-democratic dictatorship level 'approved candidates' we get with this, fucking get Trump out of the race. In this case I will 100% support any level of government or organization flat out banning Trump from running for president, be it the GOP's officials, the senate, the house, whoever and whatever. Get this thing out of the running.

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;49963458]I don't give a shit how close to pseudo-democratic dictatorship level 'approved candidates' we get with this, fucking get Trump out of the race. In this case I will 100% support any level of government or organization flat out banning Trump from running for president, be it the GOP's officials, the senate, the house, whoever and whatever. Get this thing out of the running.[/QUOTE] How can you reconcile supporting dictatorship tactics? How would you feel if a party you didn't like used that sort of tactic on the party you support?

[QUOTE=bitches;49963457]Ideally all citizens would be able to vote via the internet; phones, public libraries, governmental vote-via-phone-texting service. All in addition to physical voting centers, of course.[/QUOTE] no nope 1000 times nooooo

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;49963458]I don't give a shit how close to pseudo-democratic dictatorship level 'approved candidates' we get with this, fucking get Trump out of the race. In this case I will 100% support any level of government or organization flat out banning Trump from running for president, be it the GOP's officials, the senate, the house, whoever and whatever. Get this thing out of the running.[/QUOTE] Smell that? that's fascism

[QUOTE=Thlis;49963461]How can you reconcile supporting dictatorship tactics? How would you feel if a party you didn't like used that sort of tactic on the party you support?[/QUOTE] I said [i]in this case[/i] Trump is by no means at all fit for presidency. He's using the same exact tactics that Hitler used during his rise to power to whip the working class in America into a frenzied hatred of the WRONG groups of people when their anger should be directed up towards the government itself and the corporations holding them down. It's not just classic Weimar Republic tactics but also classic classist diversionary tactics used by corporate bigwigs. Keep the working class fighting over the crumbs so they don't realize you're sitting in the corner of the room with the entire cake stuffing your face. He NEEDS to be stopped. People don't realize what the fuck is going on. I never thought it'd happen but we forgot history and forgot what happened in post WWI Germany. If we leave it up to the people to realize they're fucking up, Trump will be in a 2nd term.

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;49963458]I don't give a shit how close to pseudo-democratic dictatorship level 'approved candidates' we get with this, fucking get Trump out of the race. In this case I will 100% support any level of government or organization flat out banning Trump from running for president, be it the GOP's officials, the senate, the house, whoever and whatever. Get this thing out of the running.[/QUOTE] You sound like the CIA trying to overthrow a South American leader because their interests don't align with ours. Are you willing to overthrow an entire system of government because it would put someone you disagree with in power?

[QUOTE=Laferio;49963465]Smell that? that's fascism[/QUOTE] No. Fascism is what Trump is selling and somehow getting the majority of working class to eat out of his hands like starving cattle. [editline]19th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;49963474]You sound like the CIA trying to overthrow a South American leader because their interests don't align with ours. Are you willing to overthrow an entire system of government because it would put someone you disagree with in power?[/QUOTE] Our entire system of government needs an overhaul regardless of the outcome of this election. If the GOP forcing Trump out of the running sparks that necessary overhaul then I'm all for it. Even then just removing him from the running is good enough. He is a MASSIVE threat to the stability of our country. There is no way in hell he will do any good for this nation, none whatsoever.

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;49963476]No. Fascism is what Trump is selling and somehow getting the majority of working class to eat out of his hands like starving cattle. [editline]19th March 2016[/editline] Our entire system of government needs an overhaul regardless of the outcome of this election. If the GOP forcing Trump out of the running sparks that necessary overhaul then I'm all for it. Even then just removing him from the running is good enough. He is a MASSIVE threat to the stability of our country. There is no way in hell he will do any good for this nation, none whatsoever.[/QUOTE] I just find it incredibly ironic that you're against fascist tactics while supporting... fascist tactics.

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;49963472]I said [i]in this case[/i][/QUOTE] It doesn't matter; it's either you support such an action or you don't, period.

[QUOTE=DaMastez;49963485]It doesn't matter; it's either you support such an action or you don't, period.[/QUOTE] The world is not black and white as you are trying to paint it. I support such an action when there is no clearer alternative course to preventing what will assuredly be the complete destabilization of our nation. I hate Hillary with a passion too. I think she's a god awful human being and also a terrible choice for president. Am I advocating the Democratic committee kick her out of the running? No. I'm not. Am I saying it should be commonplace? No. I'm not. I'm saying for Donald Trump, it should be at least heavily considered that he be blocked from running for president.

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;49963472]I said [i]in this case[/i] Trump is by no means at all fit for presidency. He's using the same exact tactics that Hitler used during his rise to power to whip the working class in America into a frenzied hatred of the WRONG groups of people when their anger should be directed up towards the government itself and the corporations holding them down. It's not just classic Weimar Republic tactics but also classic classist diversionary tactics used by corporate bigwigs. Keep the working class fighting over the crumbs so they don't realize you're sitting in the corner of the room with the entire cake stuffing your face. He NEEDS to be stopped. People don't realize what the fuck is going on. I never thought it'd happen but we forgot history and forgot what happened in post WWI Germany. If we leave it up to the people to realize they're fucking up, Trump will be in a 2nd term.[/QUOTE] America is nowhere near the level of fucked that Germany was post WW1

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;49963472]I said [i]in this case[/i] Trump is by no means at all fit for presidency. He's using the same exact tactics that Hitler used during his rise to power to whip the working class in America into a frenzied hatred of the WRONG groups of people when their anger should be directed up towards the government itself and the corporations holding them down. It's not just classic Weimar Republic tactics but also classic classist diversionary tactics used by corporate bigwigs. Keep the working class fighting over the crumbs so they don't realize you're sitting in the corner of the room with the entire cake stuffing your face. He NEEDS to be stopped. People don't realize what the fuck is going on. I never thought it'd happen but we forgot history and forgot what happened in post WWI Germany. If we leave it up to the people to realize they're fucking up, Trump will be in a 2nd term.[/QUOTE] Trump is attacking the government, that's why he has so much support. Here's the thing: even if Trump is elected, his maximum service is 8 years, and there's a system of checks and balances in government so each branch is limited. Additionally, there's different means of getting a president out of office during their own term for a variety of reasons. Additionally: If people elect Trump and he fucks everything up, people have the right in a democratic society to allow it.

[QUOTE=Laferio;49963465]Smell that? that's fascism[/QUOTE] Lesser level of fascism to remove a higher level of fascism

[QUOTE=Laferio;49963484]I just find it incredibly ironic that you're against fascist tactics while supporting... fascist tactics.[/QUOTE] Which would you prefer, Laferio? Setting a precedent that someone wholly unqualified to be president be blocked from running despite a popular backing based on racist and classist sentiment, or Donald Trump as President of the United States? Because it's looking like those are the only two options at this point. Trump is picking up a huge wave of momentum. The GOP has already shown that none of their other candidates can stop him. And if it comes down to Trump v Hillary or Trump v Sanders, I don't have much faith that either of the Democratic candidates can beat him.

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;49963472]I said [I]in this case[/I] [/QUOTE] You don't get to fucking say [I]in this case[/I] You are supporting a fascist tactic because you disagree with him. And I bet if someone said the same thing about Bernie Sander's you would be wailing on and on about your oppression and the awful fascists. [QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;49963500]Which would you prefer, Laferio? Setting a precedent that someone wholly unqualified to be president be blocked from running despite a popular backing based on racist and classist sentiment, or Donald Trump as President of the United States? Because it's looking like those are the only two options at this point. Trump is picking up a huge wave of momentum. The GOP has already shown that none of their other candidates can stop him. And if it comes down to Trump v Hillary or Trump v Sanders, I don't have much faith that either of the Democratic candidates can beat him.[/QUOTE] I would prefer the precedent that didn't lead to the fucking dictatorship that you are blindly cheering for.

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;49963500]Which would you prefer, Laferio? Setting a precedent that someone wholly unqualified to be president be blocked from running despite a popular backing based on racist and classist sentiment, or Donald Trump as President of the United States? Because it's looking like those are the only two options at this point. Trump is picking up a huge wave of momentum. The GOP has already shown that none of their other candidates can stop him. And if it comes down to Trump v Hillary or Trump v Sanders, I don't have much faith that either of the Democratic candidates can beat him.[/QUOTE] Qualifications for running for presidency: [quote=US Constitution] [B]Qualifications for the Office of President [I]Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1[/I][/B] No person except a [U]natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States,[/U] at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the[U] age of thirty-five years,[/U] and been[U] fourteen years a resident within the United States.[/U] [/quote] Trump (like many Americans) meets this criteria, he is qualified to run. You can't make an exception for him because you disagree with him.

[QUOTE=Killer900;49963494]America is nowhere near the level of fucked that Germany was post WW1[/QUOTE] It may not be as fucked up as Post WWI Germany but it's definitely not doing as great as a lot of the other 1st world nations. [editline]19th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;49963512]Qualifications for running for presidency: Trump (like most Americans) meets this criteria, he is qualified to run. You can't make an exception for him because you disagree with him.[/QUOTE] Trump meets the technical criteria, yes. That doesn't make him a fit president. That doesn't make him a good choice. He is an EXTREMELY BAD choice. He will fuck this country over

[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;49963495]Trump is attacking the government, that's why he has so much support. Here's the thing: even if Trump is elected, his maximum service is 8 years, and there's a system of checks and balances in government so each branch is limited. Additionally, there's different means of getting a president out of office during their own term for a variety of reasons. Additionally: If people elect Trump and he fucks everything up, people have the right in a democratic society to allow it.[/QUOTE] Trump can't really do too much damage anyway. Atop the checks and balances already in place, we also have Congress' annoyingly on occasion useful habit of cockblocking the president's every move. It's bad most days, because a decent president can't really get anything done, but when we get a total shitlord in the Oval Office that brick wall becomes our most irreplaceable asset. That brick wall basically means his damage is limited to spouting off and saying really stupid shit. He won't actually be able to [i]do[/i] any of it. He vetos a bill? No bigs Congress was gonna override that veto anyway. He suggests a bill? It goes nowhere, they'll never agree on it enough to actually get it passed and back to his desk.

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;49963514] Trump meets the technical criteria, yes. That doesn't make him a fit president. That doesn't make him a good choice. He is an EXTREMELY BAD choice. He will fuck this country over[/QUOTE] That is not your choice, it is the choice of the public as a whole. That is not justification for banning politicians that you disagree with. It is frankly hillarious that in your haste to draw parallels to how Trump will turn the country into Nazi Germany, you are arguing for the banning of political parties you consider disagreeable.

[QUOTE=Thlis;49963526]That is not your choice, it is the choice of the public as a whole. That is not justification for banning politicians that you disagree with.[/QUOTE] The general public is not always right. They are being manipulated by his rhetoric. Whipped into a frenzy and made to hate and blame the wrong people for the current state of our nation and world. They are not thinking properly, they're voting with their hatred and fear. The same thing happened on a much worse scale in the Weimar Republic when Hitler was allowed to take power and begin his horrid machinations against the 'enemies of the state', the same people he whipped into a frenzy against (the jews, the gays, the immigrants) to win his seat of power. The Weimar Republic was not THAT different from America's democracy. It obviously had more parties and was on a smaller scale, but look what it got turned into.

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;49963514]It may not be as fucked up as Post WWI Germany but it's definitely not doing as great as a lot of the other 1st world nations. [editline]19th March 2016[/editline] Trump meets the technical criteria, yes. That doesn't make him a fit president. That doesn't make him a good choice. He is an EXTREMELY BAD choice. He will fuck this country over[/QUOTE] People say the same things you say every election cycle. If you don't want him to become president then vote for who you do want to become president instead. If you are so inclined, you can even help your candidate campaign so they can earn more votes to compete with who you don't want to win. If you don't like the democratic system you should enter a career in law and policy so you can morph to be more appropriate for the modern age while still aligning with the Constitution.

[QUOTE=Thlis;49963526] It is frankly hillarious that in your haste to draw parallels to how Trump will turn the country into Nazi Germany, you are arguing for the banning of political parties you consider disagreeable.[/QUOTE] Where the hell do you see me calling for a banning of political parties? Now you're flat out putting words in my mouth. I NEVER said we should ban a PARTY from running or nominating candidates I'm saying DONALD TRUMP should be barred from running.

[QUOTE=TestECull;49963520]Trump can't really do too much damage anyway. Atop the checks and balances already in place, we also have Congress' annoyingly on occasion useful habit of cockblocking the president's every move. It's bad most days, because a decent president can't really get anything done, but when we get a total shitlord in the Oval Office that brick wall becomes our most irreplaceable asset. That brick wall basically means his damage is limited to spouting off and saying really stupid shit. He won't actually be able to [i]do[/i] any of it. He vetos a bill? No bigs Congress was gonna override that veto anyway. He suggests a bill? It goes nowhere, they'll never agree on it enough to actually get it passed and back to his desk.[/QUOTE] executive order 9066

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;49963545][B]The general public is not always right.[/B] They are being manipulated by his rhetoric. [/QUOTE] And your solution is to outright take the decision out of the hands of the people that will be affected. How can you not see that you are advocating for a fascist state?

[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;49963547]People say the same things you say every election cycle. If you don't want him to become president then vote for who you do want to become president instead. If you are so inclined, you can even help your candidate campaign so they can earn more votes to compete with who you don't want to win. If you don't like the democratic system you should enter a career in law and policy so you can morph to be more appropriate for the modern age while still aligning with the Constitution.[/QUOTE] You think I'm not doing that too? There's not much of a choice. I'm a registered Republican so I can't vote in the Democratic primary to encourage Bernie over Hillary. Cruz and Kaisch have no chance of winning over Trump, Jeb and Rubio already dropped out of the race. At this point if it comes down to it I will flat out just vote against Trump but like I said earlier I doubt that he'll lose if he gets to the presidential election. He's gained too much momentum.

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;49963545][B]The general public is not always right. [/B][/QUOTE] This is obvious. Democracy is a flawed system but there aren't any other alternative systems of government people are willing to adopt or fight to put in place in the modern age. You either accept it and try to work around/through it or try to overthrow it and instill a new system, in which case you will make a lot of enemies.